(What is) the Longest Pre War Production Wheelbase/

[Guest BJM]

I was just wondering what the longest production car/make wheelbase vehicle was prior to 1942 not including Limousines or coachwork vehicles and with a reasonable production total - say 1,000 made or such ?

[Bill Harmatuk]

Good question.

Bill H

[Matt Harwood]

My '29 Cadillac has a 140 inch wheelbase, and it's just a regular 5-passenger sedan, not a limousine. There aren't many that are bigger, although I believe the V16s were up to 154 inches, but I don't know if they built 1000 of them. There were V12 Packards that were longer, too, and those might qualify as production cars.

[sambarn]

Marmon 16 is 145" for the standard wheelbase although only 392 were made. I believe the actual record (since 1000 is an random number) for production prewar auto stands with the Bugatti Royale at 169.3 inches. There were only 7 made.

[trimacar]

Actually Mr. B., there were only 6 Royales made. There is a book of fiction titled "The Seventh Royale", but the originals were only six. The Schlumpf brothers found some parts and pieces, including a locomotive Bugatti engine (which is identical to the Royale engines), and built at least one "replica".

I'd say that's the longest for sure, for cars that were intended for production, and not special construction (hearses, limos, etc.)

[1937hd45]

I would think they produced 1,000 1928 Packard 443's on the 143 inch wheelbase chassis.

[Earl B.]

Packard also had a 145 in 1929, 1930, 1931and 147 inch wheelbase in 1932. No idea how many or any were made though. B

[Tom Martinez]

All the 1932-1934 KB's were on this same long chassis, there were at least a few thousand total for those years. These are of two projects I'm simultaneously working on, one is a Limo the other a Lebaron Roadster. The long WB does wonders for the styling

Edited July 15, 2012 by Tom Martinez
add pic (see edit history)

[Steve Braverman]

1933 Chrysler Imperial CL had a 146" wheelbase. They built about 1600.

[Tom Martinez]

1933 Chrysler Imperial CL had a 146" wheelbase. They built about 1600.

The 146" Chryslers were probably done for one-upsmanship over Packard, Lincoln and the Cadillac V16, which I believe was also on a 145" WB...mine's longer than than yours!

Now that I've owned the two Lincolns for a few years anything much shorter looks stubby to me!

--Tom in So. Cal.....still sorting and tuning

[Dave@Moon]

The 1911 Oldsmobile Limited had a wheelbase of 138 inches. I think that may be the longest pre- WW1 wheelbase.

[nzcarnerd]

Pre WW1 the three Ps - Packard, Peerless and pierce-Arrow all did chassis of 140" or more - up to 147 1/2" for the Pierce 66. The Austin 60 of 1910-11 was 140" - I believe there is at least one survivor. All of these were built in numbers of less than 1000 though. In 1914 Oldsmobile (model 54), Stearns-Knight and Mitchell were among those who had chassis of more than 138". The various Springfield Rolls-Royce models were all on 140"plus wheelbases and there were more than 1000 of those.

Edited July 15, 2012 by nzcarnerd (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

Only the 1934-7 V16 Cadillac (452-D and 36-90) was on a 154" wheelbase and the were only about 200 or so of them but there were quite a few more of the earlier V16s - several thousand - and they were all on wheelbases of between 143" and 149".

[DavidAU]

The longest pre war Rolls-Royces were the Phantom 2's from 1929 to 1935 with a 150 inch wheelbase and although they were all custom bodied not all were limo's.

There was all types of bodies from sports sedans to drop head coupes.

They made a total of 1681 Phantom 2's and out of that there were 281 with the Continental chassis which has a 6" shorter wheel base, different springs and shocks, lower body etc all designed for high speed touring.

[Guest prs519]

To do true justice to proportion, I think that overall length and tire size might be other numbers as relevant as the wheelbase. One could easily have a longerwheelbase, yet have a car a couple feet shorter, overall. Just sayin -- as they say.

[edinmass]

Pierce used a 147 inch chassis from 1931 to 1935. They built roadsters and coupe's on them! Large and impressive cars. Ed

[West Peterson]

Duesenberg's lwb chassis was 154".

The longest prewar production car chassis was Packard's 148-inch wheelbase Super Eight chassis introduced in 1939, which ran through 1948.

[X-Frame]

Don't forget the Bugatti Royale with its 169.3" wheelbase.

[Restorer32]

For comparison a new 8 ft bed pickup rides on about a 135" wheelbase.

