Rusty Craig Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 My dad has a 1966 pontiac Lemans sprint. I guess there were only around 750 produced so it's extremely rare. The car came from CA and has little rust, straight body, and still runs. All original and can still see a little bit of the racing stripe in the paint. Needs work but would be the perfect project car. The VIN is 237176Z600907 Any info would help. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 A good place to start:http://www.manheimgold.com/car_lo.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Don't get your hopes up too high. 750 of any car produced is not rare, let alone extremely rare. IMO.If you want to get the most money for it, put it on e-Bay for the world to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnpaul Ragusa Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty Craig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My dad has a 1966 pontiac Lemans sprint. I guess there were only around 750 produced so it's extremely rare. The car came from CA and has little rust, straight body, and still runs. All original and can still see a little bit of the racing stripe in the paint. Needs work but would be the perfect project car. The VIN is 237176Z600907 Any info would help. Thanks </div></div>You may want to double check that. According to your VIN your car was the 907th off the line.As for value here is what Manhiem Gold Says (value from unrunning project car on left to show car on right)2D COUPE 1966-67 230/165 6C 2,500 4,600 6,500 9,000 If you have pictures post them. Maybe someone can help narrow the field down. I agree to just put it on Ebay and see where it goes if you want to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Considering how many cars were produced in the 5 digit number range, I would say that 750 IS very rare. Not like a one-off, but certainly rare. I can't see in any of my books that there were 750 of that particular car made, but it would be a rare care if that were so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Can we agree to disagree? 750 of anything is not rare, in my book. Now, if only 10 remained, that would make it somewhat rare. The remainder is what makes an object rare, not it's production number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Let me add that just because something's rare doesn't make it desirable or valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Yes, Barry.....we can agree on that. Edsels are sorta rare, but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Craig Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 So is there a book or something that we could find out more about the car and how many were actually produced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Wolk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me add that just because something's rare doesn't make it desirable or valuable. </div></div>Amen to that. As I like to point out, green interiors were rare when new because they were not popular. That doesn't make them any more desirable or valuable now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG57Roadmaster Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 If the "one of around 750 made" is correct, out of 78,109 Lemans 2drht's built, that makes it less than 1% of production. A 10% survival rate would make 75 cars remaining; at 5%, 38 cars. Rare by any measure, when was the last time you saw one?Opinions are like certain body parts; everybody has 'em.TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Rare because it's something special or rare because nobody thought to save any?And, you're right about opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Something special is sometimes rare...if you disposed of all of the glass Coca Cola bottles made except for 1, would it be rare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Wolk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me add that just because something's rare doesn't make it desirable or valuable. </div></div>Cow poop in the subway is rare, that doesn't make it worth more than regular cow poop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnpaul Ragusa Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty Craig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So is there a book or something that we could find out more about the car and how many were actually produced? </div></div>If your hoping for a low production number to escalate it's worth dont bother. The Sprint package gives about a 5% boost to the price. Its actually a Tempest Lemans with Sprint Package. Do you know if the car has Air Conditioning? What engine?Try www.nadaguides.com Are you trying to sell it, appraise it for insurance, restore it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Johnpaul Ragusa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your hoping for a low production number to escalate it's worth dont bother. The Sprint package gives about a 5% boost to the price. Its actually a Tempest Lemans with Sprint Package. Do you know if the car has Air Conditioning? What engine? </div></div>"What engine?" The whole point of the Sprint package was the engine. It was a high performance version of the Pontiac OHC inline six, with higher compression, split exhaust manifolds, and a 4bbl carb. If your price reference that claims the 5% premium doesn't even differentiate that the engine in this package is unique, then I'm skeptical of the accuracy of the values it contains (that plus the fact that these cars sell so infrequently that statistically meaningful auction data probably doesn't exist). Here's a