1938 Buick: Regular or QQ Plates in New Jersey

[Guest LeAnne323]

Hi everyone.

We have a 1938 Buick Special 4-door sedan. A long time ago previous owner changed it to have twin sidemounts. Everything else is pretty much stock: lights, no turn signals, no oil filter, no seat belts.

It starts and runs. A little free play in the steering. The silver plating on the headlight reflectors is a little worn, as are the gearbox synchros. It could use new springs, which we bought, and my husband promises he will put in.

We haven't used it much in the last 10 years. Before that it was registered and inspected as a regular car. The inspectors enjoyed inspecting it and we thought it was cute to have an inspection sticker. A year ago we got it all running and renewed the registration. We never did get to inspection.

No we are torn. We could get regular plates and have it inspected, which is really nothing anymore; they only do emissions which obviously this car doesn't need. The registration is 3x as expensive as the historic car registration, and the new inspection stickers are huge, blocking that little windshield. Also, one of the wiper blades broke and we haven't been able to get a blade/arm combo that works together.

However, the QQ plates are only supposed to be used for going to exhibitions and educational purposes. We don't know if that is an issue, but we like to be within the law. Also, we have NJ History theme plates on the car, which are kinda cool.

So, what do you recommend: QQ plates or renew the regular registration?

Thanks,

LeAnne

[olympic]

I vote for the historic tags

[jscheib]

LeAnne,

I hate to sound like a "smart alleck", but it seems like you would consider regular plates because you want to drive it quite a bit beyond what Historic Plates "allow". In that case, I would surely see to it that proper windshield wipers were operating, regardless of what plate/registration was used. Unless you are driving it every day, I think most states would accept Historic Plates.

You may also want to check out the BCA forum below and consider joining the BCA and the local NJ Chapter.

John

[Guest LeAnne323]

We are doing our best with the wipers; 70 years of owner repairs doesn't make it easy.

Even at their best the headlights are marginal. The glass isn't safety glass. Drivers used to high mounted center brake lights don't even see those little 6v bulbs under the thick plastic lenses. Then there is the turn signal issue. When I took my driving test they were required. Now about as many people know them or look for them as 8th graders who know who was president when the car was built.

So we like to keep the driving local and rather moderate. Guests always enjoy a ride.

We are just worried that if there is an incident, or a police officer notices no turn signals or can't see the brakelights (which are pretty hard to see in daylight) and pulls you over, having QQ plates would be a problem.

[MCHinson]

If you check out the Buick Buy/Sell Forum, I think you will find a guy parting out a 1938 Buick Special who may have what you need to get your wipers working.

Check this link:

http://forums.aaca.org/f117/1938-4-dr-special-sale-283576.html

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I live in NJ and I have considered regular plates just to see if it could be done but it is near to completely impractical.I think the biggest issue is the difficulty in getting satisfactory regular insurance. Although the crisis of a few years ago is mostly over(Companies were abandoning the state in droves and people were scrambling to find replacement coverage at walloping increases) it's still one of the most expensive states on average,insurancewise. Take the one-time registration and the $100 +/- yearly premium and restrict your driving to fair weather,daytime, liesure, less busy road driving. the restrictions on QQ driving are fairly lenient but if you get stopped outside of the limits put on you just say you're taking the car to your mechanic. Have a good time and wave if you see me in my model A pickup.

[Guest Tishabet]

LeAnne,

Bob's Automobilia sells the wiper arm/wiper blade assembly fairly cheap... I installed them on my 38 Buick and have even used them in light rain!

What state are you in? I believe the regulations for using antique or "year of manufacture" plates differ from state to state. For me it was a no brainer to use the YOM plates... I don't use the car for errands or anything like that, and the only "questionable" use for me is pleasure drives but the rules say I can take drives check out mechanical condition etc and I have never heard of anyone getting into trouble for doing this. Finally, the cost of regular insurance for the car would be over $100 a month whereas my YOM plate insurance comes to $100 per YEAR for the same level of coverage!

[ply33]

What state are you in? I believe the regulations for using antique or "year of manufacture" plates differ from state to state. For me it was a no brainer to use the YOM plates... I don't use the car for errands or anything like that, and the only "questionable" use for me is pleasure drives but the rules say I can take drives check out mechanical condition etc and I have never heard of anyone getting into trouble for doing this. Finally, the cost of regular insurance for the car would be over $100 a month whereas my YOM plate insurance comes to $100 per YEAR for the same level of coverage!

State in question is New Jersey, whose laws I know nothing about.

