bhclark Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I took my '58 Super over to the other garage for winter. Upon pulling in the garage, smoke was coming out from under the hood. The wiring was on fire. Melted everything from the headlights to and through the body harness before I got it out with the extinguisher. What a mess.I've called in to my insurance company. They said I wouldn't hear from the adjuster until probably Tuesday. I'm sure hoping they cover this! Then, I'll have to figure out who to send it to. I've got too much else going on to deal with this! I certainly can't do the work to repair it.No pictures yet. I'll take some when I meet the adjuster this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Brian,What a shame! Did you have any electrical accessories on at the time of the fire? Any after-market accessories been added to this car? Need to isolate the cause before you replace it all, if possible. Your options to replace the wiring are (1) have a new wiring harness made by one of the many companies that make them. I like Rhode Island Wiring. Or, (2) find a similar car and take out the portion of the wiring harness that you need, and graft the replacement into your car. I've done it both ways. Grafting in a partial wiring harness is okay if the grafts are in a hidden area such as all under the dashboard, which is what was the case in a '57 Chrysler that I once owned, but you wouldn't want to connect/tape/graft wires in the middle of the engine compartment where they are on view for everyone.At least you were putting the car away for the winter, so it's not like you have to do the repairs right away. Good luck.Pete Phillips, BCA #7338 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 In "grafting-in" the replacement harness section, I'd recommend you NOT have all of the wires to be re-connected snipped at the same place, but stagger these points to not have a big lump in the harness, but a less noticeable "longer, smaller lump", if possible. But then, again, depending upon how the harness is configured, it might be better to get the whole forward lighting harness and plug it all in as a complete item.Of course, finding/determining the reason for the whole situation would be good, too.Please keep us updated.Thanks,NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 I just can't have nice things! No aftermarket accy. I was running the heater on the drive over. If I remember correctly, one of the relays above the voltage regulator was glowing, but it was all a blur as I was more concerned with the extinguisher. The insulation on the other side of the body plug, inside the car was glowing as well. Took me a while to figure out where the additional smoldering was coming from. When I hit it with the extinguisher, it disintegrated. I had to tear away the cardboard covering the insulation to get to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Oh man, that's terrible. Sorry to hear it. But dude, you gotta feel good that you were responsible enough to have the fire extinguisher and had your wits about you to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Koala Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Maybe the points in the voltage regulator stuck closed when you turned the engine off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Brian, do you recall someone on the b-59 site having this problem? I believe it was voltage regulator related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 Yes. Barry Fitzjarrold had a similar issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 In the mid 1990's when I was servicing collector cars we had a melt down of a '59 Caddy generator from a shorted armature. Luckily it only took out the regulator and the generator.I have been reading this forum since 2006 and more frequently think I should reopen those services. It looks like a lot of people are having work done in shops that don't understand their cars and are paying a pretty big penalty to train the "mechanics" while still ending up with poor results.I am in western New York, about 60 miles east of Buffalo. Maybe fixing your car would be a good return to the business job for me. Although it wouldn't be cheap the quality of the job would reflect the value of the car. PM me if you are interested. At least I am older than the car.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Probably the the horn relay which is not fuse protected. I fried wiring harnesses on two 55's, once from a horn relay and the other from the wires on the vacuum start switch which also is not fuse protected. You will have to isolate and replace at least one wire; those in the wiring bundle next to it may need to be separated and taped where the insulation is melted. A new harness would be best if available and if the insurance will spring for parts and labor.What a mess!...I'm feeling sick all over again.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 In the early 1990's a friend bought a 1958 Rolls-Royce That vandals had thrown a lit flare into, right on the front seat. Those cars have a charging plug on the dashboard that connects, unfused to the battery in the boot. When the insulation burned off the hot wire everything fused together, front to rear. I had to label and remove the burned harness, spread it out on a 4X8 table and start cutting wires apart and cataloging the length, terminal ends, gauge, and color. Now that's a mess! And no other options. Everything is still working. A couple of years later I disassembled my Riviera underhood harness to make a few repairs and tidy up the plugs, then rewrapped it. It is kind of fun once you get going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Although it wouldn't be cheap the quality of the job would reflect the value of the car. PM me if you are interested. At least I am older than the car.BernieHey Bernie, My 55 is only worth about $3000. it's a 4dr Special in "running condition". What kind of quality should I expect if you worked on it? TexasJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 "Hey Bernie, My 55 is only worth about $3000. it's a 4dr Special in "running condition". What kind of quality should I expect if you worked on it? TexasJohnNow THAT's funny! I am laughing hard!!!!Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Geez Brian,Sooo sorry to hear of your problem!It truly made me shudder when I read this as I had the same problem (not really sure what the problem was then) with my Special when it was my everyday car back in the early 70's! Not going to be much help for you here but can only relate to the feelings you must have felt at the time! Mine shorted out to the point the starter was engaged and I didn't have the presence of mind in the moment of panic to disconnect the battery (which is what the Fire Department suggested I do)..... let alone have a fire extinguisher (back then)..........My insurance covered the cost then to have a shop replace both the harness under the hood and under the dash (although used) plus check the body and trunk wiring. My only hint at a problem was that the parking lights came on without being turned on about a week before the issue became almost a fire under the hood! Again, not much help, but I feel your pain!Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 John, I have done repair work on restored cars, never restoration. A low valued car puts the risk of an automotive virgin being involved. Not interested and the other shops made sure I never got one of those- did they ever!Hey, how about another reality show "Virgin Car Restorer".Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 Insurance company told me today to find a local shop to quote the repair and troubleshoot what caused it.The mechanical part that caused the fire is not covered, but all resulting damage is.Bernie, there is no one I would love to have work on it more than you, but I'm not sure the insurance company would cover the tow! I'm going to have to call a few places tomorrow and see it I can find a local shop that is qualified.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 Email sent to Rhode Island Wiring, no 1958 harness is listed in their on-line catalog.Cars lists wiring harnesses for 1958, but only for convertibles? Can't imagine there would be too much difference, a few extra wires maybe. Someone else is obviously making them for CARS...but a cursory google search was rather uneventful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 http://www.ynzyesterdaysparts.com/pdfs/Buick.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Awesome. Thanks.Now if I can find a spare fuse box and "directional signal connector bodies" so that we don't have to harvest from the original, that might save some time. Edited November 19, 2013 by bhclark (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Might have to call the ranch on that one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Well Brian,Maybe I can help after all. I believe I have the 'Fuse Box' saved from my old Limited but.. give me till this weekend to get into the garage and look for it unless you find a new one sooner and closer. "directional signal connector bodies" - Do you mean the plastic plug connectors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 I have no clue what they mean... copied and pasted from the ynz catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 "directional signal connector bodies" - Do you mean the plastic plug connectors?My gut suspicion is that those would be what the metal connector terminals plug into before the whole thing is plugged into its mating connectors. Sometimes, "heat" will melt the connectors but not damage the base wiring. I'd call them "insulators", I think. The metal terminals should have some sort of tang or locking portion on them which snap into and lock into the molded plastic insulators . . . keeps everything nice and neat and easy to deal with.Enjoy!NTX54657 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Would these connectors be inside the steering column?I took a few pics today and talked to a restoration shop that is supposed to be getting back with me on a rough estimate for the ins. co. for replacing the entire harness.Wires are burned up on both sides of the firewall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 There usually was a connector where the lamp harness mated with the steering column wiring . . . turn signal wires and also for the horn circuit. Back-up light (sometimes combined with the neutral safety switch on some models) switch, if it was down there on those earlier models, would be a separate switch and related wiring.Ultimate labor time to replace the wiring could be similar to a newer model, but determining where the original issue was would be the key "time consumer", I suspect.Thanks for the pictures. Please keep us posted.NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Every load should be tested for its ohmic value and fault to ground before installing the new harness. I would make a ladder diagram of each load, inside the engine compartment, in the interior, and a check off box it be sure.