My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

[JV Puleo]

While I'm waiting on some bits for the grinder I milled the spacer block down...if I'd used the grinder I'd have been at it all day.

 

 

Then went to work on an internal grinding extension for 3/8" ID wheels. The wheels come with a 3/8 and 1/4 ID. I have the 1/4" extension but it is suggested that the wheel should be between 2/3 and 3/4 the size of the hole being ground. For that I need the 3" wheel - the largest this grinder is designed to handle. Starting with a piece of 3/4 hex, I drilled it for a 3/8-24 thread and then counterbored it to 3/8" so it will thread onto the spindle of the grinder.

 

 

After it was threaded I mounted it on a piece of 3/4-24 threaded rod...

 

 

And turned mot of it to 5/8"

 

 

Then it was a matter of calculating the exact length of the threaded rod and inserting it, in this case secured with Locktite. This isn't under a great deal of stress when working - balance is far more important so I'm hoping that if it is slightly out I can compensate when I dress the wheel on the machine.

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

 

 

I wasn't sure what to do today...everything seems to be held up waiting for bits & pieces. But, if I am going to do the bearings in the rear hubs I need to take the other one out of it's wheel...keeping in mind that these were not designed to be taken apart. The ends of the bolts are peened to lock them in the nuts.

 

 

 

I cut the nuts off with a torch the last time but in doing so I damaged the drum - not seriously but I hate doing things like that. This time I used a grinder I inherited from my late cousin...

 

 

It was a grubby job but went smoothly...

 

 

Since this has never been apart...I first thought that the drums had been painted black. I now think the entire unit was painted after it was assembled and the black is a primer.

 

 

Since the center of the wheel, under the metal plate shows no sign of ever having been painted. I also discovered another Mitchell piece of quality workmanship...they must have drilled the holes in the wheels with the hub and plates in place - and didn't line it up properly. The holes in the hub are off. Now I have two of these to repair one of which is "as it came from the factory."

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[edinmass]

That will explain the rear wheel vibration and shaking going down the road! 👍

[JV Puleo]

It's a good thing I never drove it that way. I find it hard to believe anyone would let something like that go. It's reflective of their non-existent quality control. The basic design of the car isn't bad ... "pedestrian" is what I'd call it but it's clear they had no problem putting anything out the door. It's another example of why you have to look at EVERYTHING.

 

Of course, on dirt roads in Wisconsin where it was probably rare to hit 40 MPH - and with an engine so unbalanced that it must have felt like it was flying apart at 1200 rpm's, who would notice something like a bad wheel?

Edited August 24, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

Joe:

 I am waiting for the delivery of a ROUND rear brake drum for my 1925 Master. So I had to remove the very worn (inside) and over 3/16" out of round drum that was on it. Apparently the gentleman who "Restored" the car over a 15 year period thought correctly functioning brakes was not that big a deal.

The peened over hub bolts were already ground off because he had removed the drums to scrape the spokes to be varnished. When I removed this wheel/hub assembly the replaced (modern double row ball) rear bearing dropped out. The size specs on the bearing match as to the originals. But apparently at one time they may have siezed up and spun in the hub. Causing some wear. They had placed a new replacement bearing back in and poured solder around it to had some sort of fit! I have since cleaned out the solder and have used roll shim stock to get a good snug fit. .024 total shim to take up the play. I replaced the wheel and /hub and retorqued the hub nut, then indicated for run out. Only about .006 now...not too bad.

 

 I found the photos I took. I have a few hand held machine way scrapers I was able to use to clean out the bore. Long pieces of tool steel to scrape off the solder from  the O.D. of the bearing surface.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by dibarlaw
Added content (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Yikes! That makes my problems seem easy. It's astounding what sort of hack work we have to deal with. We should ask Ed what sort of "repairs" he's run up against - I bet it would keep me awake at night!

I suppose the original "restorer" had all the time in the world to scrape and varnish the spokes but getting the brakes to work properly was not so important. I'm going to make new hub bolts with a shallow hex on the outside, below the rounded end. I know it isn't "original" but I want to be able to put a wrench on them and get a good, even torque reading all around.

 

My drums are good - with little wear showing but I'm thinking of having them spray welded in any case. Some time ago forum member Ivan Saxton offered some good information of that subject and it seems that, while they are off, it would be prudent to get them as perfect as they can be. In any case, I will not peen the bolts.

