Orphan Car Defined

[R W Burgess]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Those attract chicks (<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #3366FF">the real smart ones</span></span>) faster...........</div></div>

Hey that cuts out my kind of girls, the blonds!

Wayne

[West Peterson]

You better duck, Wayne!

[Steve Braverman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrsq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It just is not practicle to drive an older car with the stock running gear for any distance.</div></div>

You know, I really have a problem with this statement, as I'm sure most everyone here does. I drive a Franklin. I believe that it qualifies as an orphan in every sense of the word. I also drive it long distances. I truly believe that any car in good mechanical condition is probably more reliable than a cobbled together abomination of parts like the Nash described above. I really don't like to throw stones, but mrsq really does not get what AACA is all about with statements like this.

Personally, I don't like street rods. I do however, appreciate good workmanship. I feel that what is gained by building a street rod is not reliability, but modern comfort (air, ps, pb, etc.) and maybe performance. Yes, my Franklins require more frequent maintenance in the form of valve adjustments and points replacement than they would if they had Chevy engines in them, but that is really not a practicality issue for me. The last time I needed points for a Franklin, Pep Boys had them on the shelf.

My current project, my Franklin Olympic, is a hybrid from two orphan manufacturers, the other being REO. I plan to go through every aspect of this car, and when I am done I will have a car as good, if not better than new. Then I plan on driving it far distances, very far distances.

[R W Burgess]

Steve, you're not alone in this matter. After all, this is an Antique Car Club, meaning stock in pretty much every way.

We just have to press harder in "re-educating" those that have gone "off-the-road" so to speak.

Wayne

[JFranklin]

Maybe there needs to be a class of cars called weaned autos, that's when the parent Co. no longer supports them! Just kidding. This is an interesting thread as I own a 1922 Nash, 2 1924 Willys Knights, a 1948 Plymouth, and a 192? Huffman truck.

[MCHinson]

I noticed mrsq's comment on the 22nd, but was having too much fun picking on Steve and West to get around to commenting on that offensive comment then. I was trying to just write it off as a rookie mistake of not knowing your audience, and am amazed that nobody mentioned it for so long.

mrsq, on this forum, we are dedicated to restoration and preservation of ORIGINAL cars as they left the factory. You might want to check out the rest of this website a bit to find out what this club is all about. AACA is not the club for Streetrods. We are a nice group, but we tend to get riled up when people start talking about modifying cars.

[Steve Braverman]

I was at the Franklin Trek and saw the car from Oregon. Every year we give out a long distance award, usually to somebody from NY, MA, or ME. It was great to see this car come so far. We do have some members from Minnesota that have also driven to NY for the Trek. Cross-country runs in Franklins do occur on a regular basis.

[West Peterson]

I know a guy from Georgia who drove his 1930 Packard 10,000 miles through 48 states in 33 days. This was back in 1995. He claims that he knows how to use a screw driver, but a pliers is probably above his capabilities. For most of the trip there was no one with a tow vehicle following him, and there was no one with any more mechanical capabilities riding with him. Plus, at that time he had no cell phone.

I took this picture in Silverton (narrow guage train in background) as I rode with him on the Colorado Grand, a 1,000-mile tour around and through the mountains in 2003. Two weeks previous to this, he drove on different 1,000-mile tour through Colorado.

[Jay Wolf]

After thinking it over a Orphan must be stock.

A car with a SB Chevy would be a step child to Chevy not and Orphan.

I think a local shows it is important to keep modified vehicles out of the same class as stock/original vehicles.

Especially when Orphans are concerned and parts availability is night and day difference.

[Jon37]

Speaking as someone intensely involved with our Baltimore-Washington "Orphan Car Tour" for 17 years, [ http://www.orphancartour.org/ ] I have a certain interest in the subject of what constitutes an "orphan car".

