1955 Oil Pan Sludge

[Paul Falabella]

The pan is off and while not the worst I've seen, still plenty of sludge. Probably 1/2 to 3/4" layer. My question; is the pickup removed by the two screws circled? Or maybe just submerge it in a pan of Simple Green on a trolley jack?

Thanks,

Happy Holiday

[old-tank]

Paul

Yes, it is removed by taking out the indicated screws. After you get it out the screen can be popped out of the housing for cleaning.

Willie

[NTX5467]

You might have a little better luck with the sludge removal/cleaning by using an oil-based product and letting it soak to emulsify/soften it, rather than a de-greaser per se. As I have better luck in getting motor oil "things" off of my hands by first "washing" them in sun tan oil to liquefy the accumulated oil, then using soap for the final cleaning. Kind of like many hand cleaners having oil-based items in them for the same purpose, by observation, but without having to purchase something I don't already have.

In reading the www.bobistheoilguy.com forums, it seems that ester-based motor oil is an emulsifier/cleaner of sorts. At one time, GM recommended an oil change of Mobil 1 to help a "cold start knock" in Chevy 5.7L V-8s. That sounded strange until I found the post about ester-based oils being "cleaners" as the esters helps emulsify the "accumulation" in the engine's oil passages. Motor oils without the ester base stock have to have other additives to do the same thing, it seems.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Paul Falabella]

Thanks, will get that off and try a Kerosene soak and then a Simple Green soak. The pan bolts came clean after an over night soak. Similar looking schmutz. The nastiest stuff is at the very bottom of the pan. Very thick greyish sludge.

[DonMicheletti]

In "recent history" I just started with a putty knife to get the majority of the crud out and went from there.

However... there is the real "old timers" way to get it really clean. I got it from my dad who started working on cars in the teens (1900's that is).

Pour some gas in the pan, light it on fire and go do something else until the fire has gone out and the pan has cooled. You'll be left with some dry ash that can just be dumped out. It actually works. There are similar more modern and environmentally friendly ways of doing the same thing just with heat.

I have to also say that I havnt used this method in many years - the neighbors might not like all the black smoke!

[60FlatTop]

Yeah, we used to burn the rubber from regrooving tires for heat in the winter. Tires got to be an environmental hazard so you can't do that any more. Even the coal plants have scrubbers.

It's hard to find black smoke at all anymore.

Ooops!

Bernie

[old-tank]

Paul, if that pan has never been off since new, that gray stuff is probably lead residue from the fuel and is highly toxic especially to children, pets and livestock. Put it and solvent residue in a paint can and take to your local hazardous waste site.

After soaking the parts in your kerosene, flush with brake cleaner and blow dry. Then wash with concentrated Simple Green and don't try to get all the stain off. One other thing to check: if you find carbon particles in the screen, that is an indication that the rings and cylinders are worn (ring gap increases and allows carbon from the combustion chamber to pass into the oil) --- you would also have some blow-by.

If the rear main seal is leaking, now is a good time to fix...details on my website.

Willie

[Paul Falabella]

What's the trick getting the pickup screen to come out? Trying not to be to aggressive with a screwdriver blade in order to not bend the screen frame.

[old-tank]

Paul

Clamp the tube near the housing in a vise (padded jaws) and use 2 screwdrivers. Even then I have bent the housing and screen frame...just massage it back to shape.

Willie

[Paul Falabella]

That did the trick,Thanks Willie

Won't be torching the pan, clean enough with degreasers. As we say around here; 100% better.

[Lapham3]

Bernie Daily-you give me a chuckle What happened with that wind generator? Reminds me of when a few local governments here in Minnesota got some used generators from somewhere. They put them up to find when it got to winter they wouldn't turn. The story was the gear box lube was too thick and they couldn't/worldn't r+r with a thinner/synthetic til spring=ooops indeed!

[Guest 54fins]

great suggestions. my personal solvent of choice is diesel- its easy to get. The bottom line here from my years of tinkering is the sludge has got to go- nothing will turn your engine into a boat anchor faster than that left over engine sludge. a piece will plug an oil passage. The tricky part is old engines can be surprisingly easy to start and it's your natural tendency to want to start them. My track record is that every old engine I "de-sludge" still runs great even if they do smoke. almost Every engine that I didn't de-sludge froze up or dropped a valve. Unfortunately the oil pan only shows you what is hiding in the motor. I find that the only way to clean the internals without an overhaul is hot. After years of experimenting my preferred choice is running the motor with ATF and 10 wt oil while flushing the radiator. Nothing dissolves the sludge like hot ATF, the stinky stuff has to keep the servos clean in a tranny and it's mighty powerful stuff.