However in the few states I've lived in I don't recall a requirement by the state that your insurance has to have the same restrictions as the licensing. Generally it does make sense to make them the same, but I can imagine circumstances where you might want to have them different. For example, in California the YOM plates are basically just plain old vanity plates. You pay the full regular yearly registration fee for them. Because of that the state places no restrictions on use. However you might want to have collector car insurance on the vehicle as it is cheaper than the alternative and generally gives you better coverage. In this case your driving restrictions are set only by your agreement with the insurance company.

[oldcarfudd]

I believe ply33 is right. Hagerty basically wants to be sure your antique isn't a daily driver, and insists that you have some regularly-registered and insured car as well as your collector car. But if you put regular plates on your antique so you can drive it to the pharmacy to pick up a prescription and not get hassled by the cops, I believe Hagerty will insure you at the antique rate.

I live in New Jersey and have 5 brass cars with QQ plates. I don't drive them on superhighways or at night, or in bad weather unless I happen to get caught. But I do go for a ride frequently. I always wave at cops, and they almost always wave back. I've never been hassled, except once when I had my son-in-law with me and my 2-year-old granddaughter on his lap in a one-lung Cadillac. The cop got all excited about kiddie seats, but he chewed out my son-in-law, not me. The law's various cross-references are a bit vague as to whether I need kiddie seats in an otherwise-legal car that has no provision for them, but I haven't carried any lap passengers since.

That said, I've heard of people with newer cars being ticketed with QQ plates, notably a guy with an MG. My take is that you're more at risk from cops with a car that could be used as a daily driver (like an MG) than with one that clearly couldn't, like my old crocks. Any cop who sees me knows I'm just out for a bit of a putter. Even back when I had Model A, which I would occasionally drive on the interstate, I never had a problem. A 30s sedan? No idea!

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Marty Roth]

LeAnne,

Your Buick should have been delivered with "Safety-Plate" glass in all windows. Why do you think they are not safety glass?

Get your wipers properly repaired, or use an electric motor instead of the vacuum (my '37's vacuum wipers now work well).

Headlight reflectors can be dramatically improved by sending them out to (I think) Oregon where the advertizer uses the "UVIRA" process - not very expensive, and well worth the time and $$.

You can mount high-mounted brake lights, even LED - designed to work with our 6-volt system, in your rear window. You should also line the taillight housing with aluminum foil to give superior reflectivity and much brighter brake / tail lights.

There are adapters for turn signals - Signal-Stat is one of those companies - they work fine on my 1937 Buick Roadmaster.

I'll probably think of more, but for now, I think you should get the "QQ" plates, use the car for hobby purposes, and enjoy the heck out of it - that's what old Buicks are for.

[Guest bofusmosby]

I too would get the QQ plates. Thats what I did for my '37. If I am ever stopped, I'll just say that I had just done some work on the car, and taking it out for a test-drive. Most of the law enforcment people I have come across are great people. Sure, there might be one bad apple in every barrel, but I am not going to saist my time worring about that one bad one. So far, I haven't taken my car out for many rides, but when I get it running good, that will increase. Hoever, it will never be a daily driver. There are too many idiots on the road that could cause damage.

[Harold]

I live in NJ as well and my vote is for the QQ's. You might draw more attention to your car and yourself if the car has regular plates.

I'm hoping to get one of my Plymouths back on the road soon and I'll be using QQ's.

Harold

[bill pritchett]

Depending upon where you live in NJ, you would be most welcome to join a local chapter of the AACA where the members are happy to help you with problems like those you have mentioned. Our chapter covers northern and parts of central NJ if you happen to live in our area. The website is below, and I am the webmaster and membership chairman. If you have any questions, please let me know.

I too would vote for QQ plates as you would probably drive it to car events.

NJ Region AACA Home

[LARRYCAROL]

My wife & I had similar concerns when we got our 65 ford. We got antique insurance & regular plates. We had that for 8yrs. Inspection was funny because line guys would stop to look & didnot know what to do about emmisions. We recently had to renew & opted for historic plates.(cheaper) Do not worry about police, they love old cars too. Just make sure your car is safe. If you come to Hershey look for us in HPOF. (blue 65ford w/jersey plates)

Larry

[Guest LeAnne323]

Gil, did you bring some of those cars to the show in Warren?

Marty, you must have one large, and rather nice, garage.

We are working on the wipers. There also seems to be a problem with a voltage drop to the right headlight which my husband is working on. We will look into the turn signal and headlight reflector plating this winter.