period magazine ad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Johnpaul Ragusa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your hoping for a low production number to escalate it's worth dont bother. The Sprint package gives about a 5% boost to the price. Its actually a Tempest Lemans with Sprint Package. Do you know if the car has Air Conditioning? What engine?Try www.nadaguides.com Are you trying to sell it, appraise it for insurance, restore it? </div></div>The Sprint option package on a 1966 Tempest included probably the last true high-compression 6 cylinder American engine. For $121 the buyer got an extra 42 hp from a 10.5:1 compression engine, 4 brl. carb, suspension and drivetrain upgrades, plus a few unique dress-up items, including the stripes Rusty referred to. They are quite desirable. They were also faster and more expensive than a 326 cu. in. V8 LeMans. ( see cardomain.com link )I don't know of an accurate production number for the package (the <span style="font-style: italic">Standard Catalog of Pontiac</span> lists it as "undetermined"), but they <span style="text-decoration: underline">are</span> quite rare. I remember seeing one at Carlisle about 20 year ago, and that's it.The VIN number is only for Tempests built at that plant. The Sprint was not a unique model.One in mint condition sold at a Mecum auction in October ( Lot F141, St. Charles, IL ). Does anyone have access to their site to get the final bid amount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 We did it again, Joe! 2 similar posts at <span style="text-decoration: underline">exactly</span> the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG57Roadmaster Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Rusty,That '66 LeMans Sprint at Mecum was bid up to $15,000 and didn't sell, understandable for what appears to be a nice car.From the auction page: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Sprint with its overhead cam 6 cylinder engine has been gaining recognition among car collectors recently - Only OHC engine made in America during the 1950's & 1960's - High output engine - 4-speed transmission - Bill of sale - Protect-O-Plate - <span style="color: #FF0000">More rare than a GTO</span></div></div> The Tempest, Tempest Custom, and LeMans were separate series, and the Sprint Package could be ordered in all three for '66. For '67, the package was also available in the Firebird. GTO's are plentiful and many "Tribute Goats" have been made, the Sprints are rare and worth keeping. Here's a link to some cool pages from someone who (thankfully) resisted the urge to muck up a '66 Sprint to make an ersatz GTO.You should be very proud to own one.In late-1968, Max Factor created a line of men's toiletries called, <span style="font-style: italic">"GTO"</span>. Larger, click once after opening.Curiously, the cologne & after shave when packaged together came in a box called <span style="font-style: italic">"the sprint."</span> This barely-used example resides in my medicine chest.TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_steve Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Don't let the "nattering nabobs of negativism" get you down--the "hot rod six" Pontiac is a truly cool machine, and a really significant car in American automotive history, IMHO. I admired a local one at a car show in my area a few years ago, then did some historical research about it (since I was unfamiliar), which made me appreciate it even more (engine photo of the car that I took below). Good luck and have fun with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbbuick22 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Hi, I bought a new Tempest Sprint in 1966 but mine was a 2 dr coupe,not a Lemans, 4speed positraction and power steering I think I paid $2800, things have changed!! It was a great carand a lot of fun, used to surprise many 289 Mustangs, after a little fender bender, I replaced the hood with one from a GTO,it looked great, color was marina tourquise and I think the int.was green , bench seat in front. A lot of great memories, still remember the exhaust sound, like no other American car. JB 22-6-55 Sport Touring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG57Roadmaster Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 JB,Check the link in my post above...it's all about a guy's turquoise '66 LeMans Sprint, and packed with info. Now I look forward to see (and hear) one in the flesh.TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted By: Barry WolkLet me add that just because something's rare doesn't make it desirable or valuable.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cow poop in the subway is rare, that doesn't make it worth more than regular cow poop. </div></div>Yeah, but in the subway it sure costs a lot more to clean it up than it does down on the farm. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TG57Roadmaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That '66 LeMans Sprint at Mecum was bid up to $15,000 and didn't sell, understandable for what appears to be a nice car.</div></div>While I agree that the Sprint is a rare and collectible auto, I will also point out that unless cash actually changes hands at a sale, any "reserve not met" prices are meaningless. Same thing goes for ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Paquin Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Thom McCan also sold GTO shoes in '66 - I had a pair to go along with my new GTO (seemed like a good idea at the time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I'd bet those GTO shoes would be worth a few bucks today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnpaul Ragusa Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joe_padavano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TG57Roadmaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That '66 LeMans Sprint at Mecum was bid up to $15,000 and didn't sell, understandable for what appears to be a nice car.