 

My first brass car was a 1910 Model R Reo. It wasn't running and I took the engine to a well recommended "pro." One of the things he did was spot weld the cam lobes to the cam shaft - so that you could no longer get the center bearing out. I pulled the job and it was then I resolved I had to learn to do this stuff myself.

Edited August 24, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[chistech]

6 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Yikes! That makes my problems seem easy. It's astounding what sort of hack work we have to deal with. We should ask Ed what sort of "repairs" he's run up against - I bet it would keep me awake at night!

I suppose the original "restorer" had all the time in the world to scrape and varnish the spokes but getting the brakes to work properly was not so important. I'm going to make new hub bolts with a shallow hex on the outside, below the rounded end. I know it isn't "original" but I want to be able to put a wrench on them and get a good, even torque reading all around.

 

My drums are good - with little wear showing but I'm thinking of having them spray welded in any case. Some time ago forum member Ivan Saxton offered some good information of that subject and it seems that, while they are off, it would be prudent to get them as perfect as they can be. In any case, I will not peen the bolts.

 

My first brass car was a 1910 Model R Reo. It wasn't running and I took the engine to a well recommended "pro." One of the things he did was spot weld the cam lobes to the cam shaft - so that you could no longer get the center bearing out. I pulled the job and it was then I resolved I had to learn to do this stuff myself.

Got to love “”pros””! Unfortunately with me doing these cars, I’m up against things like your wheels and the other guys brakes all the time. Mainly, it was a lack. It could be lack of funds, lack of time, lack of knowledge, or lack of talent. Often I think with many it’s lack of wanting to do the best, correct job they can do. I believe most only do “good enough in my book “ sort of work and are happy with it. Guys like us on these restoration pages are a full 180d to that sort of mindset.

[JV Puleo]

This has been the longest stretch of "what to do next" I've had. It's unusual for me not to have the next project lined up but for some reason I'm short of materials on about 4 different parts...largely the result of my now being unable to remember exactly what I have. In any case, I decided to make the 3/4-20 threading gauge I'll need to make the inserts to fix the buggered holes in the hubs. This time I decided to use a piece of rusty mill shafting. I have a lot of that, it doesn't machine all that well but it was free.

 

 

I faced, bored and threaded the female part... then went on the the male part.

 

 

With that threaded I could finish the female part.

 

 

And this time I actually marked it for size...I hadn't been doing that and now I have so many of them I no longer remember what I have.

 

 

And while this was going on, I was cooking the hub pieces . That worked very well - not a trace of grease or rust left.

 

 

 

[JV Puleo]

Working out what bearings to use is always a headache. By the time I finally fit these, I'll have bought 3 sets of bearings because I keep thinking of better ways to accomplish my goal. This is one of the inside rear hub bearings.

 

 

As you can see, they are in less than usable shape - and this is the good one!

 

 

If it is at all possible I like to avoid machining the original parts. I'd rather modify them by adding something I can always remove. In this case, I need a tapered roller bearing that is smaller on the OD and bigger on the ID, with enough difference to make a pressed in sleeve. I've finally found some metric bearings, 70mm x 110 to replace this one. That will allow me to make sleeves that have about a .150 and .200 wall thickness. But, since I've started on this I dug out the last of the wheels to remove the hub. They are in remarkably good shape aside from the effects of some ham-handed "restorer" in the past.

 

Notice the remains of paint and striping...these have never been repainted. I even cleaned up a single spoke and was impressed by how well that went. It will be a lot of work, but I don't foresee any real problems aside from fixing the buggered holes.

 

 

I removed the hub. This one hadn't been damaged but he did damage the hole in the spokes. I've worked out a fix for that but it will have to wait until the hubs are finished

 

 

 

After I removed the old bearing cups, these went in the hot tank and have been cooking all day.

 

I intend to use the tool post grinder to make the sleeves since bearings are one of the few car items that really do require a high degree of precision. In the meantime, I did an experiment making one of the sleeves on the lathe, the idea being that if I can't master the grinder I have a fall back position. Also, I'm trying to make these from DOM tubing to avoid the tedious work of boring out huge bars of steel. The DOM tubing does not machine as easily as the stuff I usually use so I needed to experiment with tool shapes and typed to see what would give a reasonable result. I made this one from a scrap I found in my "maybe I'll use is someday" pile.