The cops are one problem with QQ plates, liablity is the other. If you never are in an accident no problem. However, if you are in one, a violation of the registration is a crime, can attach additional liablity, and may void coverage. These old cars are well past their service lives and stuiff fails.

The historic car community doesn't have membership of everyone with an old car and it is possible people have had problems not generally known.

Regular registration eliminates those issues. For example, aren't joy rides for friends, relatives, guests, and neighbors not permitted under the terms of QQ plates?

[Guest Dean_H.]

I agree with you LeAnne, the QQ plates are too restrictive. I know you can probably get away with using the QQ plates but I too would rather be 100% legal. Having the freedom to drive whenever you want is worth something, even if you don't use it.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

LeAnne, I,m not sure what you mean about the registration. What I do know is; you can't use your QQ tagged car for every day transportation like to commute to work.I doubt you would be using your72 year old car that way but some people think they can get like an 85 pickup slap QQs on there and save a couple thou in insurance and registration. there are always abusers. on the other hand, I have a friend who has a fleet of antiques,mostly Model As, who drives one of them almost every day around town and nobody bothers him. You pay for the registration the first time. After that you renew every 3 years but there's no fee. The ins costs roughly $100 per year for the first car,liability,collision and comp. the second car is less,the third car even less and any additional car is just the collision and comp. You don,t have to get it inspected as the state feels you will keep your show car in good order.

[mrspeedyt]

This thread subject again adds to my relief of moving to Arizona ... Yes, the registration fees ($31 for two years) may add up higher than your QQ fees... But we have much greater freedom to drive our old cars!

[John_Maine]

I think you'll be fine with antique plates as long as you don't use the car as an every day driver. I have both of my cars registered as antiques. Maine allows for shows, exhibitions and occasional public use. Once in a great while, I'll drive one to work for the day-not supposed to really, but I do if they've been sitting for awhile. Nice weekend days, I might just go for a drive or to the mall in the city. I got stopped once in the town next to mine when I first got my Buick. Don't remember where I was going, but a local cop noticed I didn't have an inspection sticker. He came blasting up behind me, lights on, and pulled me over. He sat in his car a couple of minutes, then came to my window and apologized for stopping me. Said he didn't notice the antique plates. Then last summer, I took the same car to the mall about 25 miles away. I was just about to the mall when I passed a cop coming in the opposite direction. As he passed me and went around a curve, I saw his brake lights come on. About 1/2 mile later as I was stopped at an intersection turning into the mall, he was right behind me. I turned, he went straight but doubled around the parking lot and gave me a look when I was getting out of the car. Since I don't wear the shoulder belt because it's not on a retractor and is generally uncomfortable, I think he thought I didn't have a seat belt on or perhaps noticed no inspection sticker and was going to stop me until he noticed the antique plate. I've also driven my LTD to Hershey and back 2x and never had a problem.

[jscheib]

Some interesting comments. Some have said they are getting anual insurance for about $100 for the first car. In my experience and know people with antique cars in several states, I suggest you think twice about that price, and double check what restrictions you have with your insurance company about total milage per year, etc. Also, proper values stated for insurance, apprasial, especially if you epect insurance to the value of your car. $100 sounds awfully cheap in todays market, but then everything is expense in CT.

John

[Guest LeAnne323]

The QQ says specifically:

To be considered a historic vehicle, the vehicle must be at least 25 years old and only used for exhibition and educational purposes by the owner. Historic plates can be purchased for $44.

That doesn't seem to legally allow driving around.

Since they did away with the safety inspection, we did the regular for 2010 and took it to inspection. Well...the failed it, one emissions. Last time, they said 1938 didn't have an emissions standard. We will call Trenton on Monday.

The inspection station manager said we should register it as a collector car. He said he has put the collector sticker on cars from the 60s. However, my husband printed out a page and the application, both of which say 25 years old or newer. While I wouldn't mind being younger than 25, I like the car being 72.

Can it be registered as a collector car? Does a 1938 have to pass an emissions test?

[jscheib]

Boy,

This sounds like you have some problems to resolve in NJ.

I, for one, am not sure what different catigories are available in NJ, so you really need to find out what others have done in NJ.

It seems what you describe as QQ is to be used only for trailered cars (of course if they do not ever see the roads, why would they need a tag???)

It seems like Collector Car is only for cars newer than 25 years old, yet the individual you talked to at the State Motor Vehicle said they put them on cars from the 60's, or 40 year old cars. So sorry if we seem confused. Are you sure that Collector Cars are not 25 years and older?