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Brian,Sorry to say my offer to help with the fuse box is a bust!Clearly it isn't useable in it's present condition. My guess is that you might be able to salvage yours?Or...I'm sure there is another one out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Brian,Check out Ebay. There is a used one currently listed for Buy It Now @ 35.00 with pics in Minn. There is also a Ph# listed to RPM Motor Sports: 1-888-2231-1864 for any questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 There is also a guy on eBay that is parting out two 58 super 4 doors, and the parts are all in really good shape. I'm not at my computer right now, but he always has several auctions going on at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadmaster75 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Hi Brian,Don't know if your car is a judged show car & originality is paramount, but, if not..perhaps a wholesale upgrade to an aftermarket piece like the "Painless" wiringproducts….?I've wired 4 cars with these so far & they go in nice and easy. Pre-terminated wiring at the boxwith modern blade fuses; and no bulkhead connector/blade worries.I think it would be easily adaptable to the 58 & you'dhave every circuit properly protected. Once it was in…who would know (unless you went all the waywith an internally regulated alternator!) Labor wise I'd bet it would take less time to put one inthan splicing in pieces of an old one.I keep thinking that even if you find a used harness …it's still 55 years old as are the connectors, etc.just a thought anyway.mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Here is one of the auctions that the guy is parting the Supers...might contact him and see if he has a harness.http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Buick-Super-Riviera-Roadmaster-Door-Edge-Trim-/350937802538?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51b585e72a&vxp=mtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Splicing is messy. If I am really forced to splice I make a lineman's splice and stagger them so they don't show under the harness cover. I have had all the harnesses out of my Riviera for cleaning and repair. New homeruns and terminals are always best. I have one splice and that is the apple green wire for the temperature sensor. At the time I couldn't get the correct color so I painted a yellow one green with a matching Krylon. My car is non-sticky tape wrapped. I made a tensioning jig for my vise from a 2X6 with a row of finishing nails along the top edge. Then I slipped the end terminals over the nails, held them tight, and rewrapped.Your car should have a woven wrap. I think Rhode Island Wire Works will cover that for you, once you make a new one.Where you burned the bundle at the firewall, I would cut off the bad stuff and connect the undamaged harness to a European terminal strip. Then a newly built harness would connect to the other side of the strip. That gets rid of splices and only leaves the terminal strip under the dash non-original.Here's an old picture of an unwrapped harness under repair:Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 http://www.ebay.com/itm/58-BUICK-FUSE-PANEL-BLOCK-BOX-TERMINAL-BRACKET-MOUNT-/140749285142?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20c54fa716&vxp=mtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Brian,I have been watching for an update. I remember in one post you wrote that your Dad (?) had some serious medical problems and now the cold has overtaken most of the US; nothing working with keeping our cars going.I hope things are working out the best for your family and that your car gets on its way back to good condition, as well. I have wiring diagrams for your car and if I can do anything from a distance to help progress, just let me know.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Mom passed on Nov 24th. The car is currently at a local restoration shop. They removed the fuse panel and turn signal parts and ordered a new wiring harness and are waiting on that to come back. He expects to start on it later this month.Preliminary investigation showed that everything from the headlights to the dash is fried, but the taillight harness is fine. It is expected that all relays/voltage regulator are fried as well. I plan on stopping in around the first of February to check progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackofalltrades70 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Brian,Sorry to hear of your mothers passing! May she rest in peace. Sorry for your loss brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Brian, Thank you for the update and my condolences on the loss of your Mom.Glad to hear the car is underway. Good luck,Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2_willys Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Horn relays can be a real bummer, as they take in a small current from horn ring and translate to high current for horns. I have a 54 Lincoln capri that the horn relay got stuck (probably from something in the column) and cooked my Optima 6V battree. And as was mentioned, no fuses! Make sure that all relays and regulator are replaced or checked properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadmaster75 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Brian,No … nothing that I know of . There should be a 12 Volt regulator on it.The car is all 12V. My engine harness burned up years ago due to me leaving the ignition on while I stupidly puta "fast charger/starter" with kazillions of amps on the battery. Went to get a cup oaf coffeeand 2 minutes later ….. the engine wiring was smoking!I had to replace every wire under the hood. Luckily the meltdown stopped right around the bulkhead and only melteda couple of terminals there. It still took me forever to replicate everything with new properly colored wire.The AMP gauge was fine, and so was the generator. I did have a burned up regulator and simply went to NAPAto get a new one; along with all new ignition parts.mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) You answered while I was deleting my post! He called back to say he was mistaken.I've found an NOS AMP gauge, so that's on the way.Hopefully, my spare Generator is good. That's the next thing to go in.He said the car blew his tester, but if he had it set for 6 volts, that would explain it. Edited March 4, 2014 by bhclark (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now