59 BUICK WAGON VERSUS 59 PONTIAC WAGON

[Guest rluke]

Hi. I am looking for some constructive opinions on which of these wagons would be considered better than the other. I am interested to hear the reasons behind those opinions. I have a buick wagon already but I have looked at a Pontiac wagon and have thought that it might be a bit easier for me to fix up. I like the look of both so what do you think? Rob

[avgwarhawk]

The question may not be which is easier to fix up but which one is more desirable to you to repair. Being the easy one my not be the most desirable car you would like to put your time and money into. What is your definition of easier? Parts availability? The condition of each car? If I had two 59 and both in same condition my choice would be the Buick. It is the most desirable and pleasing to my eye.

[PONTIAC1953]

the 1959 buick is a good looking car, but the 1959 pontiac being the first time that pontiac won motor trend's car of the year award, first year for the wide track, first year for the awesome pontiac 389 engine, from a two barrel all the way to a tripower carburetion. if i was looking for a 1959 pontiac stationwagon, i would want the bonneville version. there were far more pontiacs sold that year than buicks, i believe that pontiac placed third in sales in 1959, right behind ford and chevy, so there will be far more parts cars to be found, stationwagons and other models. just putting in my two indian red cents worth. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

[rocketraider]

Both are infinitely cool cars to own and either would be a knockout at any show or cruise night. Neither is going to be especially easy to find parts.

Between these two my vote goes to the Pontiac because of HydraMatic.

[Rusty_OToole]

The 2 are so similar that from a functional standpoint they are interchangeable. The Pontiac would get the nod from me because it is easier to get parts for and easier to work on. However, we are talking about 50 year old used cars here. So the overall condition and miles have a bearing, and would tip the scale to Buick if it was the better unit and needed less work.

If everything else was equal, I prefer the looks of the Buick. But not enough to over ride all other considerations.

So, I guess that is one more vote for the Pontiac although in a race this close, the Buick could pull ahead on condition.

As for the Hydramatic vs Dynaflow, the Dynaflow is a dog of a transmision, inefficient and hard to work on because of the torque tube drive. But the Pontiac uses the new (at the time) Roto Hydramatic or Slim Jim transmission which is an even bigger dog, and harder to work on. So let's call that one a wash.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

Nope. Pontiac was still using the four-speed HydraMatic in 59 and continued using it in their long wheelbase cars (Bonneville/ Star Chief) thru 1964. RHM didn't show up until 1961 and was used only in Catalina/GP.

[Dosmo]

Just from a subjective viewpoint, I might prefer the looks of the Pontiac over the Buick by a slight margin. The torque tube drive on the Buick would tilt the odds a little further toward the Pontiac.

But, the dashboard/instrument panel of the Buick is a little cooler than the Poncho.

[Guest my3buicks]

Tough one, love the looks of both, on the outside I lean toward the Buick but the Bonneville's interior is fantastic. Can we maybe go with a Buick with the Pontiac interior? Figure also the Buick was GM's top of the line wagon offering also. Either could sit in my garage!

[Dosmo]

over under shot of 59 Pontiac instument cluster and 59 Buick cluster - couldn't find one with the Pontiac cluster lit up.

[Marty Roth]

My wife has always been the smart one.

Many, many years now, I've shared with her when I looked for a particular type of car to buy, and usually come up with 2 or 3 choices to compare. Then I would dwell on the comparitive benefits and deficiencies of the alternatives - which one was better here - which was better there. It was like making a list of the pros and cons of the 2 or 3 choices. Then I would make a choice - not always the right one, and sometimes I would wait too long, and no longer have my options.

I shoulda' listened to her every time she said "GET THEM BOTH - SEE IF BOTH OR EITHER DOES WHAT WE WANT - THEN LATER IF WE WANT TO, WE CAN SELL ONE OR THE OTHER OR BOTH".

A very smart girl married me 43-1/2 years ago. I wish more folks in this hobby were as fortunate and had such a supportive mate.

The Buick would probably be my first choice, probably for the audacious fins, the smoothness of the Dynaflow, and a bit more overall "class".

The Pontiac would certainly be a great alternative for ther fresh styling, wide-track, 389 ci engine - even though the timing chain and its cover would be the 1st thing to change (ask how I know).