 

 

The OD came out perfect, virtually as good as a ground surface but it's always a chore working in thousandths to match metric parts. 70mm is 2.7559. I aimed for 2.760 - 1/10 of a thousandth over and hit it right on. I don't even have a 10's reading mic and this lathe wasn't built to do that sort of work in any case. The inside was a bigger challenge but I managed to get a good surface there too although, in the end, I came out about .003 too big. That's not a problem because I want this to slip on and off easily. Making these parts and fitting them will require a lot of taking it apart, putting it back together, measuring etc...remember, there are no prints to work from so I'm reverse engineering everything.

 

 

If I wanted to use this sleeve I'd just put some Locktite on it but when I make the finished version I'm aiming for a shrink fit.

Edited August 26, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I'm back in the shop today...after having the last of my upper teeth out. On the brighter side, the bearing arrived for the rear hubs. You can see here what I am aiming at. They have a larger OD and smaller ID than the originals so I will make precision sleeves for them. The larger rear bearing gets in internal sleeve to match the spindle while the outer bearing will get a carrier that will allow me to screw it onto the spindle like the original.

 

 

That job will call for the tool post grinder and I have to do some experiments with it first. This is also an experiment - bolts I thought up to hold the wheels and hubs together. I want to be able to use a wrench on them but I'd probably have to them in any case because early 20th century carriage bolts like this had a high domed head. The first step was to thread a piece of 7/8" hex and screw it onto a piece of 1/2 bar.

 

 

Then the end was turned down to 3/4" leaving some of the hex.

 

 

And the radius turning tool used to put the dome on. I will eventually have to make 24 of these so I want to work the bugs out of the design before I start on them.

 

 

It worked reasonably well although, as I expected, some better ideas came to me while doing it.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by JV Puleo
typos (see edit history)

[Terry Harper]

Quote

I'm back in the shop today...after having the last of my upper teeth out.

 

Excellent work Joe, Your really are sinking your teeth into this project and taking a bite out of it. While you where out you must have been chomping to get back in the shop.

 

 

....... I will go sit in the corner now.............😁

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Just be glad you haven't reached the false teeth stage of life! Actually, I was told they would eventually fall out when I was hit in the face by a flying snap ring from a 1905 Cadillac. That was close to 40 years ago and I got a lot longer use of them than was estimated at the time. I'm told it was pretty ugly but, thankfully that was long before the days of the cell phone camera

Edited August 31, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[chistech]

I’m surprised joe that you just didn’t start a new forum topic here. “The Puleo Periodontal Restoration “ and just started milling a set out of SS or making a plug and have the casting shop make up some out of brass. Then my neighbor could polish them up for you and you could have some shiny “gold” bling!😅 No project is beyond your reach. 

[JV Puleo]

I can't say I didn't think of it but at least in this case, dismissed the idea out of hand.

Many years ago a good friend commented on the dilapidated state of my work shoes and her husband added "he's just waiting for a cobbler to die so he can buy his tools and make his own."

 

 

[JV Puleo]

I hadn't planned to be in today but the job I had to do this morning took a lot less time than I'd anticipated. I'm still stuck waiting on bits for about 3 different things so I decided to make  the holding fixture and gauge I'll need for the carriers that will hold the outside bearings in the rear hub. This was particularly frustrating because I knew I'd already made it...and spent an hour yesterday looking for it. As soon as I'd cut the piece of bar to make a new one I thought to go back and look where it should be...and there it was! My grandfather would have said "if it was a bear it would have bit you."

 

 

Long before I started this thread I made bronze valve covers. They give access to the intake valves and the spark plugs are screwed into them. At the time, I noticed that they had the same thread as the ends of the rear axle so, since the machine was set up for threading and I had the dimensions, I made this too - thinking "I'll need it sooner or later." One end has a RH thread and the other a LH thread, 2-1/4-16.

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I took yesterday off to get my new teeth...a strange feeling because I haven't had a full set of teeth since my snap ring accident about 45 years ago. I would tell people I was collecting the Edwardian accidents along with the cars (Ive also been hit by a crank). Today I started on a tool I'll need to install the rear hub bearings. although I've never seen an original, it is probably similar to the one that was used - you can tell because without it there is no way to set the rear bearings. This is a piece of tubing, 2-3/4 OD and 2-1/4 D...it will get a flange on one end and 3 little pins that will engage the carrier for the outboard rear hub bearing.

 

 

I had intended to thread the flange on but then came to my senses...it's a tool! and one that will likely be used only a few times. It is not under heavy stress when used - in fact it's only there to screw a part down. So, after turning the end to 2-1/2" I decided to make the flange, press it on and braze it.