[FLYER15015]

The pan is off and while not the worst I've seen, still plenty of sludge. Probably 1/2 to 3/4" layer. My question; is the pickup removed by the two screws circled? Or maybe just submerge it in a pan of Simple Green on a trolley jack?

Thanks,

Happy Holiday

[ATTACH=CONFIG]287933[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]287934[/ATTACH]

Paul,

First question is, "how's your oil pressure?"

If you pull the 2 bolts at the top of picture #2 you can remove the oil pump, and take off the bottom plate and check it for "flat" and leak passages around the edge.

Just emory the bottom plate till it is smooth, add a THIN coat of Permatex #2 around the edge, and reinstall. Also check the pressure relief spring and piston (behind that big brass nut), and make sure the piston is "free". I put a 3/8" nut behind my spring and got LOTS of oil pressure.

I polished mine with scotch brite.

Mike in Colorado

Edited December 29, 2014 by FLYER15015 (see edit history)

[Paul Falabella]

Oil pressure was always good, even though the pickup screen was pretty sludged up. Soaked it in kerosene, then Simple Green, Then blew it out with Brake Cleaner. Pretty clean now. Gonna replace the heater hoses while I'm under here. Will post cleaned up pics in a bit.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Paul Falabella (see edit history)

[buick man]

Since you have the pan off and while the oil pump is out may we suggest the following: Take off the oil filter boss plate from block and clean the diverter valve ball n spring inside. While the pump is off get a gallon jug of of kerosene and a gallon jug of Marvel Mystery Oil and a 3/8 inch clear hose tubing about 5 feet long from the hardware store. Put a concrete mixing pan under the engine then stick one end of the hose into the orifice where the oil pump goes up into and other attach a hand, drill or DC operated pump at the other end with about 3 feet on the other end and stick it into the kerosene first and start pumping. You will need to momentarily reattach you block oil filter boss and oil filter (without internal filter) housing back on so the solutions pumped will by pass the check ball in the boss and direct the oil into the engine internals. Afterward this prescribed purge is completed, just remove and perform a 2nd quick n easy cleaning of the oil boss once again.

This procedure will safely flush the entire block oil galley ports and internal passage ways out completely including purging out the cam galley, crankshaft galley and up into the lifter arm shafts internals. Have some one turn the crank pulley 7/8 inch nut a few crank rotations now and then while you are doing this. After things start running clear, switch over to the Marvel Mystery Oil gallon and continue the process. When done you will have a completely flushed and purged engine. Reconnect oil pump and oil filter boss housing and reinstall pan. Always as a final rinse after cleaning any parts or pans, use kerosene as it is a carrier of solute particles, then apply a coating of MMOil to the surface. We believe MMOil is really a form of ATF without the acrid fish oil smell of ATF. As kerosine will completely strip the substrate surfaces, the MMOil is applied to eliminate any possibility of flash blushing of the surface areas. This way the motor is completely clean and you can go ahead and run your oil for the life of it's intended usage/mileage cycle. This method eliminates using your running engine as a washing machine and catch basin while your running your internally uncleaned motor hoping to "flush" it out with a quick motor oil change or on a short run then flush basis.

Have fun n good luck and show us some finished photos.

Edited December 30, 2014 by buick man (see edit history)

[Paul Falabella]

Like an OK Used car. Those front bolts under the crossmember are PITA. First thing I buy when I hit Powerball is a Lift!!

[g-g-g0]

" Those front bolts under the crossmember are PITA. First thing I buy when I hit Powerball is a Lift!!"

I bought a used Backyard Buddy 4 poster off of Craigslist a year or so ago for half of a new one and it is the greatest!!! Also provides a storage spot for additional toy's!!

[buick man]

A nod to the lift for sure. Got a BendPak scissor lift off of craigslist this past fall. You drive up over it and then raise via the frame between the front and back wheels and still walk around underneath or remove trans etc.

Plan on recessing it into the concrete slab on my new workshop slab floor when that happens.

Looks good Paul. Did you formulate your own engine paint color from urethane or enamel or did you buy the paint already mixed ?

… oh, the pan looks straight and looks like you remembered to lay it down first on a known flat surface to flatten and straighten the rim and bolt holes in the pan before painting it :")

Edited December 31, 2014 by buick man (see edit history)

[Paul Falabella]

Paint is rattle can from CARS. Other than the sludge inside and thick covering of oil/ATF/PS Fluid/Road Grime outside, pan was in pretty good nick.

So even if you have good oil pressure, it pays to look in that pan if you're not sure it was ever done!

Happy New Year!

[buick5563]

That paint does look good. It will never match anything else, but that batch looks good.