On the other hand, even though I lean toward GM products, A big Chrysler Town & Country Wagon of the era could certainly earn garage space at the Roth Bayou Getaway.

[Guest rluke]

The cars are in similar condition. I don't know a lot about the Pontiac drive train so the comparison between the motors and gearboxes is interesting. It sounds like the mechanicals on the Pontiac may be a bit more user friendly. I haven't heard a lot of great things about the dynaflow on the buick. I haven't driven any of these cars so I cant compare the driving performance of either. I would love to have both but cant really afford to do them both up. I think the front of the buick certainly looks better, Rob

[John_Maine]

I see a lot more '59 Buicks than '59 Pontiacs, so I would go with the Pontiac. I think it looks better and mechanically it is more conventional.

[Dave@Moon]

As for the Hydramatic vs Dynaflow, the Dynaflow is a dog of a transmision, inefficient and hard to work on because of the torque tube drive. But the Pontiac uses the new (at the time) Roto Hydramatic or Slim Jim transmission which is an even bigger dog, and harder to work on. So let's call that one a wash.

By 1959 Buick had dropped the Dynaflow name from the transmission, but it was still essentially the same tranny. The Twin Turbine version (introduced 1955) did much to improve the efficientcy over older versions, and the one in my 1960 Buick was more than crisp enough in normal driving (Buick's massive torque specs were to thank for that). 1959 cars could still have the optional (rare and complex) Triple Turbine version, which I'm told was not much of an improvement. It was dropped for 1960 after only 2 years.

BTW, 1959 Pontiacs have some of the most beautiful interiors of the era, IMHO.:cool:

[Guest Skyking]

I think I would have to go along with the Buick only because '59 was such a drastic year. There was a nice one at Hersey a couple of years ago. And Buick's interior wasn't that shabby either with their tri-color patterns.

[Guest my3buicks]

The ultimate 59 Pontiac wagon for your viewing

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I think you owe it to yourself to check '59 Olds wagons! (Sorry, just teasing).

[rocketraider]

My earlier reference to HydraMatic along with my sig line could have been interpreted as you need to look at a Fiesta!

Keith, is that Bonneville Safari "Sunfire Red"? or were they using that name for the color in 59?

Somebody throw up a Chevy Nomad wagon pic while we're into it!

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Well, it's not a Nomad. Instead it's Parkwood! You could get with it a forever popular six cylinder engine, a peppy little 283 V8, or a powerful 348 V8. Transmission choices? A three speed on the column (a very few with overdrive), a two speed automatic (Powerglide) or Turboglide (quite similar to a Buick Dynaflow):

To complete the GM line up for 1959, there were a very few expensive Cadillac station wagons that were custom bodied by a firm whose name I can't remember. You'll have to settle for a picture of a '60, because I can't come up with a '59:

[Guest my3buicks]

My earlier reference to HydraMatic along with my sig line could have been interpreted as you need to look at a Fiesta!

Keith, is that Bonneville Safari "Sunfire Red"? or were they using that name for the color in 59?

Somebody throw up a Chevy Nomad wagon pic while we're into it!

Sunset Glow for Pontiac

[rocketraider]

Seeing that Caddy-wagon makes ya believe they should have used the flat-top hardtop sedan as the base for ALL the 59-60 wagons.

Did a little checking and found that the 1959 Sunset Glow color is a little different from the 64 Sunfire Red. Olds called it Russet and their 1957 Sunset Glow was a medium hue non-metallic pink.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Seeing that Caddy-wagon makes ya believe they should have used the flat-top hardtop sedan as the base for ALL the 59-60 wagons.

You know, I think you're right. Geez, though, isn't it loooong. Looks like you could land planes on it!

Edited January 7, 2013 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

The way they did the woodgrain on the side, reminds me of the Mercury wagons of that time. That IS one looooonnngggggg roofline!

Thanks for that Caddillac picture!

NTX5467

[Centurion]

For those who consider Dynaflows a "dog", I wonder whether they've ever driven a post-1955 example. I have found them to be perfectly responsive and driveable in today's traffic.

I've driven fine unrestored 1959 Pontiacs and 1959 Buicks in equal condition. I'm afraid my preferences are obvious from my signature, but I've organized a number of 1959 General Motors tours, and I'll say simply that my '59 Pontiac friends are amazed when they ride in the "silky" Buicks. And I'm a guy who has loved '59 Pontiacs since they were first introduced.

