More new(old) stuff!

[moose50]

This my new 25 3/4 ton truck.  I was told that it started out in Nevada, then in 1968 it was bought and brought to New Hampshire.  The new owner died in 1970, and it stayed in the same garage until yesterday!  

 

The book that I have says that only 186 pick-ups were made in 1925.  This one is number A303303.  The 1968 Nevada ownership certificate that came with it, calls it a 1927 screen truck.  There is also a 1951 registration with the same vehicle number that calls it a 1925 Screen.

 

Was this one converted?  

 

It is very complete, but the engine is a 27 C model.  Has the two unit starter and generator, and a 6 volt battery.  Motor number is C864xxx.  So it definitely had an engine swap at some point.

[moose50]

Here's the back and corner of the cab.  What do you think?

[moose50]

Update:  The engine turns over!  But all four exhaust valves are stuck open...

[JACK M]

Fun stuff.

[jan arnett (2)]

I think it started life as a screen side based upon one little detail.  It has a snap on the bed top  for the screenside to mount to.

[stakeside]

Do you have a frame number. It may be on your paper work and should be begin with an "E", "S", or "D". It should be on the front left frame above the spring mount bracket.

Also could you measure the wheel base from front hub to back hub.

[moose50]

The paperwork number starts with A.  I'll dig into the frame number next.  What would the different letters indicate?

[moose50]

The mystery continues...  Frame number is A-780429  wheelbase is 116"

 

This is definitely not a surviving 1 of 186 1925 pick up, that's for sure, but still awesome none the less.

 

The engine number(C864xxx) and frame number are not off by that much, so maybe it is original to the chassis?  

Edited December 16, 2015 by moose50 (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Check out the attached Dodge Truck Serial Guide. Note the "DCT" model with the 116" wheelbase. I will check to see if I have a photo of a DCT model.

The frame number is located on the right side on the earlier trucks.

The prefix letters designate the production plant location and they are: "E" Evansville, "D" Deroit, and "S" Stocton.

Is there a toeplate on the floor board passenger side?

[moose50]

Check out the attached Dodge Truck Serial Guide. Note the "DCT" model with the 116" wheelbase. I will check to see if I have a photo of a DCT model.

The frame number is located on the right side on the earlier trucks.

The prefix letters designate the production plant location and they are: "E" Evansville, "D" Deroit, and "S" Stocton.

Is there a toeplate on the floor board passenger side?

image.jpeg

 

It seems to be a 1927 car chassis, 116 wheelbase with A780xxx stamped on the passenger farm rail above the shackle of the front spring.  I can't find a toeplate.  Would it be on the wood floor board, or the metal of the firewall?  

 

It came with the 24" wood wheels.  Had the heavy duty 8 ply 33 x 4-1/2 tires too.  Really makes me wonder about its history.

[Chrycoman]

That list of serial numbers with E, C, and D are actually for Graham Brothers trucks.  Chrysler Corporation acted as if the Graham Brothers truck did not exist after the Graham Brothers name was dropped, and that trucks were named Dodge before 1929.

 

E was for the Graham Brothers plant in Evansville (became Plymouth assembly plant for the 1936 model year)

 

C was for the GB plant in Stockton, California

 

D was for the Dodge Brothers plant on Lynch Road in Detroit (built in 1917 for WW I contracts and later became the Detroit Axle Plant)

 

Graham Brothers trucks were also built in Toronto but the Toronto plant, as far as I can tell, used Detroit chassis and engine numbers.

 

The "A" numbers are for Dodge Brothers cars and trucks,

[stakeside]

I have a 29 DB 3/4 ton. It was built in Stockton CA and the frame number prefix is "S". Not sure about the "C" code for Stockton. The attached photo show my toeplate for my truck.It is a reproduction since my original was half rusted. Also this is the location on the floor board.

[stakeside]

I have a 29 DB 3/4 ton. It was built in Stockton CA and the frame number prefix is "S". Not sure about the "C" code for Stockton. The attached photo show my toeplate for my truck.It is a reproduction since my original was half rusted. Also this is the location on the floor board.

[moose50]

Yeah, I've got no toe plate, it may be long gone...  The wood floor boards are in good shape, though.  Maybe replaced when the body switch happened?  The cab and top both look like the they were a 25 screen side- the split windshield, and the curved, angled wood roof, and four hinges per door.  The 25 steering box and timing/idle speed controls don't quite match up to the 27 engine.

 

Are there any other places that the body number would be?  

 

Also, it still has a gas ration sticker on the windshield!

[moose50]

 

Also, it still has a gas ration sticker on the windshield!

[Ron Lawson]

Hello Moose, It seems that your truck has quite a history with it. It is what we call a "Bitza" in the land Down Under. I think that is rather unique to find one like this. Even though it is not correct in every way as it left the factory this is what folks did to have an operational  vehicle. Who knows what body was on your frame when new its what you have now that's important and if you restored it as is it is still part of the automobile history. Down here many sedans and touring cars were "uted" during the 2nd World War as gas rationing vouchers were issued more readily for " commercial "vehicles  Also once a car had finished its normal life they were worth more to the owner to keep and use (with modifications) on the farm and so forth  

My 1928 Senior 6 Tourer was modified and made into a mobile electric welder Mind you it was a very professional job that was done but I would rather have my wife sitting next to me in the front seat NOT a welder 

Please keep us informed here on your plans and progress Ron

[stakeside]

I have this reprint of "The Mechanics Instruction Manual" and it has some information you could use.

