BURIED BELVEDERE UPDATE!

[MarkV]

http://dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll...arams=Itemnr=1

But, the big question is, should they restore it?

[Peter Gariepy]

article is not accessible with paying for it.

[MarkV]

Here are the pics.! Plus you are a local! Did you hear about this car? Have any stories?

[Guest elmo39]

Try www.missbelvedere.com if possible why not . but in my opinion by what i have seen of it (pics and vidios only )its well past restoring, remember it was buried for 50 years in a hole that despite all there precautions filled with water and 57 was not nown as chryslers best year for rust free cars

[MarkV]

The pics. above, are from after they dipped it in the stuff, plus, I think that it should not be restored, it will ruin the character of the car! (Or what's left!)

[mrpushbutton]

There is nothing left to restore. Its only value is as a curiosity piece because of the time capsule. The metal is badly rusted from the inside out--they coated the exterior with Cosmoline, which preserved the outer surfaces, but the inner body metal was (typical of Mopar products of that time) only catch-and-miss coated with paint while the exterior surfaces were being painted in-process. The rear leaf springs went through the trunk long before it was unearthed and the stamped bracing from the underside of the hood (visible in the photo above) and trunk lid rotted away. It is what it is, and that's all. '57 Mopar products are at best a case of a great style that were cobbled together, a huge step down in build quality for Chrysler. I believe this is the first body where Chrysler designed all of the sheet metal--Briggs did a lot of (body) engineering work for Chrysler prior to this, then Chrysler bought Briggs and it was all up to them. The '57s were the beginning of the dark ages of body building at Chrysler, they really didn't emerge from that until the K-car, and some would say the LH "cab-forward" models.

Let it sit as a freak show--these nothing there to restore.

Any GM or Ford car subjected to the same torture would be equally worthless, to a somewhat smaller degree.

[Matt Harwood]

I don't think its history makes it any more valuable than any other Belvedere, and not worth the cost of a massive restoration effort.

Put it back in the tomb and see what they get in 500 years. <span style="font-style: italic">That</span> would be a curiosity.

[Twitch]

I agree with Mr. Pushbutton. Leave it to the junkyard dog. Why do some people think it is so imperative to spend what certainly would be far more than any worth the car has now, or in the foreseeable future.

The car is not associated with any significant event in history nor was it owned by any famed persona.

I recall seeing one of the Chip Foose car builds of some schmuck's 60s something Corvette. The fiberglass was in such horrible shape it took 440 man hours to bring it back into useable shape. At just $50 an hour that's $22,000! Would have been simplier to use repro parts.

Point is it's fine if there's a commercial enterprise paying for this kind of stuff but to what limit and to what end? We see obscene amounts bid on not real special cars at auctions. But who would approve what would probably end up being $200-300,000 to create nothing more than an oddity?

[mrpushbutton]

One point I failed to make in this morning's post is that the metal is so thin that you or I could make a huge dent in the panels with just our finger, and very little force. It's like aluminum foil now.

[R Walling]

The best thing to do to that car is to suspend it in a large fish bowl of WD 40 and let it rest in peace.

[Barry Wolk]

I say leave it as a shrine to man's poor planning and poor understanding of nature's forces.

[mrpushbutton]

A minister I used to work for (I am a musician when I'm not getting greasy) used to say <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">"man plans and God laughs"</span></span>

[Guest Skyking]

I say put it in the Walter P. Chrysler museum with a plaque stating how dumb we were in the 50's thinking this car would survive in a hole filled with water. Oh, BTW, anyone thinking that a different make of car back then surviving better, I think your wrong. In those conditions, it wouldn't have mattered..........

[ex98thdrill]

Nah, I think the best thing to do is to sell it.

For Sale:

1957 Plymouth Belvedere

Low miles,

No winters,

Never stored outside,

needs interior,

all original.

call for a price.

[Guest rbl2]

It's not a barn find, or a bunker find, .... a hole in the dirt find?

[Mika Jaakkola]

what are those signatures on whitewall?

If I could decide I would put it unrestored to WPC Museum or display at Tulsa.

[Guest Moepar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rbl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not a barn find, or a bunker find, .... a hole in the dirt find? </div></div>A swimming pool/swamp water/septic tank find.....list can go on.

[Dynaflash8]

It's hard for me to realize that I was only 18 years old when I read about this in the newspaper when it took place. It was really a neat experiment I felt back at the time. I'm kind of happy (in more ways than one) that I lived long enough to see the result. It is interesting, too, what this experiment taught us about the forces of nature and the uselessness of concrete as a vault. I think the proper venue is a large number of photos of the car at burial, and the car in its current condition in some sort of a museum. It is not radioactive as were the cars once shown at Silver Springs, FL that had been in some of the first Atomic Bomb blasts in desert in the late 1940s. (I saw that display in 1960). The museum would not necessarily be a car museum, but some sort of natural history or technological museum. It would also be interesting to see if technology has progressed enough since 1957 to do the same thing again and not have the vault fill with water and mud - in other words do it over and over until they discover how to do it right.

[Guest brh]

Ya forgot my favorite "ran when parked"

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya forgot my favorite "ran when parked" </div></div>

Also "Got good glass" and "Never seen rain or salt"!

[Guest ZondaC12]

I'd love to see it done with today's tech, personally. That would be killer. And actually I think it wouldn't really necessitate any REALLY advanced tech. I think a 3 or 4" thick steel shell with a lid that has multiple THICK rubber or silicone seals, and a couple of fittings to evacuate all air inside and replace it with completely dehumidified air, then removing THAT air and creating a complete vacuum, would do the trick. I'd bet money on that fact that I'm still missing something but I think that would be better than concrete! And I think that might have been possible in 1957 too. Probably just a lot more costly.