Something seems incorrect, IMO.

John

[MCHinson]

I am not from NJ, and have no practical experience in NJ law. For what it is worth, A quick search shows this as an explanation of the NJ law concerning historic vehicle registration.

State of New Jersey - Motor Vehicle Commission

[Dave Mellor NJ]

One thing good about this area is the abundance of antique car insurance companies. American Collectors in Cherry Hill, Condon and Skelly in Mt Laurel and JC Taylor in Upper Darby, Pa. Call or visit one of them and they will be glad to explain all you need to know about these policies. You don't have to take all our words for it.

[Guest LeAnne323]

Called Trenton...and here is the scoop:

1) Collector car must be no more than 25 years old.

2) Historic does have restrictions even if they aren't enforced.

3) V8s pre-emissions have to be less than 8.5% CO, 1400ppm HC.

First test was 8.46% and 2105ppm...failed.

Adjusted it and was able to get as low as 2.15% CO and 576ppm...PASSED!

We upped it a bit to 3.0% and 800ppm just to be safe.

[GARY F]

when i lived in n.j. i registered mine as QQ, i still have american collectors. i was able to drive to shows, cruize nights & sunday rides.

[oldcarfudd]

I live in NJ, have brass-era cars, and have QQ plates. The law says they're to be used for exhibitional and educational purposes. The law doesn't define these things. If I'm driving a brass-era car, I'm exhibiting it. If I park it, I'm exhibiting it. If I'm answering questions about it, I'm educating. If I'm giving someone a ride, I'm both exhibiting and educating. The HCCA calls itself the world's largest traveling museum of brass cars. Anywhere we park is a car show, and anywhere we drive is a parade.

I think anyone who drives a collector car that clearly looks different from a new one can use this approach. '20s cars, '30s cars, full classics, befinned bechromed behemoths, whatever. You might get stopped, you might even get ticketed, but you'll beat the ticket in court because these loose definitions are on your side. All those waves and honks you get? You're exhibiting. All those questions you answer? You're educating.

That said, I think if you're going to make a habit of driving at night, in the rain, in the rush hour, or on Interstates, you're operating your car like a daily driver and ought to get regular plates and inspections. (You probably ought also to upgrade your lights and brakes!) And, if you're driving something at the young end of the antique spectrum that looks a lot like a new car, you're probably at more risk because you're not exhibiting or educating - most people don't even know a 25-year-old car is old.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Guest LeAnne323]

We have been at shows where it is dark when you need to get home. Or there was an unexpected rain. However, we try to avoid both.

The big issues are the lights. No turnsignals (an option for 1939) and drivers used to bright, high mounted center brake lights (new for 1986) vs the small, dim in dailight tailights. Other drivers don't understand the turn signals and get surprised when you stop.

[Durant Mike]

Noticed your posting and thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. First if you read the conditions of most collector car insurance most will allow you to drive occasionally for a cruise or to cruise night or to go get ice cream etc. Just don't use it as a daily driver to and from work or school etc and most have a limitation on how many miles a year you can put on. Some companies are more lenient than others or you can choose higher mileage limits for additional premium. I would not be overly concerned about short trips or tours with other antique cars. As far as the light issue, there are things you can do to make your lights a bit more reflective such as chrome paint inside the housing, or other reflective material that you can buy. This will not be as good as a factory reflector, but it will help to brighten the lights up. Also if you check the AACA magazine and/or Hemmings Classic Car magazine there is an advertiser that sells a 6 volt LED 3rd brake light that will go up in the rear window for I believe under $50. You can get this with suction cups that allow you to mount this on the inside of your rear window glass. If you plan to show your car you can unplug the light and remove it for show but it helps to add to your rear break lights. I plan on using this on my Durant which has only 1 tail light. You can always add aftermarket period looking turn signals to your car with probably a good afternoons work. You can by the column mounted switch, flasher and wiring harness for them and mount them on the front bumper and rear bumper of your car.

As far as the police go, I was a motorcycle traffic Officer many years back. I know that most of the law enforcement Officers will not bother you as they have much more to deal with than worry about you in your antique car. Yes there is the occasional jerk out there who has no idea of the exemption of some laws by antique vehicles and what is or is not required but I would not worry about those until you come across one. I'd get the proper insurance, put the antique plates on and drive the car. Like someone else said everytime you take the car out your educating the public on the history of the automotive industry in the United States and that should cover the education part of New Jersey law.