The 116" WB has many body options of which is the "Dodge Brothers Screen Body Commercial or 3/4 ton Graham".

Your A-780xxx is dated Sept.21 of 1927 series.

Also note the toeplate that was on the 27 DB Screenside.

[moose50]

Hello Moose, It seems that your truck has quite a history with it. It is what we call a "Bitza" in the land Down Under. I think that is rather unique to find one like this. Even though it is not correct in every way as it left the factory this is what folks did to have an operational  vehicle. Who knows what body was on your frame when new its what you have now that's important and if you restored it as is it is still part of the automobile history. Down here many sedans and touring cars were "uted" during the 2nd World War as gas rationing vouchers were issued more readily for " commercial "vehicles  Also once a car had finished its normal life they were worth more to the owner to keep and use (with modifications) on the farm and so forth  

My 1928 Senior 6 Tourer was modified and made into a mobile electric welder Mind you it was a very professional job that was done but I would rather have my wife sitting next to me in the front seat NOT a welder 

Please keep us informed here on your plans and progress Ron

I don't know the history of this truck, but I have a good idea of its future.  It will be kept as close to what it is now, as is possible.  I plan to make it drivable, solid and sturdy.  I have already pulled the oil pan for cleaning, the head is off and the valves are done.  Cylinders look good.  I'm going to add an oil filter just like I did on my speedster, because that seems to be working really well.  Next I'll go through the carburetor, fuel pump, starter and generator.  Then I'll work my way out from there, making sure everything works, doing the wiring over, making sure everything moves the way it should.  Then drive.

[stakeside]

The engine looks good. Not too much ridge on cylinder wall. Valves look they have plenty of thickness.

These old trucks are fun. Enjoy the journey.

[moose50]

The mystery continues.  Turns out the shift pattern is standard, with reverse to the left and forward.  And it has 4.10 gears.  The engine is number in the pickup is C864xxx, and my speedster is a D engine and has the earlier reverse shift pattern!

[moose50]

I am making progress.  In the last couple of weeks, I did the valves, had the head surfaced and cleaned.  Also went through and checked out the starter, generator, intake heat tube and filter, cleaned and painted also.  The carburetor and distributor oil pump are next.  Then I'll finish cleaning out the pan, and reassemble. 

[keiser31]

Looking great!

[JB-ed]

I seem to recall that the factory began using the standard transmission shift on trucks while continuing to use the DB pattern on cars. Personally I would not give up on the authenticity of your truck as yet until you can research it more fully.

You may want to purchase the Club's reprints.of articles on "trucks" as well as on the late four-cylinder cars to help in your investigation.

[moose50]

[keiser31]

NICE!

[MikeC5]

Purrs like a kitten.  Nice work!

[Texacola]

Hello Moose, I seemed to have missed this thread from the beginning. Anyway, I have the identical truck (actually "Commercial Car").

I believe yours is totally original and correct (there always seems to be a question concerning screenside vs p/u configurations). Yours ,A780xxx was built approx. 9/21/26 ('27 series). Mine ,A770xxx was built approx. 9/10/26. Our engines C864-xxx and C842-xxx are within perfect range.

Commercial cars have a heavier transmission with reverse up to the left.....yours is correct.

The only difference I can see between our two trucks is the back of the cabs. Yours is enclosed with a small window and mine is open with a roll up flap. Both have the bracket loops on the side of the cab just behind the doors on each side which were for the screen attachment on the screenside trucks.My guess is all the DB cabs had them . The question is did they start off as pickups or screensides? Mine was originally titled as an "Express"....???  Bill

[moose50]

Hello Moose, I seemed to have missed this thread from the beginning. Anyway, I have the identical truck (actually "Commercial Car").

I believe yours is totally original and correct (there always seems to be a question concerning screenside vs p/u configurations). Yours ,A780xxx was built approx. 9/21/26 ('27 series). Mine ,A770xxx was built approx. 9/10/26. Our engines C864-xxx and C842-xxx are within perfect range.

Commercial cars have a heavier transmission with reverse up to the left.....yours is correct.

The only difference I can see between our two trucks is the back of the cabs. Yours is enclosed with a small window and mine is open with a roll up flap. Both have the bracket loops on the side of the cab just behind the doors on each side which were for the screen attachment on the screenside trucks.My guess is all the DB cabs had them . The question is did they start off as pickups or screensides? Mine was originally titled as an "Express"....???  Bill

Wow Bill thanks!  A little more insight.  I'd love to see pictures of yours.  Under-hood too, please.

 

The thing I still can't figure out, is that the cab looks like a 25 and the steering column has the under hood controls that don't match up too well.  The throttle control is at an off angle, and the spark control looks like it is supposed to go over the nonexistent starter/generator, and is different than that of my late built 27.  Were they using leftover parts to build trucks?  Even the splash pans look like they were modified to fit the 27 engine, with cuts and then bent metal to allow the oil line go up at the back.

