1956322 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Sometimes ignorance is bliss;) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) The first thing I'm going to do is take it to the car wash and pressure wash it. I was thinking about painting it, too, but not sure about that. My father also told me to drop the pan and get any sludge out of there if any. I do still have a complete engine gasket kit. I also wanted to do a compression test but I feel like I would find something... Also, it came with chrome valve covers. Now I need to find a chrome air cleaner. Edited June 18, 2017 by Beemon (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) I found this video of a fire truck 322. It's really interesting how it has a 53/55 valley cover with 56 valve covers, but the oil cap hole isn't stamped out. Anyways, since this is my rescue motor, and the valve covers are chromed, I think I'll paint it the same orange/red color with the spark plug covers the aluminum silver to accent the valve covers. Still throwing ideas around... Today I took a bunch of bolts off my salvage engine and swapped them onto the running engine. A lot of stuff was kind of out of place. They broke off an edge of the motor mount to weld on an alternator bracket, but they spaced it wrong so I removed it and swapped in the generator mount from the salvage engine. When I pulled one of the mounting screws out, I didn't realize it was in the water jacket and green antifreeze came out. No brown, unlike my rebuilt engine, so I'm going to say the water jackets are fine... for now. Pulled the valve covers, valves look nice and clean and I cleaned some sludge out of the top of the heads. I pulled the rocker arms, they had a replacement pushrod that was thicker so I swapped it for a good used pushrod. I may have swapped 401 rockers in place of the old original ones... Checked the oil, a quart low but not milky. Swapped the distributor for my old original one since I won't be using a PCV system. Pulled the road draft tube and looked inside - nothing to warrant panic. I put the air compressor on it and it pushed air through the crankcase, so it should breath well. The fan is OK, but I was going to put my 6 blade clutch fan on it anyways. It had a fuel pump block off plate. To get it running, I'm going to use my old pump obviously, but I'm looking to switch to the truck pump if I can nab it next paycheck. The biggest thing about this find though, is the exhaust manifolds. The flapper valve still works and I was able to pull the hot air choke tube out of the manifold. So now I can use climatic control properly! Now I just need to transport it over to my grandpa's and separate the Dynaflow from the engine. Looks like I'll be able to make it to the BCA All Buick car show in Puyallup this year! PS: Does anyone know how to set the exhaust valve flapper? Right now it's resting in an open position, I think the counterweight has been moved. Edited June 18, 2017 by Beemon (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Buick Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Good deal, I am glad for you! Leave the flapper open and run with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Usually, MANY things are somewhat "idiot-proofed" in that they only will go together ONE way. That heat riser valve should be that way. ONE way the counterweight will go onto the shaft. Make sure everything is completely "free" and such. Many would block it open and be done with it. I'm not sure they made that much difference anyway, but on an engine which relies on exhaust heat going directly to the carb (although there is a small vacuum bleed to make that situation be helped along), it might be good to baseline things with it fully operational. NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I wouldn't take too much apart. Get the heat riser working though. The shop manual oughta tell you something about it I think. 99 percent of heat risers work the same way. The thermostatic spring pulls the valve shut. The weight is up high somewhere. as the spring relaxes with heat, the weight pulls down, opening the valve. Any other springs or pads or whatever are there to keep it from rattling. If you think the thermostatic spring might be on backwards, point a heat gun at it and watch what happens. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 My original manifold was stuck shut so I had just ripped it out and could never get the choke to work properly, so I would like to keep it operational. I always used an electric choke because it would take ten minutes for the heat stove to warm up otherwise. Plus, it's worth more that way. The reason I asked, though, is that there isn't a stopper in there for fully open or fully closed, I can just rotate it freely against the spring. I would like to get this figured before I drop it in the car. Also, are the exhaust bolts unique? I'm missing one. Before I had just used hardware store bolts, will they work fine with the French locks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 20 hours ago, 1956322 said: Sometimes ignorance is bliss;) I keep telling my Wife that lots of people live more blissful lives than I. They survive. Put it in and go. You must be close to having zippers on the thing by now. Be sure there is plenty of oil and water in it. And do some diligent shake downs. You'll be OK. Think about how you got that engine. I bet if you follow the