 

 

This is the flange...when done, it will only be about 3-1/4" across. I could have made the entire thing in one piece but wanted to avoid the chore of boring a deep 2-1/4" hole. Another aspect of this is that, in this case, I'm using scrap found around the shop so, aside from the time, it costs nothing. It's now within .050 of being finished but I think I'll leave the final cuts for tomorrow when it has cooled off and I'm rested.

 

 

 

[JV Puleo]

This hasn't been a very productive week...this business of waiting on materials gets stale quickly...nevertheless, I finished boring the flange for the bearing tool and press it into the tube.

 

 

Then brazed it in place...I'm still not all that good at this and it's a sloppier job than I'd like.

 

 

When it had cooled I put it back in the lathe and faced the end off.

 

 

This is how it works...the bearing will be pressed on to a carrier that will have 3 1/8" pin holes in it. The pins will be in the tool so I can screw the carrier on to the end of the axle housing inside the rear hub.

 

 

It's rough & ready appearance bothered me so I took a light finishing cut to clean it up.

 

I have to remind myself that it's just a tool...the pin holes will have to be drilled in this and the carriers at the same time with the same setting so I can't go any further until I've made those.

 

 

 

[JV Puleo]

Today I was reduced to "busy work" - although some things did come in today so perhaps I can get back to the serious stuff.

I started cleaning up a wheel. These are the best original wheels I've ever seen - completely tight and not a hint of rot in the wood. Even the metal parts still have much of their original paint on them. I'll do these gradually - using it as a "fill in" job when my back hurts and I need to sit down or, like currently, I'm waiting on something to arrive.

 

 

I did notice an interesting point. The color should be a creamy yellow. What is there matches the remaining paint on the chassis and rear end. But, this wheel seemed to be an olive drab color in places although the yellow paint was evident when I scraped the surface. Then I noticed this...

 

 

A place where the original pinstripe on the wheel shows. It's clear that the greenish color is under the stripe...so I wet a rag and wiped off a place where there was quite a bit of the green color showing. It looks as if it's just dirt and originally the wheels were varnished over the paint. That makes sense since this car long predates spraying. It was brush painted and varnished but I'd never encountered that on a wheel before. Of course, we get very few chances to examine a 1910 paint job in any condition so I'm not surprised I hadn't seen it before. Actually, the surface looks like cracked varnish although it shows up better in these pictures than it does in real life.

 

 

 

[JV Puleo]

Another experiment today.

You'll remember that the bolt holes in one of the wheels were badly egg shaped by some nitwit trying to drill the bolts out. That is why the holes in the hugs need to be repaired. Actually, the wholes in the wheel that had the bad "from the factory" hub aren't much better so I've been working on a solution. These wheels are so good that they deserve to be saved. My idea is a wooden bushing. To make them, I got some 1" x 1"  Lignum vitae. If you aren't familiar with this, it's one of, if not the hardest wood known. In the past it was commonly used for mallets, truncheons and. believe it or not, for prop shaft bushings in ships. It has an oily surface and is so dense that it doesn't float. If Wickepedia can be believed, the prop shaft in the Nautiilus had Lignum vitae bushings. But, while I had known about it I hadn't actually tried using it until today.

 

I started with the 1x1 piece using the same sharp bit I'd use for aluminum.

 

 

And turned the piece down to 7/8"

 

 

It's really remarkable. It machines like a high grade plastic...there was no sandpaper used because it simply wasn't needed. After cutting off I drilled and reamed to 7/16" - the size of the bolts currently in the wheels.

 

 

And this is the idea...I'll make a bushing for each hole. These will be epoxied in. There is much more to this to come because I need to make a tool to force the spokes out against the felloe and hold them solid while drilling...and there is the problem of actually drilling the holes since the wheels it too big for to go in drill press but knowing that I can make the bushings is a step in the right direction as there was no point of working out the rest op the problem if this didn't work.

 

 

 

[JimKB1MCV]

Lignum vitae is certainly worth a try.

 

I'm assuming you have enough stock on hand to do the job, I have a feeling sourcing that particular wood may be problematic.

 

I made a set of grips for a SA Colt revolver from Lingum vitae many years ago, difficult to work with hand tools.