 

Oh yeah and the 1951 registration gives the number as a 1925- A303303 and is called a "SCREEN" I also have a 1968 Nevada ownership certificate that uses the same number, and calls it a 1927 Screen Truck. 

[countrytravler]

Just came across this thread. Awesome truck. We have a 25? screen side or merchant truck that we are parting out. Good luck on your rebuild.

Dave

Edited February 3, 2016 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[Texacola]

Moose, Your frame and engine #'s show your truck to be a 1926 build ('27 series). My truck is kind of in storage so new pics are a problem. I could only find one pic on my computer and have tried to attach (not sure it worked...never done it before).Anyway it would appear your cab is the same as mine. Not sure there was a difference between '25 and '26 built cabs...my guess they are the same.My guess is your '51 reg was for a different truck as the frame # clearly shows its a '26 (27 series). Mine was titled as a 1927 but I have seen several with VIN's after mine (in your range or after) that were titled as 1926 models. Guess it depends upon the State,etc.

One thing you could check is the Budd Body tag on the firewall. I'm not aware of ant lists which recorded the Budd #'s but I have to believe they would be in sequence.My truck was built approx 10k before yours and carries Budd Body # 20404. What is yours? If its after that I'd say your cab is also original to the chassis/engine.

As for you spark control rod...it should go behind the engine to the right side. A late '27 (D motor?) would have a different distributor position and spark control set up.

[moose50]

That is a beautiful truck!  I see a few differences, but they do seem to be very similar.  Are those 21" tires?  Mine has 24".  The roof line is different too.  Mine is angled, lower at the front, and doesn't have any lip over the front.  Is that a wood bed?  

[Texacola]

Yes the wheels are 21" which are correct. I missed that yours are 24" which I believe are correct for earlier years ('25?). Your frame # would be 21" so who knows? I would check your Budd Body # to see if its before or after mine.

My truck was restored by someone in Pa (originally titled there) about 15 years ago. The roof was redone and maybe not 100% correct. The over hang appears correct as it has an original metal piece above the windshield that juts out supporting the overhang.Most screensides I've seen have it.Pick ups?? The bed was redone in wood, not a bad job but I was going to replace it. I found a 1920's three compartment tanker body so its going to be a small Texaco tanker.....when I get around to it. Bill

[moose50]

On the firewall outside, upper drivers side is a tag with some peeling paint and rusted markings.  Then to the left of that stamped in the firewall are the numbers 29381.  Is this my body number?  If so then it certainly is a 27, huh?

[Texacola]

Yep...yours is a '27 (series). I had to climb over some stuff to get to it but I just re-read my #. I recorded it wrong 4 years ago. Thought it was 20404. Turns out the 0's were stamped lightly and upon a closer look are both 9's. My # is 29494. Actually a little after yours.But in the same period. Remember the "Commercial Cars" are on the passenger frame and the VIN's are in sequence. So the 10K vehicles between our two trucks was mostly cars. 

[Guest goob]

Moose50,

 

I too have a 1925 Dodge Brothers 3/4 ton Pickup, # A393XXX, built between July 21 and Aug 3.

 

Mine seems to be very original as well, although I just got it and have a lot to learn about Dodge Brothers.

 

I have 20 inch solid wheels and it appears to have come without a hard top.

 

The lower windshield glass is curved across the bottom, not flat like in the pictures

 

countrytravler posted.

 

here is a link to some pics    http://1drv.ms/1QHhpam

Edited February 4, 2016 by goob (see edit history)

[moose50]

Yesterday was the first time that this pickup has seen the light of day since the late 60's!  And I drove it out of the barn!  I can't afford the proper 24" tires yet so I put the 21" wheels and tires from my speedster.  Good times.

[Ron Lawson]

Thank you for sharing Moose she sure is a grand old truck 

[22touring]

"Turns out the shift pattern is standard, with reverse to the left and forward.  And it has 4.10 gears.  The engine is number in the pickup is C864xxx, and my speedster is a D engine and has the earlier reverse shift pattern!"

 

Carlton Perry (RIP) in the DBC News, date unknown, discussing DB passenger cars: " The primary difference between a 126 and a 124 [remember, the 126 preceded the 124, which was followed by the 128/129] is the engine and transmission. Transmissions were newly-designed and had standard shift patterns. Dodge "commercials" (trucks) had gone to this new transmission about a year earlier because the new design was supposed to be tougher."

 

I have heard DB old-timers say that the standard-shift transmission was indeed engineered amazingly strong and would run virtually forever under load without appreciable wear. I know that earlier DBs had gained a reputation for having gear whine in second, and my theory is that the DB engineers decided to eliminate that problem by upsizing everything when they redesigned the shift pattern.

[moose50]

I finally got it registered, a couple of days before Thanksgiving!  Today I put around 15 miles on it.  No issues.  Delivered a repaired snowblower with it, then went on a service call.  Definitely going to be a good work truck for me.

[keiser31]

COOL!