Not just a judging issue. The Hershey Region is talking ...

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last year in Cumberland, someone's dog wrapped its' metal leash around the front of Charlie Pergl's '56 Chevy. To say that Charlie was <span style="font-weight: bold">IRATE</span> would be putting it mildly. I just happened to witness a heated exchange between him and the Chief Judge (Dave Berg). I was glad that I wasn't in Dave's shoes that morning. Charlie was <span style="font-weight: bold">HOT</span>. If you've ever seen Charlie's cars, you'd fully understand why. </div></div>

Boy, it would be interesting to have seen this "discussion". It would be even more interesting to see those posters in this thread who have said "that is what insurance is for" say that to this individual. No doubt those posters would have gotten an earful and then some.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve Moskowitz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The long story short is that dogs are allowed AS LONG AS THEY ARE ON A LEASH. Security has been notified, etc. That is the official explanation of the region. </div></div>

Based on the number of posts in this thread and the number of people reading it I sure hope that Hershey Region and AACA National are revisiting this issue if they have not done so recently. Just because this might have been the policy for years does not mean it should continue without a serious and meaningful dialogue with HERCO on this subject. If this subject has been discussed recently with HERCO and they will not budge on this policy then that is a different matter.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Charlie, this is not a national policy. We have nothing in our Policy and Procedures manual and never had in regards to pets. Every town, city or state has their local laws and regulations let alone the property owner. Many of our venues are on public land and prohibition against pets is not allowed.

As a dog owner myself, I would not bring my pet to a show of this type. That is my personal feeling for the safety and comfort of my dog. However, there are dogs that can be carried around and there were Great Danes the size of a horse there last year! Some dogs were brought there by club members and some were by the general public.

The written policy for many years at Hershey was no dogs allowed. I rarely saw it enforced unless the dog was not on a leash and not in control by its owner. This subject was addressed by the region and HERCO recently and their decision was as stated as above.

All I can suggest if members seriously find offense to this that they contact the Hershey Region. I do know that many vendors and others will welcome the new policy.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packin31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If not I will have to go topless </div></div>

<span style="font-size: 17pt">MY EYES!!!!!!! MY EYES!!!!!! </span>

[keiser31]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packin31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If not I will have to go topless </div></div>

<span style="font-size: 17pt">MY EYES!!!!!!! MY EYES!!!!!! </span></div></div>

Yes...there are some images that you just can't scratch out of your mind's eye...

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve Moskowitz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> All I can suggest if members seriously find offense to this that they contact the Hershey Region.</div></div>

Which I did and listed some of the reasons that they should not allow spectators to bring dogs to the show and flea market. I have never seen any problems with dogs owned by vendors or vehicle owners. They "get it" about keeping dogs away from the public and the property of others. The same can't be said for much of the public that bring dogs.

I have been to too many functions where dogs were brought by the general public and it was not good. Just wait until two people bring a couple of territorial dogs and there is a dog fight. Saw that at a local river festival. Very scary. People were grabbing their kids and running.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keiser31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes...used correctly, they are fine. I believe that you are a good dog owner by the sounds of it. </div></div>

Thanks keiser31. I try to be. I don't put my dog outside in her kennel until after at least 9 a.m. And not until after 11 a.m. on Sundays. I keep her messes cleaned up every day. I carry a muzzle in my car just incase. ANY dog can bite.

[keiser31]

Is that new rule going to include ferrets?

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keiser31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that new rule going to include ferrets? </div></div>

We love those!!!! We have had a total of six of them over the years. We just had to say good-bye to our last one in March. She was a month short of nine years old.

I hear they make really good chassis judges. Better than dogs even for those low to the ground vehicles.

[Earl B.]

I bet a ferret could give the inside of a tailpipe a great check out too as goosd as they love to explore!!..B

[Shop Rat]

The down side is that if they decide to fall asleep.....you could be waiting for hours.