 

In 1974 I had to have the propeller shaft bearing replaced on one of the Bath-built Marshal Plan trawlers the company I worked for had re-repatriated from France. It was a machined bronze casting ~six feet long with channels machined to accept precut Lingum vitae  sections about three inches wide and eight inches long and an inch or so thick and bored to fit the shaft. Worked fine and as far as I know still there. Unfortunately the trawler is on the bottom somewhere west of Kodiak Alaska.

[JV Puleo]

Yes, I have just enough to make all of them but may get a little more just to be safe. I haven't tried working it with hand tools but I can see where it would be a challenge. I once stocked a flint pistol in rosewood and that was enough of a challenge - though it came out really nice.

[nsbrassnut]

Hi All

I have been following JV’s postings for some time now. They have been very interesting and informative and have given me several ideas for my own projects.

I would like to make some comments on the idea of using the lignum vitea wood to repair the bolt holes in the wheels. This wood is well known in industrial circles as an excellent material for water lubricated shaft bearings. It’s oily and dense nature makes it rot resistant and capable of higher bearing loads than most other woods. Its commonly used hydro turbines and large submersed water pumps along with boat and ship shaft bearings.

However, it may not be the right material for this application. Something to consider, the materials oily and dense grain nature may result in little or no penetration by any epoxy and resulting in a potentially weak glue joint which may actually pop apart under a relatively low load. I would recommend a shop test first by epoxying a piece of the material to another piece of wood similar to the wheel spoke material such as ash or hickory. After it has cured, try loading it in a press or even put it in a vise and wack it with a mallet.  If the epoxy joint is strong, one of the woods will break first. If it breaks on the epoxy joint, then the joint is going to be poor.

And thing to consider. When drilling into the root of the wood spoke where the bolt hole is, you will be drilling into the portion of the spoke that has the highest torque load in service. Drilling a much larger hole than the original bolt hole will weaken the spoke considerably. Just consider the loss in cross sectional area at that location of the spoke and how much it will be reduces when the hold is drilled oversize. Its similar to drilling a large hole in a structural beam holding up your building. Just how much of the bean in your building are you willing to cut when its going to hold up the same load.

Repairing/resizing of the bolt holes does need to be done, but any oversizing of the hold should be as small as possible to preserve the strength of the wooden spoke.

Another suggestion. To help with “pushing” the spoke out to the fellow to help tighten them, a thin wall sleeve can be turned and pressed onto the hub to increase the size of the hub hole in the wood a bit. That will push the spokes out into the fellow and tighten them up in that direction.

However, remember when pushing the spokes outward, they will also tend to separate and loosen at the center and them may require shimming between the sides of the spokes to tight them up again. Which then also can change the bolt pattern for the hub bolts.

So, it might be better to install solid wood plugs of a wood similar to that of the spokes. Then when the wheel is fully tightened up, then install the hubs and final drill new bolt holes that match the hub holes.

Another tip when working with old wood wheels and trying to repair them for use. There is a good chance that the tendons at the outer ends of the spokes have shrunk in their holes in the fellow resulting in a loose fit in the fellow which will allow the spoke to both twist and move side to side in the fellow. This should be tested as the wheels are tightened up. One option to fixe a loose fit of the spoke tendon is to drill two small 1/8” holes in the fellow from the back side that should intercept the side of the spoke tendon pocket in the fellow. Then with a syringe inject some epoxy into the space to fill any hollows and lock the tendon in place. This works well, but it is a bit of a one-way fix. One the spoke tendon is epoxied in place; it will be more difficult to replace just one spoke in the future. But if the overall wheel repair goes well, then that shouldn’t be needed to be done.

A last note that was passed along to me years ago by a serious brass car restorer, driver. We are driving on trees that have been dead for over 100 years. Make sure that those sticks are sound, your life may depend on it.

Drive Safe

Jeff

Nova Scotia,

Canada

[JV Puleo]

Thanks! You have basically outlined most of the procedure I'm thinking of so we're clearly on the same page. As for the glue taking...I intend to put a course thread on the outside of the bushings to address that - or possibility that there won't be enough room for the epoxy. I'm also making a fixture to gently force the spokes out and I'll do that before I bore the holes for the bushings. In fact, I'm not sure how I'm going to do that yet but I'm still working on it. As for the hub ... I'll calculate how much space there is and wrap it with brass shim stock before I pull it into place. These wheels are very tight - the tightest I've ever seen. If they didn't have original paint on them I'd have guessed the wheels were redone at some point.

