Guest j2thesea Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Hello everyone. Name's Josh. I recently purchased my first 50's era vehicle. A 52 Buick Special. Early 50's Buicks are some of my favorite cars. Those teeth! I drove the car home about an hour and a half from central NH down to the Mass border. It was a little hairy. lol Runs like a champ and stops, sort of. The first issue I am having is the only lights that are working are the tail lights and reverse lights. No headlights, brake lights, front parking lights, dash lights or blinkers. All bulbs look good. Filaments are intact, connections are clean. Fuses are intact. I am planning on ordering new switches for the appropriate lights, i.e. brake light switch, turn signal switch, head light switch etc...and reground the rear light housings to the frame for good measure. Electricity somewhat mystifies me and a 6 volt system really has me just staring a lot. Is there some common, super obvious thing I should be checking? Or has anyone resolved an issue like this? Any insight would be extremely appreciated. Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialEducation Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Bad ground is the most common electrical issue. Especially with a 6v system, just a tiny bit of corrosion somewhere will prevent the flow of current. 6v just doesn't have the force to jump across much (12v is not much better). I'd start at the front end (less wire required) and put a test light from the hot terminal of the bulb in question and the negative post of the battery. If you've got power at the terminal, you then need to ohm out the ground path. Pull the ground terminals and screws and shine them up with a wire brush. If you don't have power, start checking for power at the fuses and switches. At the back of the car, repeat the process. You might want to make some long test leads so you can get a known good ground to the area you are working in. The recurring issue on our '56 has been corrosion at the fuse box terminals. Disconnect the battery, pull the fuse, wire brush the fuse block, reinstall the fuse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Thanks for the reply! I'm going to follow all the grounds and clean them and add more. I can't seem to find the brake light switch. Pics look like it is near the master cylinder which is attached to the frame somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 34 minutes ago, j2thesea said: Thanks for the reply! I'm going to follow all the grounds and clean them and add more. I can't seem to find the brake light switch. Pics look like it is near the master cylinder which is attached to the frame somewhere? Should be on the master cylinder located under an access panel found just in front of the driver side front seat. On the floorboard. Get a test light. to check terminal ends for voltage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2_willys Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I would check the brake switch first. Check the terminals on brake switch for 6 Volts to ground. One should have this. If you have 6 volts on switch, short the two terminals together and see if the brake lights come on. If so, then the switch is either defective, or out of adjustment. Next would be the headlight switch. This is the control for parking lights, head lights, and instrument panel lights. Verify the switch is wired correctly. Blinkers are fairly simple too. Pull the blinker unit and again (with the ignition switch in ign position) check for 6 volts on one of the blinker socket terminals. If 6 volts is there, then you can jumper both terminals together and see if rear lights lite up with turn signal switch in left or right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 On my 1950, the stop light switch is just in front of the cowl, driver side, in a junction block. First thing off the master cylinder. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialEducation Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 FYI, we've had trouble getting good hydraulic switches for the MC, so we gave up and put a modern mechanical switch on the pedal, clamped to the column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Thank you very much for the input fellas, it's a huge help. So I located the MC and what I believe is the brake light switch. I have attached a pic to be sure I have some semblance of an idea what I'm looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialEducation Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 13 minutes ago, j2thesea said: Thank you very much for the input fellas, it's a huge help. So I located the MC and what I believe is the brake light switch. I have attached a pic to be sure I have some semblance of an idea what I'm looking at. Yup. Jumper those 2 wires and you should have brake lights. One side should have 6v all the time. On a side note, what's with the loose bolt on the left side of the photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 You found it! Can be removed from the top with a large socket wrench but I cannot remember the size. Have anew one ready to install, tighten and check for leaks with brakes applied. Good luck. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 That loose bolt looks like it is half-hazardly holding the master cylinder on. Gonna have to be tightened. Thanks again for the info everyone. There is a good chance I'll be asking more questions in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I'd leave that bolt alone till I had a chance to soak it for a week or two. I still think hot automatic trans fluid is the best option for rust penetration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51dyno Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 It happened to me once with no lights on anything at sunset , turned out to be the ground on the floor dimmer switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) Good Morning. It's raining, which blows. So the brake light switch is definitely bad, I think. lol I connected the two switch wires together and after significant cleaning of the connectors, the brake lights did fire up. I then cleaned the male connectors on the switch itself and reattached the wires.....no brakes lights. So that is a positive step. I did read something that said when changing the switch, have someone lightly press on the brake pedal to keep the little switch housing full of brake fluid, as to not get air in the lines. Sound right? Edited August 26, 2016 by j2thesea Grammar (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Just remove the old and install the new one. When you buy the new one check for a sending unit socket that fits at the autoparts store. A six point 1" socket will work in a pinch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnier Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I just picked up a 52 super which had no tail lights or instrument lights. Turned out it was the headlight switch that was the culprit. Cleaned it up and they work.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 So I soaked the joint between the switch and the receiver part underneath it, ALL day. I bought a new switch and found a one inch socket...and in all of my infinite wisdom, attached the socket to about 2 feet of extensions and put my electric impact drill/wrench and promptly tore off one and bent another, of the four brake lines that feed into it. >:( It's the front left one, so not TOO bad. I'm thinking of detaching all the brake lines that feed into the 4 way and taking it completely out to get the switch out. Any one know what that 4 way piece that the switch screws into is called, in case I need to get a new one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) It's a distribution block. You need to look for a cut away in the Brakes section of your shop manual and do some research or whether or not it has a pressure residual valve. No aftermarket replacements, however that does not mean you can't buy an aftermarket distribution block. Note that I did not say proportioning block - that is because drum/drum applications are proportioned based on the wheel cylinder diameter. It's not something you should play with, as it is very unforgiving to try and get everything right... don't ask me how I know. If it were me, I would remove the block, put a wrench on it, a socket over the switch and break the two apart. Once apart, soak completely in some type of cleaning solvent and blow out to get rid of all the old gunk in there. While your lines are busted, might be a good time to do the whole car since they look pretty original in there. I know this isn't a brakes thread, but now that the lines are exposed, you really should inspect wheel cylinders, master, etc. Your brake light switch could be fine, you might not be getting enough pressure due to old seals in the wheel cylinders, rust blockage in the lines, etc. You never know until you get in there yourself. Edited August 26, 2016 by Beemon (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 A little advice from someone thats messed with old cars for years and fixes them for a living, get hold of a service manual and read it, try and get an understanding of how the car works, secondly, your car is an old grandma, put away anything that resembles a power tool. Things on that car have been in the same spot for over 50 years, most things wont "zip out". Bolts need to be soaked (sometimes for a week) and worked loose, 2 spanners if possible. Take your time, enjoy the "fixing of the car". Rip/tear/bust is no fun and expensive and will end in a car in 100 pieces for sale for nothing Sorry if I sound harsh, but if everything breaks when you touch it, you obvious enthusiasm wont last long 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Good advice from both of you. My pride does not hinder me from accepting harsh advice. I didn't think the distribution block would also spin, lesson certainly learned. I had planned on inspecting the brake system thoroughly, sooner now than later, I suppose. New brake lines were always in the equation. I do have a shop manual, I look at it at least once a day. There is certainly no end to my enthusiasm, unlike my knowledge, as of yet. Thanks for all the info once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 OK, so a little update, if anyone cares to hear. I replaced the master cylinder and all the wheel cylinders. Waiting on pre-bent lines. I installed an intake/exhaust gasket, so she is quiet, for a while, as I hear that they fail pretty rapidly. I have also changed the headlight switch, so now the dash lights work and the map lights work and the tail lights continue to work, but no headlights. Going to check the dimmer switch and re-check for power in the headlight wires in the morning. Good day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) On 27/08/2016 at 10:58 AM, j2thesea said: My pride does not hinder me from accepting harsh advice. .....There is certainly no end to my enthusiasm, unlike my knowledge, as of yet. A very wise person once spoke the very same words. Edited September 1, 2016 by maok spelling error (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBulldogMiller55Buick Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 On 8/26/2016 at 5:48 PM, Ttotired said: A little advice from someone thats messed with old cars for years and fixes them for a living, get hold of a service manual and read it, try and get an understanding of how the car works, secondly, your car is an old grandma, put away anything that resembles a power tool. Things on that car have been in the same spot for over 50 years, most things wont "zip out". Bolts need to be soaked (sometimes for a week) and worked loose, 2 spanners if possible. Take your