[Guest Siegfried]

Hello there, YES I AM A Hershey Region Member, or at least I pay my dues and since I'm no longer on the board I am just along for the ride. I am a co-chair for a Fal Meet activity and I was at the chairmans meeting last March when we were told that dogs would be allowed to be at Hershey in the flea market , car show, etc. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DOGGIES THAT VENDORS TRAVEL WITH. I AM TALKING ABOUT JOHN Q PUBLIC WHO ARRIVES AT THE SHOW WITH POOCH IN HAND. Pooch in hand is going to be a problem because your average spectator out for a days romp is going to probably NOT be paying attention to doggie and his physical needs. Be they they pottie, and lets not forget the water poochis needs on a HOT day.

SURPRISE, SURPRISE, but HERCO does NOT allow doggies in the amusement park unless they are guide dogs. SORRY NCT, but you wre NOT dead on the money about HERCO and dogs. You were RIGHT ON about HERCO makes the rules, and HR only rents the property for a few days. BUT, lets look at it from another perspective. Does HERCO want to lose the event? Probably not. Does AACA want to lose the event? Again, NO!!! So, why doesn't HR, and national go to HERCO and say' Golly Gee, we've got a problem, what do we do about doggies that arrive with a visiting apectator?

If doggies are allowed, can I bring my pet ocelot if I keep him on a lease?? Absurd, but the point is, If you allow a spectator to bring in one type of animal on a leash, then why not others? And you know as well as I do that someone down the road will decide to just that absurd thing, and then you've got a problem.

Responsible commentary is more then welcome. I may not be dead on for everyone, but it is my opinion and I'm agonna express it.

LETS HERE YOU'RE.

By theway, does it matter to anyone on thid topic if I print all this out and deliver to the head HR fall meet honcho and his trusty sidekicks???

[Guest Siegfried]

Steve, my sincere Thanks for your comments. Rest assured I am not trying to start a war. I am genuinely concerned that someone, or someones vehicle is going to get damaged by someone who arrives with there dog on a day trip to fall meet. I am not at all concerned about the vendor who brings their dog along in their motor home. If I had a motor home I'd be traveling with my horde of 5 cats none of which is an ocelot, but 2 of them are 25 pounder plus some.

HR and HERCO have to get together on a policy concerning pets on leashes in the flea markey and car show, etc.

[TG57Roadmaster]

There's usually a hold-harmless agreement in fine print when you sign and commit to a show, so visions of riches from lawsuits are pipe dreams. That is, if you're there with a vehicle or as a vendor. Do the pet owners have to sign similar releases to parade Fido around for the day?

There are enough hazards and constraints involved in showing a car, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">any</span></span> car, or selling your stuff, that, to this former vendor, one more obstacle is really off-putting.

What a ridiculous policy! Does HERCO think they'll sell more chocolate bars and tschotschkes because of it? Are they going to allow the precious pets into their museum, rides and

other venues at Chocolate Town? Crikey, dogs don't even <span style="font-style: italic">like</span> the stuff;

indeed, they get sick and can die from it.

The cars and the vendors bring the crowds, so when are we as the group that draws

global throngs (and their $$$$) going to say, <span style="font-style: italic">"Enough!"</span>

That ill-conceived "policy" is enough for me; the line in the sand is clearly drawn.

I'm just one small voice, but there'll be no Hershey for me; too bad,

as there's some nice rolling iron coming down the pike.

Look for it elsewhere.

TG

[tbirdman]

Sounds like a majority on this forum would prefer to keep pets where they belong. I wonder who petition the region to get them to change policy to allow pets. I still question why you would allow pets at the car show let alone the flea market.

[Restorer32]

A pack mule could come in handy in the flea market.

[Guest windjamer]

S.I. I am pretty sure that the Hershey region is aware of this thread, I am also prety sure they work for the benafit of the members. I think maby they just need a little push,your printing this thread and handing it to the region may be that push. T.G. makes a vary good point,I would hope that the region would re-think this change befor others start to think like T.G.

[Restorer32]

I suspect "Hershey" is more of a pain in the butt to Herco than it is a money maker. I wouldn't assume we are doing them a favor by having our show there. I am not aware of other venues clamoring to host the event, or am I mistaken?

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Semi-Intelligent</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BUT, lets look at it from another perspective. Does HERCO want to lose the event? Probably not. Does AACA want to lose the event? Again, NO!!! So, why doesn't HR, and national go to HERCO and say' Golly Gee, we've got a problem, what do we do about doggies that arrive with a visiting apectator?