For our purposes we define an Orphan as any vehicle [car or truck] manufactured by a company or company division which is no longer engaged in the manufacture of vehicles. (We seem to slightly tweak this, each year!] In fact, we have a "big tent" outlook and don't make a big deal about it if we get a Corvair, Imperial, Zephyr or LaSalle (they somewhat stretch the "defunct division" criterion a wee bit). And we don't look under the hood to see if that '35 Hupp has a Chevy engine. In fact, one year we allowed a '55 Pontiac because its owner dutifully installed Kaiser hubcaps. He certainly got an ''R'' for resourcefulness.

We DO want to promote the driving enjoyment of cars that are no longer manufactured, and we want the public to see these vehicles on the road and to learn the extent of our great automotive heritage. But Rule Number One is to encourage camaraderie, good will and the fun of old cars. And not to be a stinker about a definition.

[Peter Gariepy]

Jon37,

I like your definition:

"...automobiles at least 25 years old, which were produced either by now-defunct manufacturers, or by the discontinued divisions of still existing companies."

[novaman]

[qutoe]"...automobiles at least 25 years old, which were produced either by now-defunct manufacturers, or by the discontinued divisions of still existing companies."

I agree. That it is the best worded definition I've heard, although I don't think the 25 year stipulation is needed. Personally when Olds, and Plymouth divsions closed <span style="font-weight: bold"> all </span> Olds and Plymouth became orphans, just not antique vehicles until the 25 years.

The guys claiming that their Corvairs are "orphan cars" personally is silly. That'd make my parent's '76 Dodge Aspen, 1980 Ponitac Bonneville,'73 Dodge Dart, '84 and '86 Chevrolet Cavilers, and the several 1990's Chevrolet Luminas that they use to own, all orphan cars. If i understood correctly, the Scion "square kiddie looking" SUV (forgot the model name) will be an orphan under thier defination as of the end of the model year as it will be redigned and called something else.

[mrpushbutton]

I just talked to the queen bee. The Corvair ain't on the list!

Mr. Pushbutton

OCCA puppet-president

[novaman]

If we're talking orphan techology, 99% of all antique cars could be considered orphans as they use those wierd things called carbs. And if your saying the Corvair is orhan techonlogy because of the rear engine / rear wheel drive, don't forget about the Pontiac Fiero (rear engine/ rear wheel drive). Oh, what about the Corvettes and '57 Chevys with the mechaincal fuel injection? Guess they'd be included too.

I believe the majority of people associate "orphan car" with a vehicle that was built from a out of business manufacturer or something close to that.

[DennyZ]

So, since Hudson was merged into American Motors which later merged into Chrysler, by that definition, Hudsons would NOT be orphans either!

[Guest leadsled1953]

my DeSoto is not an orphan!it just had a bad parent company[ask Plymouth ]

[Guest c.johnson]

Lighter side: Oakland was murdered by it's younger sibling; Pontiac!!

[mrpushbutton]

American Motors did not merge with Chrysler, they were purchased by Chrysler outright. Never call a purchase a merger--especailly a "merger of equals"

[Guest aussie610]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: novaman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Kaiser merged with Fraiser to form Kaiser-Fraiser then became part of Willys and ended up as Kaiser Jeep.</div></div>

There never was a Kaiser or Frazer company to merge. They were all products of Graham Paige Motors.

[Guest imported_Packards1]

I agree, the Queen Bee is the final authority. I can't wait for the new club hats to wear at Hershey.

[huptoy]

There is a antique car parade in Hamalton OH (Just north of Cincinnati) Sat. July 26th 2008. They restrict cars to origional condition. You can add seat belts and turn signals but the car must not be modified. The following is their description of acceptable: All American and foreign vehicles 1896 - 1983 in restored or original condition are eligible. No modified cars, street rods or after market wheels. Vehicles must be clean and free of advertising. To encourage prewar II cars to participate, the $20.00 registration fee is waived. If you go to one of the following web pages you will see some interesting cars.

http://www.countrycruiser.com/2007/hcp/index.htm

Photos of parade in the early 1960's

[Rusty_OToole]

My DeSoto is still alive but its parent, the DeSoto division is dead. Its grandparent, the Chrysler corporation is still alive.