[West Peterson]

Don't forget the Bugatti Royale with its 169.3" wheelbase.

The OP is looking for production cars.

[Guest BJM]

Thank you for all the replies. The information provided would have taken me a long time to accumulate. It's just a curiosity. It seems in the post war, wheelbase shortened considerably. Except for some Cadillacs and Buicks, among domestics, wheelbases in the 50's were in the 120-124 range for the "larger" cars so I was curious how this related to pre war times.

I have a 1936 Buick Roadmaster 4 door model 81 at 131" wheelbase and thought that was a large wheelbase for 1936 but it's not. Many cars noted above seem to be in the 145" wheelbase range.

As to the comment regarding overall length v wheelbase, I think wheelbase is related to interior spaciousness and aura or prestige. Overall length relates to me more as styling and creating style in the body, as we see in the 50's (for better or for worse).

Thanks again for increasing my knowledge of wheelbase without breaking out every book imaginable!

[X-Frame]

The OP is looking for production cars.

If you consider 7 a production

The Maybach 62 has a 150.67" wheelbase. The Dusenberg J had a long wheelbase model 153.54" and some say the longest "production" in America was the 1974-76 Cadillac Fleetwood. Not sure if they are considering the factory built limousines 151.5" or the standard Brougham 133.0"

Plenty of factory built limousines if you want to consider them "production"? Maybach and Fleetwood above are of course post 1942.

I will scan over my NADA and Bluebooks covering 1920s-1940s cars tonight unless someone has the answer? Good question for my chassis history.

Eric

Edited July 25, 2012 by X-Frame (see edit history)

[X-Frame]

West, there were only 481 Dusenberg J series made and not sure out of them how many were long wheelbase models? Production?

You are saying the Packard was the longest pre-war production - will double check.

Fun interesting questions... always a challange.

[West Peterson]

I was just mentioning Duesenberg's wheelbase. Wasn't saying it was the answer to the question (although the chassis were basically "production," just not on the scale that BJM was asking).

The answer to the question is the 148-inch wheelbase by Packard built in 1939-42. Up until recent time, as you have pointed out, it was the longest wheelbase chassis offered on a relatively high-production basis.

[Guest BJM]

I did pull 1000 out of a hat so to speak but I did want to seperate the Full Classic coachbuilts from the normal cars because it can't be easy to assembly line a LWB production vehicle for manufacturing reasons and for market share. And then one takes into consideration the Great Depression for 10-12 years of this period.

[X-Frame]

I did pull 1000 out of a hat so to speak but I did want to seperate the Full Classic coachbuilts from the normal cars because it can't be easy to assembly line a LWB production vehicle for manufacturing reasons and for market share. And then one takes into consideration the Great Depression for 10-12 years of this period.

Then we are going to have to search further because West's mention of Packard Super Eight with a 148" wheelbase was also a limousine model and low numbers each year... unless you want to tally up the overall total between a year bracket?

[West Peterson]

I did pull 1000 out of a hat so to speak but I did want to seperate the Full Classic coachbuilts from the normal cars because it can't be easy to assembly line a LWB production vehicle for manufacturing reasons and for market share. And then one takes into consideration the Great Depression for 10-12 years of this period.

Then we are going to have to search further because West's mention of Packard Super Eight with a 148" wheelbase was also a limousine model and low numbers each year... unless you want to tally up the overall total between a year bracket?

I took the low numbers into consideration with my answer, but since he was looking for production assembly line vehicles, I figured it qualified. They built Touring Sedans and Limousines on that wheelbase, and they came down the same assembly line as the regular Super Eights, of which almost 2,000 were built in 1940 alone.

[X-Frame]

Packard didn't break down the numbers but grouped them and for 1940 there were 5,662 various "Super Eight" models in the 160 series which included 127" and 138" wheelbase models as well as the 148". There were 1,900 in the 180 series which also included the three wheelbase variations as well so no way of figuring out how many 148" were built even if on the same assembly line? Can't say for sure if it qualifies as a full scale production model of over 1,000 units produced but was a "production" car just the same. But I can't quite tell in post #25 if he does or doesn't want limos and/or touring cars?

Edited July 26, 2012 by X-Frame (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

But I can't quite tell in post #25 if he does or doesn't want limos and/or touring cars?

Can't include Limousines or 7 passenger cars because by definition they would or should be LWB vehicles.

[X-Frame]

Can't include Limousines or 7 passenger cars because by definition they would or should be LWB vehicles.