If doggies are allowed, can I bring my pet ocelot if I keep him on a lease?? Absurd, but the point is, If you allow a spectator to bring in one type of animal on a leash, then why not others? And you know as well as I do that someone down the road will decide to just that absurd thing, and then you've got a problem.

Responsible commentary is more then welcome. I may not be dead on for everyone, but it is my opinion and I'm agonna express it.</div></div>

Gee this thread is up to almost 100 posts and over 1,150 views. Imagine that.

Maybe HERCO, Hershey Region and AACA National should look at this from another perspective.

WHEN, not IF, something happens as a result of this new policy, can HERCO, Hershey Region and AACA National withstand the NEGATIVE PUBLICITY of say a dog attacking a child at an event? What will the cost be when it comes to PUBLIC and AACA Member TRUST in these organizations and their leadership???? Then when the news organizations learn of this thread and the STRONG feelings of the AACA MEMBERS against this policy and how HERCO, Hershey Region and AACA National did little/nothing to prevent it that will open up the floodgates of NEGATIVE PUBILICITY and will, most likely, put a smile on the faces of some lawyers.

The bottom line for HERCO, Hershey Region and AACA National is the downside of this policy, Lawsuits, legal costs, impact on event insurance, Negative Pubilicity, AACA Members feeling they are being IGNORED regarding their LEGITIMATE concerns really worth letting John Q. Public bring dogs onto the show field???? From strictly a business perspective, one has to really wonder why such a policy has been put in place? If there are no governmental regulations that dictate such a policy for private property, then what is the motivation/reason behind this policy? Maybe HERCO, Hershey Region and AACA National would care to explain this? BTW, any explanation that includes "because HERCO says so" is no explanation but simply an excuse.

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This subject was addressed by the region and HERCO recently and their decision was as stated as above.

</div></div>

While there may or may not be a future isolated problem with "public" dogs at Hershey the subject has generated a fairly large concern with the show participants.

Perhaps the subject would be defused if the "powers" that agreed to allow dogs would explain the rational and reasoning behind the decision.

I can understand not wanting to respond to every small question or criticism but the concern over the dog issue seems quite compelling. And, truth be known, it is "our" show after all.

In the face of the large concern, an official silence on the issue might be perceived as an imperious "because we said so" type of answer.......Bob

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Bob,

Though the respondents on this Forum (all threads) appear to be an overwhelming number I must remind myself that we Forum regulars are in actuality a minority. A huge percentage of AACA Members that frequent our National Meets do not care to even come on line let alone participate in our discussions. This includes Region/Chapter Officers so to get any messages across should be directed to the proper decision makers. Over the years I have seen so many thread topics of complaint or in search of an official answer fully cognizant that they are <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> going to receive a response or resolution on this Forum...just a lot of opinions with no closure.

As a matter of fact the majority of regulars on this AACA Forum are not even members of our great club. This includes all of the Marque (Guest) Forums.

I suppose it is a case of perception is not necessarily reality syndrom.

Just my 2-cents,

Peter J.

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forum regulars are in actuality a minority. A huge percentage of AACA Members that frequent our National Meets do not care to even come on line let alone participate in our discussions. </div></div>

Everything you you say is true, Peter, however "sampling" is a very valid method of gageing opinions and is, in fact, the method used in most of the "polls" you read about.

Since the dog issue raised such a response, most of it negative, it can be reasonably infered that the general membership would devide along similar lines. Forum participation or AACA affiliation should have little impact.

The point of my post was that since the issue is raising a large concern in a valid sample of car owners it might be benificial if the decision makers made the rational behind that decision known. Communication is the key to harmony.

Just for the record. I don't feel allowing public dogs on the show field is a good idea but I really don't think there will be more than minor problems......Bob

[Peter J.Heizmann]

True about polls, Bob.

My point is until someone phones/e-mails/writes to any target entity and receives an official reponse to a complaint these complaint threads seldom are resolved here. They remain a venting avenue with no closure.

What I have done over the years on this forum is simply send an e-mail to "XYZ Club" or "XYZ Company", inform them there are questions or complaints being aired out on the AACA Forum, give them a fair chance to respond, and, then we hear from the horses (dogs) mouth.