</div></div>While I agree that the Sprint is a rare and collectible auto, I will also point out that unless cash actually changes hands at a sale, any "reserve not met" prices are meaningless. Same thing goes for ebay. </div></div>If reserve isnt met the auctioneer can "shill" if you will so really it means bupkiss.As for my question on the engine, I guess I meant to ask if it was the original engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Craig Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yes the car still has the original ohc 6 with 4 brl. 94,000 actual miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG57Roadmaster Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Rusty,How difficult would it be to post pics of the Sprint? If you take digital pics of it, we can help you post them here. It would be nice to know what the interior & exterior colors are, and overall condition; pics help.TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boblichty Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I had a 67 Tempest Custom Sprint 2dr hardtop. It was not close to mint but decent and sold it in the low teens at a Florida auction. I had it for sale for a long time at around $20,000 when GTO's were still up in the $30's. Seemed fair as Sprints are rare due to poor survial rate. The engines as much fun as they were tended to have valve train problems and wore out fast.Also, I found that I had very few calls on the car, not because of condition or price but because so few guys know the Sprints and how special they were. So when I did get a call the guys knew exactly what it was and what they were looking for, but they were few and far between. I bet a 326 V8 Lemans would sell quicker and they are as common as dirt.There is a mint condition red 67 LeMans Sprint hardtop in our town right now and I believe the man is asking someplace in the high $20's for it. It is spectacular. I could give anyone his number if you want.I would recommend ordering a report on the car from Pontiac Historical Services. A PHS report will be a big help. There web address is.... http://www.phs-online.comI hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Craig Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 My dad sent some photos in the mail, should be here in a few days so i'll post them. Where do I add pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Follow these instructions, Rusty!!Click Here! Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty Craig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My dad sent some photos in the mail, should be here in a few days so i'll post them. Where do I add pictures? </div></div>Rusty, you might consider going to the Ponitac - Oakland Club and to High Performance Pontiac for some more feedback on the Sprint.I've known these cars since new, when by happenstance, there were two LeMans Sprints and a Firebird Sprint in my neighborhood. Discussion on rarity aside, they are very desirable cars for all the reasons cited. I'd say you've got yourself a family heirloom.I'm jealous.Cheers,JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldiebutgoodie Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Check out the NADA website and under classic car section, it will give you a answer, also check out Hemmings book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Al Swearingen Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I guess I'm chiming in late, but I just read this, registered and thought I'd ad my .02 cents. First, I also own a '66 LeMans Sprint and have been in the GTO/Pontiac hobby for many years, yet, I don't call myself an expert, just fairly knowlegable. I saw a '66 Sprint at a GTO show a few years back, also did research and found the car to be extremely interesting. I began my search and found one a coule years ago, needs work but an original #s matching car and with factory A/C. I have the build sheet and all is correct. There were many OHC6 cars that were 'donated' to the GTO clone cause so many were lost, even a few Sprints. Does this make them rare? Rarity vs value is in the eye and the pocket book of those looking but.. there were not many Sprints built. I even had several suggest that mine would make a good clone. But, after finding out that they are a GREAT car I'm proud to say that I bought the car because it was an OHC6 Sprint. And plan on keeping it that way, even though I may still 'play' with it since I've also aquired a tri-power set up for the side draft on the OHC engine, it's real cool! Now that tri-power set up.... it's a rare. Mr. Wangers stopped by my garage a couple Christmas's ago, spent more time looking over my Sprint than he did looking at the '67 GTO HO convertible in restoration process sitting beside it. He was very surprised to see the factory A/C and commented that "not many Sprints were built, and very very few with air conditioning." He also went on to talk about how added options stole from the horse power etc etc. As already mentioned, the Sprint package was mainly the OHC6 with the 4bbl Rochester carb mounted sideways, a 'split' exhaust manifold that went from 6 (3x2) into 2 into one. I believe the engine was cammed different for the 4bbl as well. The 'package' came with the ride and handling package on all Sprints, the 