Can I remove the tires on my spit rims safely?

[Dwight Romberger]

Hi All,

Sorry, I meant to write split rims not spit rims.

I plan to remove the tires from my '30 wood spoke split rims.

I have heard all the horror stories.

I have a rim spreader.

My assessment is that I should remove the valve stem before I disassemble, and then have a professional reinstall the tires when I complete the refinishing.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Dwight

Edited May 15, 2013 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

I don't recall ever doing a split rim, so I have no "hands on" (or hands off) experience.

The problem is installing. If the parts are not seated, locked, or whatever the proper term might be. When you add air, they can fly off.

If you take out the Schrader valve and let out all the air, there is nothing in the tire to "propel" the rim and injure you.

[Marty Roth]

Dwight,

I have done this myself, but I would urge you to take them to a professional. Among many others here on the FORUM, I would suggest that you contact Barry Eash who has a restoration shop in Beaverdale/Windber, PA - outside of Johnstown.

You may contact me directly for his contact info.

Marty

[Dwight Romberger]

Thanks for the referral Marty. I will keep him in mind.

Dwight

[DonMicheletti]

Dwight,

I am 71 years old and I just changed all 5 tires on my 1918 Buick with split rims. I wouldnt say it was easy, but I did do it. If you have the correct rim spreader you can do it. Without the spreader it is a killer job. A little common sense goes a long way, and when you are putting the tires back on, the key to success is a whole lot of baby powder on the tires, flaps and tubes.

In putting the tires back on I put just enough air in the tube to fill the tire so it wouldnt pinch. Once I got the rim back in correctly, I mounted the tire and rim on the car and then inflated them to correct pressure. I had no trouble whatsoever.

Don

[Dwight Romberger]

Thanks Don. That is encouraging advice.

Is the E-45 the touring car?

Dwight

Edited May 16, 2013 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history)

[Guest Phil Cordery]

On my 1926 Master 6 , I have what I believe are called Pacific rims, where they have a locking device under the rim, which when opened allows the rim to collapse on itself, well I had a hell of a job trying to install a tyre, even when the rim was in the collapsed position I still could not get the tyre on to the rim, in the end we resorted to fitting the tyre on a rim machine with the rim in the closed locked position, I had seen the pics in one of the handbooks where it shows a tiny man fitting one of these by hand. well he must have had his Weetabix because it took 3 of us to fit the tyre.

[1937-44]

I have an Auburn with wood wheels and split rims and managed to break down and mount my tires without to much trouble. Yes, I used a rim spreader and the use of powder is definitely recommended. Another suggestion is before inflating touch up any chips in the paint to avoid getting paint on the tire. Carl

[60FlatTop]

None of these guys would change a split rim:

The boss said we don't change split rims and we don't flirt with rattlesnakes. We always sent the customers to a truck shop where they had the tools, experience, and a cage to inflate the tires in.

Bernie

[Brian_Heil]

I've changed out lots (8 new over the years) tires on my '23. First time I did it was without a rim spreader and it was a bear. With a spreader tool, its still no fun but you can do it and it is better than having the clueless kid at the tire store do it. Use lots of baby powder (talc) on the tube and inside tire. You will need two long tire 'spoons' or go to the junk yard and buy two tire irons and round off the ends so they won't damage the tube or tire.

Assume your rim is a 'C' shaped rim with a latch at the point where the two ends of the 'C' come together, not to be confused with the split rims on trucks that are dangerous and require a 'tire cage' when being worked on.

Besides the talc, the other hint an oldtimer gave me is to put about 10 PSI in the tire/rim and 'dribble' it to get everything to seat. He was right. You can also balance these on the front axle, with modern rim weights (I put them on the inside rim edge to hide them). Just raise the front axle and the heavy point will work its way downward, put a weight opposite until it no longer has a 'heavy' point.

Also watch the gap of rim to felloe as you tighten the wedges and try to keep this gap consistant. Re-tighten these after the first drive.