Personally I respect the opinions of those who do not like dogs on showfields. I never really worried about it myself, but, it is obviously a concern by some who posted here.

Regards,

Peter J.

[Steve Moskowitz]

I am neither a Hershey Region member or do I work for HERCO so all I can do is report. Since very few of the region members are active forum users I asked the region for the correct answer on this matter and posted it on their behalf. While the show grounds are leased by the region for the event, they still have to live with lots of issues on many sides. I am sure that this issue was discussed in earnest by all of the officials involved in making the final policy. I also think there are other issues that the region would like not to have to abide by but there are compelling reasons to do so! Many regulations are between the region, HERCO and their insurance carriers plus the township rules to top things off!

I am going to state something that will probably be perceived wrong in some corners. Some will say "if you can't stand the heat...". However, one of the reasons I have heard by people all around the country for their lack of willingness to post on our forum is what they perceive is attacks by individuals. Sorry, but that is a fact. I have seen many instances personally over the last five years where someone tried to be of help and all they got in return was grief. So at least I understand why they do not get on this forum. I have no choice as it is part of my job and am willing to take the snipes. Others just do not want the added stress. I am not saying that this is the case over this matter but a general concern I have heard from MANY!

If the post sounded imperious it was not meant to by any party as it was just a statement of fact and I had no details to expand upon.

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If the post sounded imperious it was not meant to by any party it was just a statement of fact and I had no details to expand upon.

</div></div>

Your ermine robe, crown, and royal scepter had me fooled. JUST KIDDING!

I wasn't specificly refering to your post,Steve.

I can very much see where trying to answer every post or critisicm with an "official" explaination would be tiresom at best and bedlam at worst.

And Peter you are absolutley correct that contacting the "powers" directly is the way to do things.

It just seemed since this issue raised such concern among over 100 respondants that some "official" explanation of the reasons might help.

Steve, I'm surprised to hear that anyone considers this forum mean or unruly. I think it's very decorious ( and only a little bit imperious )......8-)........Bob

[Friartuck]

My observations on this topic and my reasons. In a few years, I plan on using a RV and trailer to take 30-60 day long trips where I would participate to shows in other regions of the country. At that time, I do plan on having a canine companion and would want to have it with me. Leaving it in the RV is unthinkable & inhumane if not illegal in some parts. If the show's rules were no dogs allowed, I simply would not attend. I would not compromise my companion (and its comfort) for the sake of attending a show. As a show participant I would uphold the same standards towards others as I would want others to apply to me. I would know better not to have a metal leash graze a chrome bumper. I do realize however that standards and their adherence are not alike.

A main reason for attending a show is to share with others your project and the oppurtunity to see others as well. Example is during the National meet at Hagerstown in 2004, an elderly gentlemen from Virginia (or W.Va) exhibited his mid 1920's blue Rolls Royce Convt. As I recall, he had a young man in his town drive the 125+ miles just to attend. He was thrilled to be there and more than eager to share & explain various things. My point is he went well out of his way to share with us his project just as I plan on doing via the RV method. It would have been a crime if the "climate" were such where he couldn't attend: The Gent would be annoyed and spectors would have missed out. Isn't the bigger picture the ability to participate and perhaps the Hershey Region's motivation was to pave the way for the conduct of all shows? How does impedding participation help the hobby? Granted, some form of standards must be observed for all. They should be followed and expected in return.

I think this can be worked if we try. BTW, how do we handle incidents now like belt buckles scratching an exhibitors car?

Chris W.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Bob, it has become so unruly at times we are coming out with new Kevlar AACA vests! I did not take your remarks personally but the issue of willingness to post on this forum was just addressed to me again this past weekend at a meet. It is sad but we do chase people away and do give people a bad impression of our hobby AT TIMES in this forum. In the meantime, I am glad so many of you enjoy it.

[Guest Stonefish]

I've seen kids on leashes misbehaving at car shows too...give them the boot too!