trail, peer pressure is the basic reason that engine became available to you. His friends encouraged the LS swap. Don't take it another level and let peer pressure have you sitting there with a bunch of used and questionable parts. Just smartly and quietly put the car together. If you find things you question and write about them this could become a 13 page topic. And that 13 might be unlucky. Bernie 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I'd still drop the pan clean the sludge but don't go looking for problems.. Except it for what it is an old good running motor nothing more nothing less:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Oh, before I get some real work done, don't be surprised to hear what sounds like rods knocking when you start the car. It looks like the engine has been sitting on the pan. There is not a lot of room between the pan and the crank throws up front. The pan can oil can dent from the weight. If you tap both sides of the pan with light ball peen hammers at the same time you should be able to get it to pop out. If you have room to do it while the engine is running you will hear when it stops. Wanna know how I found that out? Yeah, it's a scary sound. Bernie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Im hoping the Buick gurus in here will know more about your particular heat riser. On the Chrysler ones I am most familiar with, they HAVE to work for the factory choke to work, and a stuck one will drive you nuts in short order on a street driven car. Other than that, put it in and drive it. If you look too close, you will find stuff. Old cars aren't perfect. When you build this car a new motor, if you still intend to, then nitpick that one and make it perfect. On a used engine for a driver, just drive it!. Check your oil and water a lot, especially the oil. This happened every time the car got filled with gas when it was new. Make sure you are checking it often enough that it doesn't need a whole bunch of oil every time, that way if the oil consumption suddenly gets worse, you wont get a nasty surprise. Change the oil regularly. If it uses a lot of oil, don't fall into the trap of "I'm always dumping fresh oil in there so it must be ok". The real reason for draining the pan is to get the contaminants out. Watch the oil ESPECIALLY CLOSE the first time you drive it across the state. If you have been driving a car around the city for a while and then take it on a long highway run, it might appear to burn a whole bunch of oil. This is because all the gas and water that leaked past the rings all boils out when the car gets really warmed up all the way. Many people aren't aware of this effect and get surprised by it. In any event, you will be familiar with this particular engine's needs soon enough, just drive it! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Any bolt will work on the exhaust manifold...just clean the threads and use anti-seize. Grade 8 are harder to break, but when you do break one it is a beach to get out.. The flapper in the exhaust manifold has nothing to do with choke operation on these engines. It is there to prevent carburetor icing in near freezing conditions and to counter gas of low volatility (currently available fuel is highly volatile). Use your original manifold or delete the flap on this one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 So swap in my driver single exhaust manifold, got it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 So I guess I ruined someone's Father's Day. I just got confirmation that the papers were served yesterday, oops! July 24th is set in stone we'll see what happens. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 Painted the engine today. We're set for clear skies so install is looking to be Wednesday. I'm keeping the chrome valve covers, that's why the junkyard valve covers are on there. Also I figured out the flapper valve, the spring was off 180, like someone had been playing with it. It holds closed now and when heated, opens. It gets cold up here, much different from good old Texas, so I think I'll keep it for now. I'm not of any shortage of exhaust manifolds, that's for sure. Also for the record, this is DupliColor Ford Green. When painting over the original green, it was pretty darn close - a lot closer than Detroit Diesel (Alpine) Green. I had pressure washed the block to get most of the crud off, but in the end just ended up painting over it on the oil pan and below the manifolds where you can't really see anyways... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Again, your court efforts will require more than just your own opinion of what was done incorrectly. You need an expert to go with you to court as your witness that this was done wrong. While we can all look inside there and see the damage, do not count on your judge being familiar with such damage. Check the rules of evidence, and get a machinist who is willing to show up in court for you. Otherwise the result may be devastating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 In some cases, aftermarket brands of engine paint don't always match what the original color was. So the "Ford" color is a little off from the OEM Ford color. Just as the old and original "GM Blue" (in the aftermarket brand) was way tooooo dark compared to the OEM GM engine paint and what was on the motors originally. Still good to know what is a decent match! IF the aftermarket