[DonMicheletti]

Dwight,

Yes, my car is an E-45. Kind od a tired old dog. it has been in constant use all its life. It was introduced to the hobby in 1953 when it was repainted - still has that paint in OK condition. I bought it in 1967. Last year I finally replaced the original upholstery. It was "ready". When we took the original upholstery off one of the rear doors we found a 1917 registration tag in perfect shape. Probably meaning that the car was probably sold in 1917

[Guest frazer51]

If I had read this correctly I get the impression we are talking about 2 different things. First I believe there are split rims as on the older cars and then there are split rings as used on larger trucks tires. The truck tires with split rings are the ones known to fly off and injury people. We used a heavy pipe rack cage that you placed the assembly in and then you added the air. If it blew then the ring would be trapped with in the cage. I never had a problem with the split rims and long as I had the proper spreader.

[Mark Shaw]

Dwight,

I agree with Brian and have changed several tires on teens, 20s & 30s cars. (Some here will remember that installed four new tires on a 24 Buick at the BCA National in MN).

I am allergic to perfumed baby powders, so I use corn starch to help get the new tube and flap properly installed inside the tire with just enough air to get the folds out of the tube. Use the rim spreader to collapse the rim inside itself, & you should have no trouble getting the tire on the collapsed rim. Then reverse the rim tool until you can latch the ends of the rim with the tire installed.

I like Brian's old timer suggestion to bounce the tire with 10 psi to get the tire seated before fully inflating the tire. As Brian said, these are not the old truck type split rims that are so dangerous (although I do have one Buick with clincher tires that have a locking ring like the old truck tires). Go for it with your rim tool and get a buddy to help you the first time.

[Dwight Romberger]

Beautiful car Don. It's a real gem!

Frazer,

You are correct. I do not have the notorius truck style rims. It is as Brian descibed, a "C" shape.

Brian,

Those are excellent instructions.

Thanks,

Dwight

[Dwight Romberger]

Mark,

Thanks for the encouragement. I will give it a try.

And, now I know what Brian meant by 'dribbling' the tire. I am not as smart as I look!

I think I will stick with the perfumed version. I need all the help in that department I can get!

Thanks again Mark.

Dwight

P.S. On a side note, I am going to use Metal Rescue to remove the rust on the felloe (sp?) and rim. I will document the process with pictures and share on a new thread when I am done.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history)

[Mark Shaw]

Dwight,

I have been meaning to try Metal Rescue on some of my projects too. I look forward to some photos of your results.

One more thing about mounting your tires onto the wheels... After mounting them, spin the wheel with a fixed reference point next to the rim to make sure they are mounted evenly around the wheel. Evenly torqued lug nuts will not always make the rim and tire run true. You may have to tweak them to run straight.

[Dwight Romberger]

Mark,

I have tried Metal rescue. It works just like in the videos. I am especially interested in this application because of the combination of wood and metal. The people at Metal Rescue are interrested too. They asked me to send them pics of the process.

Thanks for mentioning the "tweeking."

Dwight

[jbbuick22]

Dwight,

The larger rim sizes are easier than the 19" ones you are changing. A rim spreader will work , but be careful

not to bend the rim. Rim spreaders are biggest cause for bent rims.

JB

[Guest Ynysmon]

Just fitted five new Goodrich on my 1930 series 61. Once you slip the catch and the rim collapses inwards tyres easily removed with a couple of good tyre levers.

Fitting the new tyres - ignore the drawings in the handbook - with the rim collapsed ease the tyre over one rim, then insert the inner tube & flap, partially inflate to ensure tube fits neatly, let air out then ease tyre over second rim. A bit of liquid soap helps. They went on with minimal use of tyre levers. Now the difficult part - with no rim spreader I used two strong screwdrivers , a piece of wood and wooden wedges. Hold wheel upright with the catch at the bottom, use the two screwdrivers to ease the rim back until they line up, jam in piece of wood and use wedges to tighten, close the clip - inflate - job done. First wheel took 30 mins. by the time I got to the last - only 10mins. Hard work but a good way to sweat off a few pounds.

[Marty Roth]

Dwight,

As others have suggested, go real easy with the Rim Spreader. I've used mine many times successfully, but the very first time I used one, I created an EGG-SHAPED 21" Rim for my 1927 Chevy. Thankfully I had found and bought extras at Hershey in 1984.