There's no doubt that the Pontiac parts are easier to find, especially that long rear quarter glass, which was shared with Chevrolet. Olds and Buick wagon bodies in 1959 were built by the Ionia Body Manufacturing division of Mitchell-Bentley Corp., and the rear side glass is unique to the Olds and Buick wagons -- and very hard to find.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Centurion (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

While on the subject of Dynaflows, I recall far off distant memories of old Buicks with their unique automatic transmissions being very popular cars with ice racers in the '50s and '60s. I'm talking here about rusty old, junkers being raced around on an oval track on a frozen lake in the days before studded tires and front wheel drive. It was probably about the Dynaflows (sometimes called "slush-boxes" back then) not having the hard shift points of others. Weight and torque were probably big factors, too, I imagine.

[aussiecowboy]

Whichever one gets your heart beating fastest! For me it would be the Pontiac all the way, just a prettier car. Of course, I could be a little biased.

[Guest rluke]

There's no doubt that the Pontiac parts are easier to find, especially that long rear quarter glass, which was shared with Chevrolet. Olds and Buick wagon bodies in 1959 were built by the Ionia Body Manufacturing division of Mitchell-Bentley Corp., and the rear side glass is unique to the Olds and Buick wagons -- and very hard to find.

The side glass is buick only and I need one. If I cant get that then my buick is kind of useless.

[The Continental]

Yeah, probably useless. I'll haul it away for free.

Anyway this is a tough one cause both are great choices. I'd probably stick with the Buick unless there's a bunch of missing parts and you want to start with something more complete.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

If you need the side glass, call these two places here in Minnesota. They're two of the Nations largest junk yards, and in both cases, fine, honest and professional people with which to do business. They both ship all over the world. I've found over and over again that their prices are more realistic than private parties that think they are holding gold.

Welcome to French Lake Auto Parts - French Lake, MN

Windy Hill Auto Parts | Home

There's also a large yard in South Dakota whom I never dealt with, but I've good things about:

Moores Auto Salvage: Quality parts for antique and classic cars and trucks from the 1920s to 1980s.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[Guest]

For me the choice would be obvious. Pontiac is a obvious winner. First Wide-Track, first split grille styling, first year of the 389 engine, and the last Pontiac with reverse flow cooling, The best Automatic of any car in 59 along with Olds and Cadillac which use the same trans with four speeds and only 25% of the engines power going through the fluid coupling in fourth - a Mobil economy run winner because of it. First car to average over 150mph at Daytona, and even though not winning that year due to a A/C fuel pump broken arm, was Ten mph faster than any other make, a 168 mph on back stretch . First pure stock car to break into the 13 second bracket and go over 100mph drag racing. A virtually indestructible 9.3 inch rear end ( shared with Olds) that could handle just about any horsepower thrown at it ( dragsters and funny cars used them 1,000 plus horsepower ) Motor Trends Car of the year. A move to 4th place in car sales behind Plymouth. Pontiac wouldn't see #3 in sales until Tempest was added in 1961.

To Glenn; Sunset Glow (1959) differs from Sunfire Red (1964) in that they both use a metallic red tint and silver metallic, but Sunset Glow has gold Metallic added. My 59 would change colors during the day and was quite spectacular at sunset when the gold would really come out especially those pink and gold sunsets.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

I've wondered what's the fuss about Pontiac's Wide Track in 1959. All the GM cars that year look a block wide and 2 blocks long. This thread finally made me look it up.

Buick Invicta, on which the Estate Wagon is based, has a front tread of 62", rear 61". The Pontiac Catalina, including the wagon, has a front tread ("track", in Pontiac terms) of 63.7" and rear of 64". That's a 1.7" and 3" difference, which is significant.

Which wagon would be my choice? I'd give the nod to Buick, especially a single-tone red one like Rob's. This division's knockout styling for '59 isn't well expressed in the wagon but it hangs together better than the Pontiac, I think. The top-line interior is terrific in both. Late '50s Buicks are smooth around town and great highway cars. A Dynaflow is no harder to maintain and repair than a Hydramatic and its drive delivery is undeniably seamless. The torque tube drive, with its well-protected universal joint, is more reliable than an open driveshaft and it's dead easy to take apart and repair seals.