[keiser31]

I really have no problems with folks bringing an animal of any sort (or a child) to a car show. I would simply prefer that the owner/parent would have control over the animal/child that they bring. The people that should be encouraged NOT to bring them are the ones that let them run around like banshees without respect of the time, effort and money put into these restored cars. That is ALL on the owner/parent.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Semi-Intelligent</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> By theway, does it matter to anyone on thid topic if I print all this out and deliver to the head HR fall meet honcho and his trusty sidekicks??? </div></div>

I hereby release you to print off any of my posts to be used as you have specified.

[Guest AlK]

Friartuck:

When you say 'RV' I sense you are talking about a large, say 25' to 40' motorhome. While it is illegal to leave a pet in a van, car, or truck with the windows closed etc.etc. I know of no laws any where about leaving a dog in an air-conditioned RV with plenty of water ETC. which my wife and I have done for years. The dog is happier and so is everyone else. Bringing the family pet to a venue such as Hershey, Carlisle or any event of that size is my definition of inhumane and sheer stupidity(service dogs excluded of course). The dogs don't enjoy it and the other people do not enjoy it, so leave it in comfort at the campground. If it's not at a campground and you are out in the parking lot of the event and it is a fully equipped RV then crank up the generator and turn on the A/C. Now let me illustrate the importance of not bringing a pet(in the illustration a dog) to an event. I say an event because my illustration was not a car show, but the circumstances are basically the same. My wife and I used to perform at the Tennessee renaissance festival many years ago. One saturday while greeting people a few patrons came in with dogs. One guy came in right after them and saw these people and said that he would be back tomorrow and bring his rottwieler. I begged and pleaded with him not to. His response was "oh he so gentle he would not hurt a soul'. Yeah right. Next day, he shows up with said Rotty. He was not there 30 minutes when the dog nipped the cheek of a little 7 year girl. No one could tell whether the little girl did anything or she was just at the right level or the dog perceived a threat from the little girl or whatever. As a result, because the dog nipped her and broke the skin, the sherrif had to be called along with the dog warden and EMS. the little girl was o.k. and even though the dog was current on his shots, the dog warden had to take the dog and had to confine it for 30 days. the man got his dog back but still there was alot of angry people there that day and all of them had valid viewpoints. As the man left the event that day to attend to his dog, I broke character somewhat and in the most sarcastic, disgusted manner I could convey I asked him if it was worthwhile bringing the dog even after I had pleaded with him not to. If looks could have killed I would be dead. But he got the point. Bottom line point LEAVE THE DOG HOME, IT'S BETTER FOR EVERYONE CONCERNED.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TG57Roadmaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's usually a hold-harmless agreement in fine print when you sign and commit to a show, so visions of riches from lawsuits are pipe dreams. </div></div>

However, that is not absolute. Adults <span style="font-weight: bold">cannot</span> sign away the rights of a minor child. And if negligence can be proven it won't hold up either. The Hershey Region has now been warned of the potential negative issues regarding allowing the general public to bring dogs to the their AACA event. So if something does happen, they can't say they were not aware of the dangers.

[Restorer32]

Perhaps Hershey Region is just recognizing the obvious. There have always been dogs at Hershey just as there has always been alcohol regardless of the rules. How in the world would you enforce a "NO DOGS" rule or for that matter has the "NO ALCOHOL" rule ever been enforced? They can barely control traffic let alone dogs and alcohol. Besides, it is amazingly easy to have a dog registered as a "Service Animal". I have a non handicapped friend who had his 2 German Shepherds certified as service dogs simply so they could fly in the cabin with him on commercial flights. It is illegal to even question a person with a Service Dog regarding what if any disability they have. Of all the many hazards faced by antique cars on and off the show field I think dogs are pretty far down the list. You can't legislate common sense.

[keiser31]

My wife was about 7 years old when she attended a dog show with her folks. She got her cheek ripped open by a "show" dog. If that can happen at a DOG show, it could and has happened at car shows. Leave the non-service dogs at home and spare us all the possible anger and trauma. If you simply can not go without your "little friend", stay home. So sorry to be terse, but give us all a break and go with a little logic. A wrong look or smell can certainly set a dog off.

[Shop Rat]

This little girl was barely three years old when she was bitten in the face by a neighbor's beagle. She was riding on the shoulders of her next door neighbor and wanted to pet the dog. So he bent over for her to do that. The dog jumped up and bit her in the face. This photo was taken by one of her newspaper editor father's photographers following the incident. Later they found out that the dog had bitten other people also.