[nsbrassnut]

Hi JV

 

Sounds like you have a plan.

 

I do have a small concern about threading the hardwood spokes. If the epoxy will bond to the lignum vitea, then it should be very good. If it won't bond, then it could create stress risers in the wood, similar to sharp cuts in metal creating stress risers that can lead to cracking.

 

I did dry wrapping shim stock around a hub before pressing it into the center. However, thin shim stock would not stand up to the shearing pressure between the hub and spoke and just wrinkled up and jammed. The sleeve ring stood up better as a center filler. In the case of one set of good solid wood period wheels I used, I ended up with a 1/4" thick sleeve on the hub as the wheels were from a different car, but had the right shape, rim size and hub bolt pattern. At the time I was also working under a tighter budget so it was more affordable to modifiy good solid wood wheels to fit vs having new wood fellow wheels made to fit the original hubs.

 

I have done a few updates to axle and wheel bearings similar to what you have done here. But none were even near to the same high standard that you are showing us.

 

Good luck with the project. I am learning a lot from following in the shadows.

 

Drive Safe

Jeff

 

 

[JV Puleo]

There is a trick to using the shim stock that a friend - a very prominent restorer - gave me. But. I  haven't tried it yet so the jury is still out on that one. As to the threading....my idea was to use a rounded point bit and put a long, very course thread on the bushing, maybe 3 TPI. Since they are only 1-1/2 inches long that would only be about 4-1/2 turns in the length. When I'm done making the bushings I'll have 4 left over pieces too short to use so those will be used for the tests. I'm planning on using West Systems Marine epoxy which has, as far as I have seen, a very good reputation.

I would like to do a sleeve like you did but to do so I'd have to bore out the center of the wheel slightly. That presents a whole new set of problems because centering a wheel that bit would not be easy and, in any case, I don't think I could do it on my mill because the depth isn't great enough. They are 27" wheels - so quite large.

[Luv2Wrench]

I may be missing something but if I put in bushings on my wood wheels I wouldn't need to be concerned with them popping out as they're sandwiched between the hub plates, right?  I would think your's are the same.  Maybe you guys are talking about a different problem?

[JV Puleo]

That's correct. The bushings will be under the plates so they won't show. The original idea was a solution to fixing the wheel where the holes were badly damaged when someone tried to drill the bolts out. It then occurred to me that If I made a tool to force the spokes out - (actually to hold them tight against the felloe – they are tight but I don't want to loosen them),  then used wooden bushings and epoxied them in, the spokes could no longer push inward and thus loosen. It's still a good idea to shim the hub so there is no room at all inside the wheel for the spokes to move. The holes in the bushings are 7/16". The bolts I'm making are going to be 1/2". I will assemble the wheel using 7/16" bolts and then match drill each hole, replacing one bolt at a time with a new one. They won't come apart again...I'll have to paint them as a unit which isn't a problem since they were done that way to begin with.

 

The big problem is how to drill them...I haven't solved that one yet.

Edited September 10, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I took the weekend off...sort of. I spent two days loading two dumpsters with scrap metal and wood from the boat house on my late uncle's property. We are trying to finish the cleanup before the really cold weather hits and there is still a lot to do. Monday I got back to the lignum vitae bushings. I thought of a different way to do it...as it was, it was taking forever and while I usually don't begrudge the time there is no reason to take longer than necessary.

 

I cut the pieces to length first...

 

 

Then drilled and reamed them...

 

 

and then made a little fixture to hold them while I turn the OD. This allows me to do each step without having to re-set the machine. It's still tedious and by the end of today I still have only got a little more than half done.

 

 

I'm tempted to put it aside as I'd like to get back to the hubs but I've found that when I do that, I forget what I was doing and have to figure it al out again. Better I finish these, put them in a bag and forget about it until I need them. Late Monday a pile of material arrived...

 

 

So I probably have enough to do to keep me busy for the next month.

[JV Puleo]

I would never have guessed it would take so long to make these. In turning them down I found two that were cracked. Fortunately, two of the "spares" were long enough to match the others. That still leaves me with two to experiment with.

 

 

I trimmed them all to length...

 

 

Tomorrow I'll see about putting spiral grooves on the OD. Then I'll epoxy one of the spares into a piece of hard maple (the only thing I have that is similar to the hickory of the spokes) and see how well it holds.

 

 

Then I can get back to the hubs. There is a lot to do but I think I now have all the materials.

