LAS VEGAS DAVE

THE OVERDRIVE MOD BEGINS

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Dave, sounds good to me, that will make less work for you. Lots of guys have good things to say about Lloyd so made the right choice and I think you will like the difference. Your Buick will be a bunch happier on the freeway.

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

I installed the new axle seals in the rear axle housing last night. The bearings and inner race are fine so I'm not replacing them. Lloyd received my shipment of the torque tube yesterday. He has some health issues he wants to take care of next week so it may be a week or two before he can work on it. I'm leaving on a two week motorcycle trip on wednesday so maybe when I get back he will have started on the project or at least I will have a better idea of the schedule.

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Ok guys does installing OD on these pre war buicks  affect their value? and How is this OD accomplished? And what will one expect to pay for it?

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Did Mr. Young tell you what your gear ratios and final drive ratio will be after the overdrive installation is complete?

 

The overdrive is a straight 30% reduction in engine speed, regardless of gear. High gear (1:1) becomes a .7. Alternatively, if you have 4.44 rear gears, it's like a 3.1 with the overdrive.

 

Ok guys does installing OD on these pre war buicks  affect their value? and How is this OD accomplished? And what will one expect to pay for it?

 

I do not think the overdrive affects value in a negative way unless you have a 400-point show car. Otherwise, it may help on cars set up for touring, which is a vast majority of us. It probably won't add enough value to cover its up-front cost, but the value in terms of driving comfort can't be underestimated. It totally transforms the way my 1929 Cadillac drives. Lloyd uses a Borg-Warner overdrive unit from a 1950s Ford and other makes. In the case of Buicks and my Cadillac, it's grafted into the torque tube using what Lloyd calls "half moon" castings, which are a way of adding flanges to the torque tube to which the overdrive can be bolted. The driveshaft inside is modified with a chain coupler meshing face-to-face and held together by chain links to mate the driveshaft to the overdrive unit (oriented like this: ll not like OO). Like this:

1410706-Coupler.jpg

I paid $2300 for it to be installed in my '29 Cadillac, plus another $1000 for the work that Las Vegas Dave is doing himself to get the torque tube out and reinstalled.

 

I am going to duplicate the mechanical setup I mentioned above on my '29 and hopefully reliability will go to 100%. The gearboxes themselves are pretty durable, but the solenoids are fragile. I'll post pictures and more information when I do it this winter. This will also allow me to use the overdrive at night, since my car doesn't have enough electricity to run both the headlights AND the overdrive...

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

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UPDATE: I heard from Lloyd today.  Lloyd said the machine shop will be done with it on Thursday and then he will go there and test it electrically and then repack it in my shipping crate and send it back to me. If I am lucky that's exactly what will happen. Still possible a problem will arise and set it back some, we will see. 

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Hi,

 

My hat is off to you for tackling this project.  Personally, the last thing I EVER want to have to do is to drop that *^&&*^!! torque tube!  Please continue to keep us advised as to progress!

 

--Tom

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Hi,

 

My hat is off to you for tackling this project.  Personally, the last thing I EVER want to have to do is to drop that *^&&*^!! torque tube!  Please continue to keep us advised as to progress!

 

--Tom

 

Tom it was also the last thing I wanted to do. Its not even half over with yet but eventually it will be done. I also obtained a stock radio for the car so another project will follow the overdrive. In the end I think I will like the results and I'll forget about all the little problems that needed to be overcome.  

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I am very curious in how all this is done. will you please post pics as you go so I can see exactly how the overdrive is built and modifications made to make it work?

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YES, I WILL POST PICTURES WHEN I GET THE OVERDRIVE BACK BEFORE I INSTALL IT. I WILL ALSO SHOW THE ELECTRIC SWITCHES ETC NEEDED TO COMPLETE THE TASK.

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I just talked to Lloyd again a few hours ago. He now has my overdrive back from the machine shop and he is going to paint it and then repack it and ship it back to me. He said that mine had a tube inside the torque tube instead of a solid shaft like the others he has seen. He says that back in 38 Buick changed things and every car is not the exact same and that is why he needed me to send my torque tube assembly to him. The overall length can vary a little amongst the cars and the only way to get it perfect is to have the same one that came out of the car it was installed in. In any case it should arrive here next week or early the following week and then the fun begins again.  I've learned a lot about overdrives since I started on this project. In a normal overdrive there is a governor on the unit that mechanically spins, when the car reaches 28 mph the governor actuates a switch that lets the overdrive engage. Lloyd removes the governors and replaces it with a button attached to the side of the steering column. The driver holds the button in momentarily and lets off the gas pedal and the overdrive will engage. The driver replaces the governor. Another GREAT improvement in Lloyds set up is the fact that never again does the rear end have to be removed to remove the torque tube. He makes castings that let the torque tube come apart right at the overdrive unit and the drive shaft is connected via two double tooth sprockets that are face to face with a chain connecting the two. The chain has a master link so it can let the sprockets separate. I wii take some pictures when I take the whole assembly out of the shipping crate.

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Another benefit of Lloyd's system is that you can remove the tranny and the clutch without removing the rear end and torque tube.

 

He did that for my 1912 Oakland, and other cars  --  wonderful improvement in driving, and Lloyd is a true gentleman, as well as being well-versed in early cars.

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Another benefit of Lloyd's system is that you can remove the tranny and the clutch without removing the rear end and torque tube.

 

He did that for my 1912 Oakland, and other cars  --  wonderful improvement in driving, and Lloyd is a true gentleman, as well as being well-versed in early cars.