'Sprint' stripes along the side, most cars recieved the 3 spd manual tranny however, the 4spd and automatic was available as well. The "Sprint" package was available on the Tempest, LeMans and the Firebird sedans, coupes and convertibles. However, I've seen documented cases where the 4bbl OHC engine was installed in station wagons but the Sprint identifiers were not used and they were not considered Sprints. My car came originally a candlelight cream, black interior, black "Sprint" stripe, 3spd manual, 3.23 rear axle, buckets, AM, A/C, and a couple other options. However, when it's done, it will have the tri-power added (era build Man A Fre 3x2bbl intake), head rest recliner seats, AM/FM reverb, NOS OHC rally gauges and a smile on my face while I drive it.Rusty, if you would like to talk more about the Sprint, I'd be happy to get with you via email. Keep the car, enjoy the car, it's not something that many will have or see around. It's not one that alot of people will know what it is, but those of us that do, will really appriciate it.Al SwearingenGTO_AL@yahoo.com1966 LeMans Sprint1967 GTO convertible, HO, M21 (ya, it's rare too lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Al, thanks for a positive post. I hope he keeps it. Or if he needs to sell, a true Pontiac fan gets it. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Yes, Rusty if you come back and read this I agree that this is a car real Pontiac people find interesting and collectable. They do not find it worth $100,000 or anything, but it is an uncommon (to not say rare) example of Pontiac history, and as Al said, even the most experienced Pontiac people will take a special interest when one appears. Not to mention that the 1966 LeMans is one of the sharpest looking mid size cars ever. You can have the looks of a GTO in a very unique and interesting package that John Delorean supposedly envisioned as the beginnings of a more European take on what a performance car could be. Very nice, hope you get some enjoyment from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tinman_34 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 hello three months ago i bought a 1966 pontiac but i dont know if its sprint or not "how can i tell" there is no motor but the vin says its a non v-8 model with a s speed auto on floor i was told it was a sprint car but i see no signes besides finding the vin .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) hello three months ago i bought a 1966 pontiac but i dont know if its sprint or not "how can i tell" there is no motor but the vin says its a non v-8 model with a s speed auto on floor i was told it was a sprint car but i see no signes besides finding the vin ..--------------------------------------------------------------------------- You bought a 1966 Pontiac? What model? If it's a sprint it would come with sports striping, special emblems saying OHC sprint in the middle of the sports stripe on the front fenders. They came stock with a heavy duty three speed FLOOR HURST shifter, Heavy duty suspension, padded dash and the engine with a more aggressive cam and a quadra jet four barrel carburetor with chrome pancake louvered air cleaner at 207HP., split flow exhaust manifolds ( three into one times two ). A four speed was optional. I see no a/t option for a sprint and, in all Tempest wagons the sprint was not available. In the picture that was taken of John DeLorean standing next to the OHC it is of note that the engine is a one barrel 165HP non sprint engine ( you can tell because it has the one barrel carburetor air cleaner. In 1968-69 the engine was enlarged to 250 cu. inches and the horsepower was rated at 215 hp.In 66-67 Knafel Pontiac and Royal Pontiac campaigned Tempest sprints for drag racing. I think the Knafel Pontiac was a national record holder with quarter mile times in the high 14's @ around 92 mph, which would certainly blow the doors off most small V-8's of the day. The valve train was developed by Mac Makellar to be used originally on 389 and 421 V-8 engines, but after GM told Pontiac and Chevy to get out of racing in Jan. 1963, the only engine to come out of Pontiac's advanced engineering was the OHC six. This engine was better suited for a sports car and in 1966 DeLorean had one already made for it. Unfortunately GM corporate didn't like the idea and told him to scrap it and the idea. GM Corporate told Pontiac division to make a Pontiac out of the Camaro instead.The old saying at Pontiac was "if they would just leave us alone". Because of these and many more decisions on Pontiac and Oldsmobile by corporate is the reason they no longer exist today.DonFYI you can see the sprint badge on the front fender in the competition stripe.http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2633/1061/6580530013_large.jpg Edited June 30, 2011 by helfen (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Siegfried Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Al, superb and informative post. I recall the Pontiac overhead cam 6. I was a teenager back then, and the Pontiac 6 was an amazing motor. A genuine standout in a motoring world that was love with V-8's. How many of you all recall the early Firebirds with the overhead cam 6? Absolutely astounding performance, and good handling to boot! Now there was a combination that most muscle cars could not achieve. It was a sad day when GM retired the Pontiac marque. In my opinion Pontiac was one of the leaders in the automotive world up through the 70tys. They built good cars as did Oldsmobile. Sure do hope that Buick is not going to be the next to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now