[Paul Falabella]

Actually it does match the valve covers, intake manifold, valley cover, water pump and thermostat housing, spark plug covers and a few other bits. Pretty close to original nailhead green.

[buick5563]

Good job Paul,

I am not ragging any supplier with this statement, but I have had wild variations between spray cans and EXTREME differences between spray and quart, and I have bought at least enough for ten engines.

Just sayin'.

[NTX5467]

(10 engines??)

[buick5563]

Yep. Not all completely rebuilt, but valve and spark plug covers, with intake manifolds and various water pumps add up over the years.

[Marty Roth]

Not saying it is the best way, but.......

years ago I bought a beater of a 1960 Valiant with way over a couple of hundred thousand miles on it. It ran poorly, missing, and using lots of oil. A Porsche mechanic/friend met me at his shop in nLong Island City, NY on a Saturday morning. I drove onto a set of ramps, drained the oil, changed the filter, and added a mixture of 60% 10W-40 detergent oil and 40% ATF. We partially blocked the radiator with cardboard and ran the engine at about 1700 RPM for about 20 minutes at high temperature just below overheating - then immediately drained the oil. We repeated this process with fresh filters 3 or 4 times until the drained oil came out as clean as it went in, and then did another change with just detergent oil. The end result was that the "stuck" rings freed-up and stopped the oil consumption, and the newly-cleaned valve lifters started working properly. The old slant six ran like a charm for years afterward and was then passed on to a friend who, as far as I know may still be driving it.

The flush did a great job of cleaning out the accumulated sludge and bringing back many miles of useful life.

[old-tank]

Not saying it is the best way, but.......

years ago I bought a beater of a 1960 Valiant with way over a couple of hundred thousand miles on it. It ran poorly, missing, and using lots of oil. A Porsche mechanic/friend met me at his shop in nLong Island City, NY on a Saturday morning. I drove onto a set of ramps, drained the oil, changed the filter, and added a mixture of 60% 10W-40 detergent oil and 40% ATF. We partially blocked the radiator with cardboard and ran the engine at about 1700 RPM for about 20 minutes at high temperature just below overheating - then immediately drained the oil. We repeated this process with fresh filters 3 or 4 times until the drained oil came out as clean as it went in, and then did another change with just detergent oil. The end result was that the "stuck" rings freed-up and stopped the oil consumption, and the newly-cleaned valve lifters started working properly. The old slant six ran like a charm for years afterward and was then passed on to a friend who, as far as I know may still be driving it.

The flush did a great job of cleaning out the accumulated sludge and bringing back many miles of useful life.

This would be about the only time to use "miracle-in-a-can/bottle or atf"... when the engine is nearly terminal anyhow. Hot and high speed driving with 0W-20 oil would probably do the same thing. On an early Buick nailhead there is over a quart trapped in the oil passages that will not be removed with a change.

Short term exposure to these agents probably will not hurt. You could even add a quart of water and drive until it evaporated with maybe no ill effects...but why? ( unless broke like I was with a block leak and only enough money to by a can of K&W block sealer on what I though was a near terminal car worth $50 )

Willie

[buick man]

Great story Marty. Yeah if you recall back then these were known as the route man's car or the salesmen's chariot. That's because these Valiants with their slant sixes were notorius for never letting anyone down. Ran and ran forever and must of literally bulletproof to get that kind of reputation. Try that in any other car that has been on a long sleep and the bearings will take a major beating what with all the crap being washed through the engine this way not to mention the more than probable possibility of clogging up the pickup screen in the pan as well.

[Larry Schramm]

great suggestions. my personal solvent of choice is diesel- its easy to get. The bottom line here from my years of tinkering is the sludge has got to go- nothing will turn your engine into a boat anchor faster than that left over engine sludge. a piece will plug an oil passage. The tricky part is old engines can be surprisingly easy to start and it's your natural tendency to want to start them. My track record is that every old engine I "de-sludge" still runs great even if they do smoke. almost Every engine that I didn't de-sludge froze up or dropped a valve. Unfortunately the oil pan only shows you what is hiding in the motor. I find that the only way to clean the internals without an overhaul is hot. After years of experimenting my preferred choice is running the motor with ATF and 10 wt oil while flushing the radiator. Nothing dissolves the sludge like hot ATF, the stinky stuff has to keep the servos clean in a tranny and it's mighty powerful stuff.

As much as 15% by volume of ATF is additives including detergents, anti-foaming agents and the like.

[Lapham3]

K+W block sealer-reminds me of 1969 and blowing a head gasket on my '65 Pont GP in Lordsburg NM and rolling into an old dusty truck stop. A can of that sealed it up and I continued to drive the car until my wife tried to take down a telephone pole a couple years later. I don't think ATF have detergents. Dan Mpls. Mn.