The little girl was me. I still have the scars from the bites. Look how close the worst place is to my left eye.

[Guest Stonefish]

Bottom line is enforcement...for all of it: Bicycles, golf carts, dogs etc...etc. There aren't enough people to enforce and there are too many entry points. I enjoyed watching my ex-neighbor driving onto the Giant Center lot with his John Deere Gator, uncontested, last year.

[keiser31]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This little girl was barely three years old when she was bitten in the face by a neighbor's beagle. She was riding on the shoulders of her next door neighbor and wanted to pet the dog. So he bent over for her to do that. The dog jumped up and bit her in the face. This photo was taken by one of her newspaper editor father's photograpthers following the incident. Later they found out that the dog had bitten other people also.

The little girl was me. I still have the scars from the bites. Look how close the worst place is to my left eye. </div></div>

I forgot to mention....the dog that bit my wife, Cherrie had bitten three other people previously to the show she attended.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Ah, please don't! I got the message and will pass it along to national activities but we do not make rules for our regions on matters such as this. This is one of those issues that has many twists and turns which I do not need to inflame. Citizens have rights, organizers have rights, vendors have rights and so do members who show cars.

Did anyone see the two Great Danes at the show last year? They were bigger than one of my cars! As I said, I am a dog owner and my personal preference is to protect them and the public both. I would not dream of bringing my dog to such a venue unless he was small enough to hold. However, others have differences of opinions and know the nature of their dog better than anyone. This has not been a huge problem at Hershey to my knowledge. This office has never fielded a complaint in five years and I know of no insurance claim for a dog bite. We have many more bigger issues to deal with it seems to me. One of my friends emailed me that we get "a thousand hits about a dog and can't get 100 hits on a serious car issue". My other quip came that we needed a leash law for some hobbyists not dogs! Since I know of physical confrontations that have occurred at meets I might agree.

Semi..this thread has served a purpose and alerted people to views about dogs. There is no need to escalate it further in my opinion. I also know the region is aware of the thread and as I said it will be forwarded on to our appropriate director.

[MCHinson]

Steve, Thanks for passing along the information and for your patience.

Susan, I certainly can now understand why you are so passionate about this issue. (You were a cute kid even with the dog bite, great photo...)

The Hershey Region has certainly been made aware of the concerns. That does not mean that they will change their decision, nor that they should do so. Continuing to rehash it here will not do anything else beneficial.

If folks who are vendors want to have their dogs with them, (and some certainly do) it makes more sense to allow dogs rather then have the vendors being allowed to violate the rules with a wink and a nod. The rules have to apply equally to everybody.

As has been prevously posted, you can't legislate common sense.

I have faith that if someone is causing a problem with a dog, they can and will be asked to leave. Rules are in place to allow folks who are causing a problem to be removed, whether they have a dog or not.

The world is not a perfect place. Do people violate rules? Yes, certainly they do. Do they all get caught? No, but that does not mean that more rules are necessarily the way to solve problems.

I respect folks who have differing opinions on this issue.

While I don't want to see moderators have to lock this discussion, I really would like to see it drop off of the RADAR, and let us get back to discussing some more great car topics.

Common Sense will help resolve most disputes and we really don't need to continue to debate this issue in this forum.

Maybe we can get back to helping Mastertech solve his Jeep Death Wobble issue. I know it is not really quite old car related, and I know nothing about Jeeps, and very little about front end suspension components, but I am really enjoying reading about that one. I might learn a thing or two reading that one.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MCHinson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve, Thanks for passing along the information and for your patience.</div></div>

Yes, thanks Steve.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Susan, I certainly can now understand why you are so passionate about this issue. (You were a cute kid even with the dog bite, great photo...) </div></div>

Thanks to you too MCH. It is part of why I feel the way I do about the subject. That and what I have seen in the past at other events. (And thanks for the compliment. )

[Guest windjamer]

I hope not,but if we must live with this new policy I do hope the region will post a member at each gate or ent. to issue a doggy bag to owners for use as pooper scoopers.