time, enjoy the "fixing of the car". Rip/tear/bust is no fun and expensive and will end in a car in 100 pieces for sale for nothing Sorry if I sound harsh, but if everything breaks when you touch it, you obvious enthusiasm wont last long "spanner" That's English for "wrench" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 20 hours ago, JamesBulldogMiller55Buick said: "spanner" That's English for "wrench" Hmmm, Shoulda writ "Spanna", then I woulda been speakin proper Stralyen hahaha It is funny talking to the differing countries on these forums, even different regions of the same country (Australia included) Most things I talk about with the cars, I try to Americanize as its American cars I am normally talking about, but that one slipped through Most of you would know these, but to us Aussies, a hood is a bonnet, a fender is a guard, a trunk is a boot, a top is a roof and there are probably a thousand other things as well 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialEducation Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 It's ok. I'm well versed in Top Gear (don't ask which version, there's only one) so I follow you either way. British & Aussie auto terminology is pretty similar. And now it's time to put a star in our reasonably priced car... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 2 hours ago, SpecialEducation said: It's ok. I'm well versed in Top Gear (don't ask which version, there's only one) Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I have seen every episode of Top Gear several times. Bovril anyone? Carparks and speed cameras? I put my boffin hat on while tinkering with the lights in my car and am happy to say all lights are go, except the directional signals. Is there a separate directional signal switch like the wiring diagram seems to show? The shop manual says the only troubleshooting measures are to check the fuse and check/change the flasher unit. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 There should be a separate wiring diagram for the turn signal switch. But after taking one apart, there is not much there to go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I think what your thinking is a second switch is the fuse box Relatively simple circuit, power from the fuse (marked dr signal) goes to the flasher unit, it should then come out 2 ways from the flasher unit, 1 output (16BP) goes into the flasher switch and comes out to light up the idiot lights on the dash (16RB or 16GP) depending on wether its turned left or right. The other output (16BC) is the main output and that goes to the flasher switch and comes out (16BGC or 16GC) depending on wether its turned left or right, then into the fuse box where it splits to go front and rear All that said, most common fault will be the flasher unit faulty or a blown fuse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I changed the flasher and the fuse looks good. The flasher switch, I have learned through rigorous study, is located under the steering wheel. Is it possible the switch itself is defective? Not sure I want to pull the steering wheel off anytime soon. Perhaps I will forgo the blinkers for now. At least until I get the wheels back on. On a side not, I found 3 dead mice in the headliner as I pulled it out yesterday. Pretty sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 When I replaced my flasher, the thermal unit over the counter was too weak to power all of the lights. I replaced the thermal flasher with an electrical solid state one and my issues went away. You could try the same before tearing into the wiring further. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 I recommend a solid state flasher, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 The flasher switch is behind the steering wheel, probably good to keep on track with fixing stuff as you go and not put it in the "to hard basket" because you end up with lots of things in the to hard basket and the car just sits there because "its to hard" Yes, a solid state flasher is best, just a side note though, flasher units need a "load" to work Not sure what state of apart your car is, but make sure you have bulbs in your lights or it wont even try to flash. Oh and you can keep your hitch hikers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 The car is pretty much together. It goes well and stops very well after the new MC, WC's and brake lines. Interior is decrepit. Not sure how long this thing sat, but those mice were there for a while. ALL LIGHTS ARE GO! Mostly.....I pulled the steering wheel off and cleaned the connections in the directional switch in the steering column and presto! The last issue I'm having (hopefully) with these fah-king lights, is what seems like a short...or a ground issue. But the grounds are good. This I know, probably. So, I get a break signal in the passenger side tail light when I press the brake, this is good. However, the driver side tail light goes black. No tail light or brake light. The bulb looks good, going to change it when I shut my shop down at 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2thesea Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 It was the bulb. All systems are go. Thanks to all for taking the time to answer my novice questions. I've learned quite a bit the past week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBulldogMiller55Buick Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Hooray !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 I like how sometimes people learn why tradesman ask for money These problems were not difficult for the "trained eye" and would not have taken long to sort out But, I will say that its good to get an appreciation of whats involved (especially in fault finding) on a simple car and its always good to learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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