You can do it, even without the tool, using 2 tire irons or rounded leaves from an old spring. I've done this while on a progressive tour.

Call me for any needed encouragement.

Marty

[Dwight Romberger]

Thanks Marty

[michaelod]

Not to steal Dwight's thread but my 1930 model 68 has wire wheels. Are these considered to be true split rims as they are missing the rim on one side of the wheel which is then filled in by a locking ring? Any special tips to mounting the tires on these?

Thanks,

[Marty Roth]

Michael, Yours are NOT considered a split rim.

Your lock ring must be carefully seated so as not to come loose from the rim, but.....

Dwight's SPLIT-RIM ....is very different. With his split-rim, it looks like a modern wheel's rim (just the rim, not the complete wheel) but there is a SPLIT or SLICE running side-to-side (imagine the letter "C", almost complete) with an inner tab connecting the sides of the split. When released, the separated pieces can overlap/underlap one-another, slightly reducing the diameter of the rim and allowing the tire to slip off. when the new or repaired tire/tube/flap is reinstalled, the segments are pushed back to "Full-Round", and are ready to hold the tire in place.

[michaelod]

Thanks for that clarification Marty. Is there a safety issue when installing the locking ring on wire wheels that is similar to that encountered on some split rims? Do they have a tendency to fly off the wheel when the tire is being inflated as well?

[Marty Roth]

SAFETY - FIRST !!!

Age has a way of building up corrosion, and of affecting the proper fit of the Lock Ring.

Please be certain that the ring is completely seated all of the way around - A rubber or wooden mallet helps. My Packard has lock rings. I recall a problem on a Savannah, GA tour with a 1922 Marmon whose lock ring simply would not "seat" properly, despite many seasoned tourists offering advice.

Use an inflator which properly attaches to the valve stem, and stand away from the tire, or use a safety cage if possible.

These are generally OK if properly respected, but can certainly be dangerous.

I'd rather call you Michael, instead of "Lefty"

[michaelod]

SAFETY - FIRST !!!

I'd rather call you Michael, instead of "Lefty"

Actually since I am left-handed, I will answer to either...

Thanks Again,

[Terry Wiegand]

I have held back as long and hard as I can. I was there in person to witness Mr. Shaw changing those tires in Rochester, Minnesota in 2006. It was MY RIM SPREADER that I loaned him to use. I had broken my left arm in May. Things were progressing nicely on the rehab front for me. My youngest son-in-law helped me load the car in the trailer for the trip to the meet. A couple of guys helped unload once we got there and then load back up for the return trip home. Keep in mind I was in no way able to offer any help with this project, except to lend the use of my tire tool. I have dismounted and re-mounted 17 new tires on my three old Buicks and I can honestly say that the only slight trouble that I had was with the very first tire to mount. After that it was a piece of cake. I am here to tell you guys that you needed to be there to see this. If I had taken a video of that, it would have gone viral. I and a couple of other guys watching laughed so hard that I told my wife later I almost soiled myself. I told Mark's wife that she was going to have to take him down to the car wash to clean him up after this was done. I don't think she saw the humor in that. I'm willing to bet that he can do it a lot quicker these days. Playing with old cars really has its bright moments. OH, was that one of them! Terry Wiegand Doo Dah America

[Dandy Dave]

Here's a link to the most dangerous split rim type... used on trucks in the 40's, 50's and 60's and are no longer made or sold new. A lot of guys got hurt mounting these. I personally know of two. One broke both arms when the tire exploded. The other fellow went blind and had his face disfiggured along with other injurys.

Split-rim wheels vs Budd wheels - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

I've mounted my share of tires on all sorts of things from wheel barrels, to tractor tires. Always Respect anything with air pressure. Another friend, the owner of a local truck garage was killed here also a number of years ago when a side wall exploded and a piece hit him square in the chest. He had a tire cage and was not using it. Large truck tires carry 90 to 110 lbs per square inch. Dandy Dave!

Edited May 20, 2013 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)