ROB, I guess I've hung around the Buick forums long enough not to be afraid of parts availability. A small mercy about the side glass that your wagon is missing is that either a parts car has it or it doesn't. There's no quibbling about condition. Another specialized junk yard you should try is Freman's Auto Auctions (Neil Freman) in Whitehall, Montana, 406 287 5436.

[Guest]

I've wondered what's the fuss about Pontiac's Wide Track in 1959. All the GM cars that year look a block wide and 2 blocks long. This thread finally made me look it up.

Rob, The original fuss happened when Bunkie Knudsen ( Pontiac General Manager ) previewed the cars for the first time in pre-production. Knudsen said the car looked like a football player wearing ballet slippers. If you compare a 59 Pontiac with any of it's other divisions sisters the weird look is quite obvious. Knudsen had engineering move the wheels out to fill the wheel house properly. Starting out as a styling fix, the handling advantages due to much better roll stability than other contemporary cars of the day was the main reason Pontiac got the nod for Motor Trend's car of the year.

FYI in 1960 the ft track was increased to meet the rear at 64 inches, and there was a lawsuit filed by some car wash owners association against Pontiac because the Pontiac was unable to fit the guides in the car washes.

[Guest rluke]

Thanks for the information you guys are giving. I do want to keep the buick but things arent running very smoothly with getting the car organised to ship here to Australia. The quarter glass is a problem but it has also cost me a lot of money getting this car to where it is. The reason I asked this question is I was thinking about selling the buick to recoup some costs and maybe buying the pontiac just so I can at least get a wagon over here. They both require a similar amount of work but it depends on what I could get for the buick. I can get the pontiac for $2500.It is going to come down to costs as it is looking like I will lose a bit of money as it stands now. I guess it comes down to personal preference but it sounds like either car would do the job for me.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

rluke,

I'm assuming that the yards that I mentioned earlier didn't have the window. I'll give you a few more places to try:

Auto Wrecking,Classic Car Parts,Antique Auto Parts,Car Parts,Truck Parts,Turners Auto Wrecking

Classic and Antique Car Junk Yards

Classic Auto ( Automotive ) Parts, Car Wrecking: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, More

Classic Car Auto Parts For Sale Old Gold Cars Antique Auto Parts Salvage Yard

CTC Auto Ranch Specials

Home » DVAP

Kanna's Antique Auto Salvage

Richard's Classic Cars

Roblins Garage - Classic Auto Salvage

Sonny's Salvage - Home

Vintage Auto Salvage Possum Grape, AR

CTC Auto Ranch

Happy hunting!

[Guest my3buicks]

Did you post in the wanted section on the Buick part of the forum that you are looking for the window? Are you a BCA member, of you are have you put an add in the Bugle looking for the window? Did you post on the V8 Buick forum? People find a lot rarer items for their cars than the rear window you are looking for, keep looking and use and exhaust all avenues.

[Guest rluke]

I have posted in the buick section and the 59 forum and several others. Thanks for that extra list, I have already tried a few of those but I just left enquiries with the others. Fingers crossed. I haven't become a BCA member as yet, if everything works out with this car and I know it is on its way I will join.(if Im not completely broke by then).

[John_Maine]

Re: Helfens post - All anyone has to do is look at the Canadian Pontiacs built on the Chevrolet chassis from '59-'64 and you'll see what Bunkie was talking about.

[Guest]

Re: Helfens post - All anyone has to do is look at the Canadian Pontiacs built on the Chevrolet chassis from '59-'64 and you'll see what Bunkie was talking about.