Edited September 16, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Being anxious to finish this up, I experimented with putting a spiral groove on the bushings as a way of anchoring the epoxy I'll glue them in with. I tried two different tools and wasn't happy with either.

 

 

These are now done. I put them in a box on the shelf and they will stay there until I need them. Tomorrow I'll get back to the hubs. This is proving to be a more complicated job than I'd anticipated. It looks as if I'll need several fixtures...but, I tend to think complicated. The longer I work on the design, the simpler things get.

 

I also drilled a 7/8 hole with a Forstner bit to see how well the bushings fit. That was satisfactory. If anything they are a little tight which makes the grooves all that more important. I don't want to squeeze all of the epoxy out when I push the bushings in.

 

 

Ultimately, I scrapped the spiral groove idea and just put 3 round bottom grooves in each bushing...

 

 

In sanding off the burrs, it also reduced the OD a very small amount - just enough so that they slip into the test hole a little easier.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

One thing I've been consistently worried about is boring the holes for the bushings and then re-drilling for the new bolts. They have to be STRAIGHT...you can tell from the damaged hub what happens when someone tries to do it with a hand drill. The wheel won't fit in the drill press because it isn't deep enough. I need about 10-1/2" between the face of the machine and the spindle to reach the bolt holes so this morning I cleaned off the big mill to see it that could do it...

 

 

And it fit. There was a plan B and a plan C as well. I could have tried to find a radial drill press and modified it to do this or I could have asked my neighbors at the foundry if I could use their Bridgeport...but it's nice to know I no longer have to worry how I'm going to do it.

 

When I was at loose ends waiting for materials I started several other jobs that have been hanging around for years, one of which is a new spindle for my valve grinder. I've already made 2 - and neither of them were satisfactory. Both ran out about .003 which is very close to the original runout but not rally good enough in my mind. The problem is that the OD of the spindle has to be accurate with the ID withing .0005 or less. The only really good way to do this is to bore a piece of stock and then use a cylindrical grinder to grind the OD centered on the ID. I do this all the time with turning but I don't have a grinder. Theoretically, I could do it with the tool post grinder but that is dependent on the accuracy of the lathe which is fine for automotive work but will grind a slight taper over the 8" I need. So, this part will have to go out. Because of that, I thought it best to get it out of the way so I can forget about it. I started with a bar 1-7/16" in diameter...

 

 

Drilled and reamed to .005 under 20mm - the size of the shank on the ER25 collet holder I intend to use.

 

 

All this was very time consuming because the tail stock on the lathe only extends about 5". You have to drill as deep as you can, then move it forward and drill more, stopping frequently to pull it back to clear the chips. This is easily the deepest hole I've ever done and I was just able to do it. It did come out as I'd hoped so at least the time wasn't wasted. I now have to turn it down to about .015 over size to straighten it and give the gentleman who will grind it something to work with.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I went in today but got sidetracked by an editing job. One of the jobs I do is straighten out the text of articles and books that are written by collectors for whom English isn't their native language. They speak English but writing technical articles in a foreign language is often a real challenge.

 

Tomorrow I'll get to work on repairing the hubs where they've been damaged. I also have to give some thought to another one of those dilemmas that comes up when doing machine work with antique machines. I revived the tool post grinder to make the sleeves that will hold the rear wheel bearings...but, to use it I will have to mount it on the the lathe compound (the top portion of the cross slide). The graduated dial on that piece is 2" in diameter and has 125 graduations (1/8" per turn). Between wear and my not-so-perfect eyesight I find it difficult to do precise work with it which is why I fitted the dial indicator to the lower portion of the cross slide and use that whenever I have to be really precise. Unfortunately, I have no way to fit something similar to the top slide. I'm thinking the solution is to replace the lead screw that is now 3/4-8 with one that is 3/4-10 and make a new dial that is 3" in diameter with only 100 graduations. It's all easier said than done because you can't just buy the parts for a 100 year old lathe (and if I could they would be frightfully expensive). So, little as I like interrupting the Mitchell job, it looks as if I'll have to make some lathe parts first. It's something I've been putting off for years but it seems stupid to not do it now when I have a precise part to make.

[TonyAus]

An easier way to get fine feeds is to angle the topslide and use the carriage for longitudinal movement.  If the topslide is set at 45 degrees, one thou of movement on the dial will give you .000707" infeed (sine 45 degrees).  Similarly, setting the topslide at 30 degrees will give .0005" infeed per thou and 20 degrees .000342".  This should be fine enough for grinding.  