 

Marty, the torque tube must and can be removed without having to remove the rear end and then the trans and clutch can be removed. 

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Hi,

 

@Las Vegas Dave:

 

Marty, the torque tube must and can be removed without having to remove the rear end and then the trans and clutch can be removed. 

 

 
 
How?
 
--Tom

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Tom, I will post pictures when I get the assembly back from Lloyd. The best I can explain it is that Lloyd makes a casting he adds to the torque tube. The casting halves bolt together to make the torque tube one piece. When the halves are not bolted together the torque tube becomes a two piece and can be disconnected at the overdrive unit and removed. The actual driveshaft is also a two piece that can be split by the removal of a four row chain with a master link. Once the torque tube and driveshaft are out of the way the trans can be removed for a clutch replacement or whatever. The rear end never gets touched. Lloyd has done hundreds of these over the last 40 years.

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Tom, I will post pictures when I get the assembly back from Lloyd. The best I can explain it is that Lloyd makes a casting he adds to the torque tube. The casting halves bolt together to make the torque tube one piece. When the halves are not bolted together the torque tube becomes a two piece and can be disconnected at the overdrive unit and removed. The actual driveshaft is also a two piece that can be split by the removal of a four row chain with a master link. Once the torque tube and driveshaft are out of the way the trans can be removed for a clutch replacement or whatever. The rear end never gets touched. Lloyd has done hundreds of these over the last 40 years.

 

Yes Dave,

 

Thanks for improving my simplified and incomplete description. The bottom line is that you can remove the tranny and clutch without removing the rear end.

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According to the freight company the crate will arrive here in Las Vegas either Friday or Monday. i think tomorrow will be a good day to start replacing my brake shoes so that the backing plate assemblies will be done and ready to bolt back on to the rear end housing. I'm thinking that by the end of next week the underneath of the car might be finished. I have no idea yet about the electrics or the overdrive cable installation. Lloyd told me to call him as questions arise, he is very helpful. We take guys like Lloyd for granted but most of us are getting old and those with special skills like Lloyd are getting harder and harder to find.

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post-154011-0-96128500-1440471231_thumb.post-154011-0-79343800-1440471214_thumb.Today the overdrive arrived. I have it out of the crate now and maybe tomorrow afternoon I will start to install it. Its supposed to rain here so since I work outside I may have to wait. In any case its getting closer. Here is a picture.

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  Thank you, Dave. I would like to be there helping. I did a gear change on  mine, from a 4.11 to a 3.36. While it did what I wanted by reducing the hi gear engine rpm by about 650 , it did rob the car oh its low speed hi gear performance. Yours will maintain that.

 

  Ben

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Dave,

 

Can you post some closer pics of the unit itself and also how it is mated to the torque tube and to the rear end?

 

How's Lloyd doing?

 

Thx

 

Brian

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If I start to do the installation this afternoon I will take a few more pictures. Lloyd seems to be doing fine. Hopefully I'll have more to say tonight.

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Thats my next big dream too,

I'm jaelous of you....

I'm courious about your experienses with it.

If i win in the lottery (but im not playin ;) then i send my tube also to lloyd.

Edited by jenz38 (see edit history)
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post-154011-0-98868100-1440532649_thumb.post-154011-0-64256900-1440532659_thumb.post-154011-0-60880500-1440532669_thumb.post-154011-0-09250600-1440532678_thumb.post-154011-0-29055400-1440532692_thumb.I'm still planning on starting the installation in a few hours, weather permitting. I just took these pictures for those that are interested in a little closer look at the overdrive as it is bolted to the torque tube. 

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Make sure your free-wheeling cable moves the lever through the entire range of travel. If it doesn't go from stop to stop, you'll either hear grinding or you won't have reverse. Make sure your cable has a full range of travel from the IN position to the OUT position. Mine didn't fully disengage and I didn't have reverse the first time I drove it--kind of alarming.

 

Also, keep the solenoid away from heat. Mine was pretty close to my exhaust, so I added some shielding and some heat wrap around the exhaust pipe itself, which helped a bit. A brand new solenoid helped, too, but they're pricey ($250).

 

Make sure you use the right kind of gear oil in it--the overdrives are very sensitive to the proper kind of fluid. I think it's GL1, non-synthetic. There are bronze parts in the overdrive and they won't like hypoid gear oil or anything more than GL1.  It's available from NAPA and isn't very expensive. I jack up my car on one side when I fill it to add a few extra ounces because mine leaks--a lot.

 

If you get stuck on wiring or anything like that, or general operation (which can be confusing at first), let me know, I'm happy to help!

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Make sure your free-wheeling cable moves the lever through the entire range of travel. If it doesn't go from stop to stop, you'll either hear grinding or you won't have reverse. Make sure your cable has a full range of travel from the IN position to the OUT position. Mine didn't fully disengage and I didn't have reverse the first time I drove it--kind of alarming.

 

Also, keep the solenoid away from heat. Mine was pretty close to my exhaust, so I added some shielding and some heat wrap around the exhaust pipe itself, which helped a bit. A brand new solenoid helped, too, but they're pricey ($250).

 

Make sure you use the right kind of gear oil in it--the overdrives are very sensitive to the proper kind of fluid. I think it's GL1, non-synthetic. There are bronze parts in the overdrive and they won't like hypoid gear oil or anything more than GL1.  It's available from NAPA and isn't very expensive. I jack up my car on one side when I fill it to add a few extra ounces because mine leaks--a lot.

 

If you get stuck on wiring or anything like that, or general operation (which can be confusing at first), let me know, I'm happy to help!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by LAS VEGAS DAVE (see edit history)

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