Or compare any 59 Buick, Olds, Chevy, to a Pontiac. Example;

http://www.velocityjournal.com/images/full/2001/s2001081802/pn1959catalina5701.jpg

http://1959cadillac.org/1959-Cadillac-Eldorado.jpg

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/1959-1960-buick-electra-and-invicta-2-doors-1.jpg

http://image.superchevy.com/f/features/impala/sucp_1102_scott_chalk_1959_chevrolet_impala_convertible/29825546+w620/sucp_1102_01_o+scott_chalk_1959_chevrolet_impala_convertible+front_view.jpg

http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/plugins/PostviaEmail/images/1959_Oldmobile_Dynamic_88_Coupe_For_Sale_Glenwood_Gathering_Front_resize.jpg

Aesthetically it make a big difference, from a engineering standpoint it makes a big difference.

http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2012/05/1959PontiacBonnevilleSafari_01_700.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8485/8177789499_0da2d50fab_z.jpg

Edited January 16, 2013 by helfen (see edit history)

[John348]

You should join the BCA right away! You never know what will turn up. I had helped my best friend finish his 60 Invicta Estate Wagon that was featured in the BCA magazine about two years ago, the car got some sort of "Best of Award" at the Buick Convention in Boston. It was a rare car with the Bucket Seats and the console. He was loosing his vision as the car was completing and he sold it, the new owner was the one the feature was done on. There was a large amount of spare "wagon" parts that were sold later on to the new owner, (including the side glass). After the car was sold I was storing these parts as we were advertising them for about a year in the BCA magazine, VERY LITTLE INTEREST!!!!!! The best money in a restoration you can spend is club dues with classifieds. You can always run a wanted ad and trust the person who answers it.

There was A LOT OF PARTS that went as bulk sale to the new owner, I am going to send you a PM with the email of the guy who bought the parts, I don't know if he will sell the glass but you never know.....

As far as the Buick Pontiac debate I think the Buick parts are cheaper from the front doors forward, When we were hitting Junk Yards in PA 15 years ago every Buick seemed like it was driven in and parked and nobody touched it since the day it came in. The ones that were towed in had the tranny laying on the front seat or in the trunk, that was telling me something about them right away! I did not like the torque tube set up AT ALL!!!! I also had a problem with a valve job that was done, with nonadjustable valves... I located a machienst who made adjustable push rods problem solved. I don't like the starting system on the Buick either. The Ionia Body had all kinds of sloppy seams and work, panels were off alingment. He did a 59 Nomad several years before, the Fisher Body was better by far. Oddly enough he was going to a Pontiac prior to the Buick, but the car had severe frame damage, his fear was locating die cast Pontiac parts and this was 18 years ago. I attached a photo of the Buick before we sold it for your enjoyment. I am a Chevy Guy

y

[PONTIAC1953]

I've wondered what's the fuss about Pontiac's Wide Track in 1959. All the GM cars that year look a block wide and 2 blocks long. This thread finally made me look it up.

Buick Invicta, on which the Estate Wagon is based, has a front tread of 62", rear 61". The Pontiac Catalina, including the wagon, has a front tread ("track", in Pontiac terms) of 63.7" and rear of 64". That's a 1.7" and 3" difference, which is significant.

Which wagon would be my choice? I'd give the nod to Buick, especially a single-tone red one like Rob's. This division's knockout styling for '59 isn't well expressed in the wagon but it hangs together better than the Pontiac, I think. The top-line interior is terrific in both. Late '50s Buicks are smooth around town and great highway cars. A Dynaflow is no harder to maintain and repair than a Hydramatic and its drive delivery is undeniably seamless. The torque tube drive, with its well-protected universal joint, is more reliable than an open driveshaft and it's dead easy to take apart and repair seals.

ROB, I guess I've hung around the Buick forums long enough not to be afraid of parts availability. A small mercy about the side glass that your wagon is missing is that either a parts car has it or it doesn't. There's no quibbling about condition. Another specialized junk yard you should try is Freman's Auto Auctions (Neil Freman) in Whitehall, Montana, 406 287 5436.

rob, if the closed torque tube driveline was really so much better than the open driveline, then why did buick and chevy give them up and switch to the open driveline ?, answer #1 is less time to remove transmission for repairs, and answer #2 easier to lube front and rear u joints, answer #3 is less weight means better performance and fuel economy, answer #4 is cost less money to build, which means a lower buying price for the car. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

[rocketraider]

Lord that Invicta Estate is handsome! From the rear view, I think the Buick wears the wagon body the best. Never realised the Ionia bodies had those issues.

Neighbor down behind me has a 60 LeSabre wagon that is going to seed from sitting. I like it, but he wants to trade for me blue Starfire and I've realised that even though that car is also going to seed, I may need it as a parts source for the green one someday. So I keep me Starfire.