paint brand's paints were an exact match for what they claimed to be, some licensing money would have had to change hands, I suspect. Enjoy! NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 When going to college you pay tuition to learn about each topic. You pay the fee, spend your time, and hopefully come out better prepared for the future. Life works about the same way, a balance of time and money invested in life's learning. You already learned a lot about what to do if you have a bad engine and the options available, though some were not obvious at the beginning. Now you will learn how the courts and legal systems work. Just like you initial thoughts on engine rebuilding, your end knowledge of courts should be interesting for you. I was sent home from a doctor's office with all the symptoms of a stroke on a Monday with instructions to stop back Friday. Three hours later the big event took place. I lost $40,000 subcontracting to a company that couldn't find the horses at a rodeo. Just like tuition, I learned a lot, maybe an MBA's worth of tuition. Good luck, I hope you recognize the net positive value will be the experience, not the retribution. Bernie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 Tomorrow is the big day. I've got everything I've wanted painted up now. Dad is driving up for the install. Maybe this time I'll make sure the torque converter drain plugs are visible from the flywheel... lol. I gotta say, I wasn't sure about the chrome valve covers, but they look pretty nice. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Beemon said: Tomorrow is the big day. I've got everything I've wanted painted up now. Dad is driving up for the install. Maybe this time I'll make sure the torque converter drain plugs are visible from the flywheel... lol. I gotta say, I wasn't sure about the chrome valve covers, but they look pretty nice. Man! The Energizer bunny got nuttin' on you! Lookin' very nice! Wishing you the best of luck on gettin' it to drive like a Buick. Glad things seem to be lookin' up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 8 hours ago, Beemon said: I gotta say, I wasn't sure about the chrome valve covers, but they look pretty nice. Somewhere I have an advertisement showing a '58 nailhead with chrome accessories (including valve covers) likely done for a show / promotion shot and always thought, I'd like to have that! Like many here, been there, done that. Be cool and be careful today with the swap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) We got on it at 10 this morning and I finished it at 10:30 tonight and I drove it home. Edited June 22, 2017 by Beemon (see edit history) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Still can't figure out the WCFB choke. The choke won't heat up after 5 minutes and pull off, I think my choke spring is beat. Going to probably swap back to the 4GC tomorrow since I'm a little hesitant to go back to the Edelbrock. While it was the best running carb, it just doesn't feel right to try and do up this rescue engine like that. Oh and here's a good one for you guys. We were trying to line up the block and tranny and when it finally went snug (with taking awareness to torque converter drain plugs this time), one of the torque converter to flywheel housing bolts fell out. Gasp! So, what we ended up doing was taking 3 bread ties, wrapping them together, then stripping the paper off one end and wrapping it around the threads of the bolt. I then had to snake it back through the hole... we were not pulling the engine back out again! Also I used what I thought was the mark on the balancer for TDC, but ended up being a paint smudge... turns out we were 180 out. So after I pulled the distributor again, I set the balancer to 5 BDC, dropped it back in so it was pointing at #1, marked the base with a highlighter close to where I thought #1 plug wire was on the cap, lined the highlighter mark up with the rotor, and put everything back together... when it fired off, it was at TDC exactly.. I was 5 degrees off. All in all, lots of fun. My dad bailed on me around 3:30 PM after it was seated in. The rest of the night I spent doing all the small 1 man stuff... alternator, vacuum hoses, etc. Here's a pic of the engine my dad took right after we got it butted up to the transmission (he hasn't uploaded our special torque converter bolt installer yet): The next thing I gotta do before going to college is rip the dash back apart. My oil gauge stopped working for some reason and needs to be investigated. When we fired it up at the guy's place, we noticed about 40 psi. Is that normal? Also the radio has been cutting in and out, I think one of the big capacitors is grounding out on the inside after going over some heinous bumps.... and maybe I can get the clock working, too! I've also decided against doing a compression check... I want to know, but I don't want to know... lol. This about wraps up the thread... I guess when I get to machining the other engine, I'll make a new one. Thank you everyone for advice, support and feedback with everything that has gone on in this thread. As always, it is greatly appreciated no matter what the subject matter and content is. I learn something new every time I come on here and ask questions. Edited June 22, 2017 by Beemon (see edit history) 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 So how does this one run compared to your old one with all its problems?