Thanks... back to the drawing board. Will get an answer for you this evening unless someone else chimes in first.

[X-Frame]

BTW... is there a reason for your initial question? Just curious. I know I ask some very specific and what some see as odd questions myself doing research for the book.

[Guest BJM]

There is not a reason for my initial inquiry. I just have a fertile mind and I am always thinking. This forum is a great place to get these questions answered and it usually leads to a greater knowledge base. As mentioned, my 1936 Buick Roadmaster is 131" wheelbase, which I considered pretty long. So to help me put that into perspective I asked the question on the forum. To answer, it is somewhere in the middle (131") and those larger ones tend to be more expensive. Also, what was the purpose of the LWB cars? Were they sold as prestige or did people really want the room? Why then did wheelbases go smaller in the post war perod? These were some of my questions.

[X-Frame]

I can answer some of this when I have more time this evening but LWB cars were still a throwback from the 1930s for Mr. Moneybags sitting in the back seat chomping on his cigar. You will notice that even though tooling of cars remained almost identical from prewar 1942 to postwar 1946, many models were dropped for the 1946 year which include most of those LWB cars especially custom body ones. Had somewhat to do with economy of the time and making affordable family cars for the troops returning home.

I know where you are coming from. I have some off the wall questions that just need answered in my mind which often link or leads to other questions related to my book research. Problem is that some are so obscure and the various forum folders they fall in are rarely visited so it can take forever here to get an answer, if ever.

[X-Frame]

Also looking at the 1936 Buick (your year 168,596 cars total produced), there was a Limited series that ran on a 138" wheelbase (4,457 units + 352 bare chassis).

In 1933 the 90-Series included a 2-door coupe version on this wheelbase as well as the normal 5-7 passenger models. The Limited was dropped for the postwar 1946 lineup where in prewar 1942 was only the limousine line by then.

There was a 1940 version that rode on a 140" wheelbase.

The Buick 90-Series was a regular mass produced car but as the name refers, was in limited quantities of 3,000-5,000 units range with only around 500 being limousines. But then again in 1933, Buick business was off and only produced 46,924 cars including 557 of those 2-door coupes (4,077 Series 90 + 192 bare chassis).

Will dig when I get home to see who has the longest mass produced family car wheelbase.

[pughs]

Reo produced a small number of 152 inch wheelbase chassis to be used for Reo Royale custom bodies (1931-1933).

[X-Frame]

pughs... that falls into the low volume custom cars he doesn't want to include. Cadillac made a bunch of 154" wheelbase Fleetwoods in the 1930s but overall totals each year were usually well under 50 cars.

Cadillac also made a Series 75 which was the early Fleetwood also made in greater numbers (thousands) on a 141" wheelbase.

Packard also made a 1104 Series of which is linked to the Super Eights and had a 142" wheelbase and it was a mass produced car.

Outside of that you are looking at GM's large cars (Cadillac and Buick) with 138" wheelbases.

So it looks like the Packard 1104 Series is your answer followed by the Cadillac Series 75.

Eric

[West Peterson]

I'd have argue that Packard's 145.5-inch wheelbase of 1929 and 1930 falls under the OP's conditions: 2,061 in 1929 and 1,789 produced in 1930. The same years, they built 9,801 (1929) and 6,200 (1930) of the 140.5-inch wheelbase chassis.

[X-Frame]

West is correct in some aspects here. I didn't go that far back but these are the Deluxe Series on the 145.5" wheelbase. Problem is that there were 9 different models under the 2,061 total. So, is he looking for a "single" car over 1,000 units or would this composite series work?

I do have the breakout for Cadillac at home and will check those figures this evening to see how many of their longer wheelbase cars they made 1929-1930 to compare.

Edited July 30, 2012 by X-Frame (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

X

I'm offended by your last post. I don't quite understand your argument and questioning of my suggestion??? You said the 1104 series is the answer. I feel the 645/745 Series is the answer. Yet, for some reason you feel the need to say I'm only correct in some aspects: "problem is that there were 9 different models under ... the total [of 645s of 1929]." The exact same number of models listed for the 1104 Series. What gives?

Edited July 30, 2012 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Pierce used a 147 inch chassis from 1931 to 1935. They built roadsters and coupe's on them! Large and impressive cars. Ed

My info shows that only the 1931-32 models had bodies other than 7-pass. sedans and limousines, and i don't think the numbers were all that many.