[JV Puleo]

I have to admit I only just learned this...it's in the the Dumore grinder instructions. I've never been great at math so it simply didn't occur to me. That said, I was thinking of renewing the lead screw & dial in addition to using this method. I think one of the unintended consequences of doing this work is that you gradually get more and more demanding of precision...if you know it can be done, you then want to do it. When I was working with a file and a hammer I never thought in these dimensions!

Edited September 19, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

These will be the threaded inserts to repair the two damaged hubs.

 

 

Faced off on both sides to make them flat and uniform.

 

 

 

Then drilled and reamed to 7/16"

 

 

I did about half to them before deciding to call it quits. I'll finish this tomorrow and thread them.

 

[JV Puleo]

I finished boring the sleeves today and started threading them...using the thread gauge I made a week or so ago...

 

 

The dial indicator set up I use when threading was a big help because when the first one is done. all I need do it thread until I've come to the same depth as shown on the indicator.

 

 

I'm almost done...only 3 or 4 left to do. I'm making two extras just to be safe.

 

[JV Puleo]

I finished the threading today and then started on additional fixtures needed to do the machine work on the hubs. I need 4 "plugs"...two for each size hub in order to center them on the rotary table. I'm making them out of aluminum because these are a one time fixture - it's certainly unlikely I'll ever do this again but, thankfully, I will probably be able to make something else from them in the future.

 

They go in the lathe...

 

 

To be faced off and a 1-1/2" hole reamed in the center.

 

 

The second one was a little bigger.

 

 

The third plug required the big chuck - a PIA and every time I put it on I wonder when I won't be able to lift it...

 

 

I finished that one and set up the fourth but after standing all day at the lathe I'm tired. I'll go on with that one tomorrow.

 

 

These still have to be trimmed to length and the OD turned so they slip into the hubs.

Edited September 21, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I bored the 4th plug and then put the first one on an expanding mandrel to turn the od.

 

 

And, when that was done, trimmed it to the proper length.

 

 

Then I did the 2nd one. In the process I've learned that the bearing seats in the hubs aren't perfectly parallel and they aren't exactly the same size. I'll correct that, but it's likely to be a lot of extra work. Essentially, all the pressed=in sleeves have to be custom fitted to the hole they go in.

 

[JV Puleo]

I finished the 3rd and 4th plugs for the ends of the hubs but decided to wait until the bearings I'll fit to the front hubs arrive.

 

 

 

I actually spent most of the day taking the lathe compound apart. I'm resolved to fit a new lead screw before I do the internal grinding - both because (if it works) it will do a better job but mostly because this is something I've put off for a long time. There are other jobs that are on hold because I wasn't satisfied with the accuracy of the lathe for really precise work, notably, finishing the pistons. Machine work has a lot in common with old car work but with the added complication of being much more demanding of accuracy. There is one part that will be genuinely difficult to make so I'll probably do that one first. One thing about this is certain though...I will not alter any of the original parts because if it does't work I can always go back to the machine as it was.

[JV Puleo]

Another day of odds & ends...

I tried the technique that TonyAus suggested earlier to make a plug to go in the end of the new spindle for the valve grinder. This will have to be ground to size and I suspect they will need something on one end to attach a dog to. It had  to be a tight press fit. The compound was angled at 50-degrees - at which point .001 on the dial equally .0005 infeed. It worked pretty well but I still have a hard time using the small dial. I think that, in combination with a larger dial, it will be a real winner.

 

 

I put it in the lathe to turn on centers...I want to take it down to about .015 larger than the finished size. My major problem here is that the lathe turns a slight taper. It's not important with short parts, or parts held in the head stock but long parts that need to be perfectly straight are a problem. The taper would not effect most car parts but it's not acceptable for a precision spindle.

 

 

While I'm waiting on the new front wheel bearings I started on the new compound lead screw...first by taking measurements and making a drawing.

 

 

 

While it's not a real drawing, it's good enough for my purposes...

The biggest challenge here is making the new graduated dial. For that, I've designed another tool that I'll use in conjunction with the small dividing head to engrave the graduated lines.

 

 

 

I didn't get very far with this...rather than doing one and then the other, I'm making the parts for both as it seems expedient depending on how the machines are set up. I did bore the new hand wheel (which isn't in the drawing)...

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)