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZondaC12</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd love to see it done with today's tech, personally. That would be killer. And actually I think it wouldn't really necessitate any REALLY advanced tech. I think a 3 or 4" thick steel shell with a lid that has multiple THICK rubber or silicone seals, and a couple of fittings to evacuate all air inside and replace it with completely dehumidified air, then removing THAT air and creating a complete vacuum, would do the trick. I'd bet money on that fact that I'm still missing something but I think that would be better than concrete! And I think that might have been possible in 1957 too. Probably just a lot more costly. </div></div>

Nah, just vacuum shrink-wrap it and store it above-ground...

[Dandy Dave]

Yeah, I've seen those "car bags" at some of the shows. I bet if you vacume sealed one, it would keep just fine.

Dave!

[Guest ZondaC12]

Well yeah haha But I mean storing it underground. Though I must also add that even though the thing had a standing water level, IF it were actually sealed in one of those bags and the bag was somewhat durable, that would have worked too!

I seem to recall the description of its storage, "wrapped in cosmoline" whatever the heck cosmoline is. I was imagining it wrapped like 1000 times over like you see people shipping engines and chrome bumpers and other auto parts in. What did I see when they unearthed it? Looked like they did the old "throw a tarp over it itll be fine" sheesh.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZondaC12</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well yeah haha But I mean storing it underground. Though I must also add that even though the thing had a standing water level, IF it were actually sealed in one of those bags and the bag was somewhat durable, that would have worked too!

</div></div>

What about a regular garage with sealed doors, Duh!

[Guest elmo39]

Paul I googled cosmoline , it is the trade name for a generic class of rust preventitaves,that are a yellowish, light amber or greenish coloured ointment like mass. it has a slight fluorescence, and has a petroleum like odor and taste, it is the purified residue obtained from the distilation of petroleum oils.apparently it was used a lot in the pacific during the 2nd world war to coat the barrels of the guns to stop them rusting

[Guest ZondaC12]

oh so maybe they smeared that all over it. well sure didnt work!!!!

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Note to self on next new car: The proof is in. Instead of trying to preserve it car in a bag, vault, or cosmoline bath, drive it instead. It will be MUCH easier to restore down the road..

[Dandy Dave]

Yeah, they used to wrap up all sorts of stuff with it durring the Second World War and beyond. I've got a Champion number 1 commercial spark plug kicking around here somewhere wraped up in that stuff. I have had to clean that stuff of of NOS parts from time to time.

It's a pain in the rear.

I'll have to show it to you sometime Zonda. Dave!

[Guest rbl2]

About 40 years ago I bought a 98 Mauser that was coated with cosmoline. I cleaned the outside, the bolt, the bore, and whatever else needed to be cleaned to make it functional. WOW! 40 years later I still remember it was a chore.

The rifle worked like a charm. Hardly any kick at all. Then I disassembled the barrel from the stock and cleaned the cosmoline out of there. Kicked like a mule.

It still looked good though.

[Guest elmo39]

Bill What did you use your 98 for ?(hunting ) about 43 years ago i bought my first rifle , it was a 2nd world war british .303 i still use it. the last 15-20 years i always drove my 54 Diplomat on hunting trips ,some times bringing (luck permitting )the results home in the trunk, these were regular trips mostly weekly (depending on the weather)trips . Unlike the US we dont have hunting seasons and can hunt all year ,no liscence is required only a permit at no cost. after all these years the only thing seeming to wear out is me, the rifle and car still work fine . the hills are not any higher but it now seems a lot further from the bottom to the top

[jaxops]

Another version is:

"Mann denkt und Gott lacht!" (Man thinks, and God laughs)

[Twitch]

Cosmoline is used by armouries to coat the barrel and moving parts of firearms for storage or shipment. Smearing it on the outside of the body and not every equal inch of the inside is just useless as rust will begin where there is least resistnce.

[Guest rbl2]

Elmo,

I don't recall using that 98 for hunting but I may have. Once it started kicking like a pack mule I no longer liked it and found myself anticipating that kick. That anticipation threw my aim off. I may have hunted with it but I don't remember. I eventually sold it. I sure wish I had it back.

Most of the weapons I have now are military or resemble military weapons. Two are reproduction Confederate army rifles, an 1841 Mississippi and an 1862 Cook and Brother, both .58 cal., and one a reproduction Confederate revolver, a Spiller and Burrs in .36 cal. I have hunted deer with the rifles. I'd much rather hunt with them that any modern rifle made. I can consistently shoot a 3" circle at 100 yards with both.

Of all the modern weapons I have I most prefer my SKS. I can shoot a 1" circle at 100 yards.

Like you, the woods are getting further away and the hills steeper and higher as I get older. Once upon a time I didn't think anything of going hunting alone. Those days are behind me now. Killing a squirrel is one thing but dropping a deer and carrying it by myself is something I can no longer do.

I envy your being able to hunt year round. Where are you located, if I may ask.

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1948Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll...arams=Itemnr=1

But, the big question is, should they restore it? </div></div>

They had the right idea in 1957, PLEASE cover it over again so this story can have an ending.

[Guest elmo39]

Bill

i live in New Zealand

[Guest AlK]

I was at the meet where this car was unearthed. While it is true that no one famous owned it, and no great universal event involved it, I have to dis-agree about junking it outright. I also cannot agree that it should be restored. One of the possible suggestions that was brought up at the meet was to donate it to the City of Tulsa and have them seal it in a clear container and put it in the museum. It is after all significantly important to the City of Tulsa.