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 The old one was balanced and smooth but smoked like a chimney under load. This one is lopey and not rough but not smooth as silk either, basically what I'd expect of an old engine. Only drove it at night and I'm waiting to hold judgement until after the fluid changes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD36 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 How sweet it is! (J. Gleason ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I wonder if the different feel is either a tuning issue or a difference in the cams which is my guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 Same cam as before, but I put the 1.6:1 rockers on there so with more lift, maybe it's a little more meaty? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 12 hours ago, Beemon said: My oil gauge stopped working for some reason and needs to be investigated. When we fired it up at the guy's place, we noticed about 40 psi. Is that normal? 40 psi is plenty on a cold engine. My oil gauge also stopped working after an engine installation...turn out I pinched the line between the block and bell housing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, old-tank said: 40 psi is plenty on a cold engine. My oil gauge also stopped working after an engine installation...turn out I pinched the line between the block and bell housing . Willie, while you're here, what grade oil would you recommend for the used engine? I was thinking 10W-40 or 20W-50, or straight 30W. The summer heat is here, but nights are still in the 50s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Beemon said: Willie, while you're here, what grade oil would you recommend for the used engine? I was thinking 10W-40 or 20W-50, or straight 30W. The summer heat is here, but nights are still in the 50s. I use Castrol 20W-50 in all of mine year round and would not hesitate to use it in yours or any new or used engine. Use some MMO or just outboard oil (4oz) in a tank of gas since those 1:6 lifters are moving the valves past the working area they are used to. The choke housing should have vacuum at the fitting for the heat tube. If not check the gasket between the base and bowl section; the gasket can be installed wrong and that is a symptom...follow the path. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfconsult Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 How about a video of the car running? I think we'd all like to hear the roar of the engine to help you celebrate your accomplishment of getting this done! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosage Chavis Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, dmfconsult said: How about a video of the car running? I think we'd all like to hear the roar of the engine to help you celebrate your accomplishment of getting this done! Yeah Ben, don't leave us hang'n like that.? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 7 hours ago, Beemon said: This one is lopey and not rough but not smooth as silk either, Now THAT's a Buick! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 You asked for the video, you shall receive! I hope everyone likes my joke at the end... It's really funny, the lopey and poor driveability was terrible oil. I did the oil change today. I used Valvoline VR1 20W-50 and the car runs like brand new. It also had a FRAM filter in there... now replaced with a WIX filter. Also I couldn't figure out why the WCFB won't pull off the choke. There is vacuum to the heat stove, and I waited 5 minutes... today it's 78 degrees outside, it's not cold or anything. Looks like I'm going to have to tear it back down and see what's going on with that gasket. For now, the 4GC is back on. I don't have a good choke stove tube for it, so it's just running the electric choke for now. This engine deserves respect, and aside from the valve covers with the 401 rockers underneath and the late 50's Buick fuel filter, it's going to be mostly stock, IE no additional modifications like a PCV system or a newer carburetor. Oil bath filter, too. It's an original running motor, it needs to be preserved with dignity. I'll save the Edelbrock and stuff for my new engine. I don't know what the original caretakers of this engine did for maintenance, but it'll be babied from here on out. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Sounds good to me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 My final regrets with my car right now is the exhaust. I was talked into Magnaflow mufflers, but I think I would have much preferred stock mufflers after listening to the LeSabre concept. I don't know what stock mufflers sound like because my original ones were collapsed and perforated and were thrown out... but damn do you hear me coming when the secondary air valve flips open. Quiet otherwise putting around. Put a Honda to shame today in Low. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfconsult Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) I think it sounds very good! thanks for posting the video. Congratulations on a job well done and persevering until the end. Worry about the mufflers later and just enjoy the fruits of your labor and stress. Edited June 23, 2017 by dmfconsult (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Sounds healthy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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