However it is over 18 years old.I don't think you stop being an orphan at 19.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huptoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a antique car parade in Hamalton OH (Just north of Cincinnati) Sat. July 26th 2008. They restrict cars to origional condition. You can add seat belts and turn signals but the car must not be modified. The following is their description of acceptable: All American and foreign vehicles 1896 - 1983 in restored or original condition are eligible. No modified cars, street rods or after market wheels. Vehicles must be clean and free of advertising. <span style="font-weight: bold">To encourage prewar II cars to participate, the $20.00 registration fee is waived.</span> If you go to one of the following web pages you will see some interesting cars.

http://www.countrycruiser.com/2007/hcp/index.htm

Photos of parade in the early 1960's

</div></div>

I'm not sure why you chose this tread to post this, but this is cool parade!

It passes within a mile of my house. I watch it every year I'm here, but my car was never in it. It <span style="text-decoration: underline">does</span> turn out the pre-war stuff!

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My DeSoto is still alive but its parent, the DeSoto division is dead. Its grandparent, the Chrysler corporation is still alive</div></div>Only in America. When I was deployed to the middle east 6 years ago, the Army flew us into Incirlik Air Force Base in Adana, Turkey on a commerical plane. From there we caught a cargo plane to take us downrange. While I was at Incirlik, the Turks were driving fairly modern Desoto trucks. One of which was a 10-wheeler concrete truck. These trucks had a big Chrysler star in the center of the grill.

I didn't have the opportunity to snap a picture of the Desoto trucks, but they are still out there.

[Guest elmo39]

I have two DeSoto's one is 67 years old the other is 54.

[Guest elmo39]

The turkish DeSoto's have nothing to do with the Chrysler corp .DeSoto's were assembled there by chrysler in the early days but after chrysler let the brand go the turks carried on using the name for there trucks , the same as WP did when he first bought out the DeSoto. as there had previously been a desoto made in Auburn Ind in 1913, as for the chrysler star i assume you mean the penstar , i have a mitsubishi and it has a penstar on the grill .

[mrpushbutton]

Chrysler did not buy out the DeSoto name, it was "unowned" in 1928 despite the fact that one of the thousands of start-up auto assembles used it in 1913. Chrysler started (its)DeSoto and Plymouth brands in 1928, now both demi-orphans, and bought Dodge, the move that really built his company.

[Guest Charlie123]

Not so the Graham Paige is prewar and an orphan, also the prewar Grahams

[john2dameron]

They stopped making Plymouths? When did that happen?

The original statement by Daimler Chrysler was that 2001 would be the last model year for Plymouth. Since then we've lost Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Mercury. Now Chrysler has removed the Dodge name from pickup trucks and Vipers. I look for the Dodge brand to disappear in 2 to 3 years. If you recall, Prowlers were introduced as a Plymouth model but then became Chryslers before Plymouth was killed off.

[Guest Magoo]

The definition of orphan will always be highly elastic. For one thing, the definition of an automotive brand is highly elastic itself

From what I have witnessed, the orphan term as applied to automobiles originated in the car dealer and service community. When a brand or marque went out of business, or a nameplate was no longer supported by its manufacturer or distributor, it was said to be an orphan.

An orphan could be an entire manufacturer or brand like Packard or Auburn, or a division of an automaker like DeSoto. I have also seen the orphan term applied to models within a division, like Corvair, and to brands that were simply discontinued in America, like Vauxhall and Hillman.

At the Jack Miller Orphan Car Show in Ypsilanti this weekend (PLUG!) Pontiacs and Mercurys are allowed for the first time. The customary waiting period was waived when it became evident that these brands were not coming back. Personally, I think orphan car events and organizations should strive to be inclusive and follow the desires of their attendees. Only good sense.

The Jack Miller Orphan Car Show in Ypsilanti, MI is a great show. I invite all to come out on Sunday. I promise you will enjoy it.

Preview:

http://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/2013/09/19/preview-2013-ypsilanti-orphan-car-show/

[misterc9]

My grandfather got a deal on a new Durant after they went out of business. No warrantee,no service,no parts,no resale value. That's an orphan!