JV Puleo

I think it largely depends on where you live... I do not have either a truck or a trailer and I've no particular interest in "touring" in a group and there are no local car shows I'd bother to go to. My car is for my own amusement. Where I live I've no problem driving it on the public roads as long as I avoid rush hour on the main roads. At some point I plan to go on one of my "adventures"...(I've done this before) where I set a destination quite some distance away and plot a course that will take me via secondary roads for two or three days or maybe even much longer. The idea is to get there and back by myself. This probably puts me on the eccentric end of an eccentric hobby.

The car is great but I just noticed the 1919 RI license plate. This would have been at least the third form of plate RI had but they were always black and white up until some "artistic" politicians decided tourism would be enhanced if they adopted a more "upbeat " license plate back in the 70s. Notice the simple 4-digit number. All the early numbers are still in use and considered very desirable by people with more time and money than they can make good use of...or are "connected". We will never have YOM plates here, at least for early cars, because of that. I don't think they started putting letters on the plates until the 50s...at the time you could request your initials. My mom had hers for a long time but my father had to settle for his first and middle initial (JV) because all the "JP"s were already used.

I like your screw jack. I have about six of those in different sizes. I feel a lot safer using them than I do with hydraulic bottle jacks.

In a nutshell...the PI was, for the most part, a late Ghost chassis with a new OHV engine. The PII was an entirely redesigned car. Coachwork was largely interchangeable between the Ghost and the PI. In fact, it wasn't unusual for an owner who had a body that they especially liked to have it mounted on a new chassis. But, we're talking about the post-WWI cars. The Ghost was in production from 1908 to 1925 so there were many incremental changes over those years and, again, it wasn't unusual for an owner to send a car back to the factory to have it updated. Ghost's started out with a 4-speed transmission with overdrive on 4th, then went to a 3-speed and then back to 4 but without the overdrive. RR called the overdrive the "sprinting" gear. It was dropped because so many chauffeurs would get the car into 4th and leave it there (remembering that many of the early chauffeurs were former coachmen who knew nearly as little about the car as the owner did). Driven slowly in overdrive there was some noise and since RR prided itself on how quiet their cars were they removed the gear in order to protect their reputation for silent running. The PI is an OHV six. The Ghost has a side valve engine with "jugs" rather than a detachable head. The engine is the only major difference between them.

The best photos taken before about 1930 are better than 99% of modern photos. Things like cell phone photos don't hold a candle to them and the old Kodak Instamatic pictures are a joke. It takes a very good camera with extremely good lenses (which usually cost much more than the camera) for digital photos to equal a good glass plate negative. I'll add that the differences are not visible on a computer screen which is reducing all photos, whether high res digital or continuous tone, to something like 72 dots per inch which is the maximum for most computer screens. The minimum size we use for publishing is 300 DPI.

You are quite right...glass plate photos were probably the best ever taken but it has as least as much to do with the ratio of the size of the lens to the plate as it does with being printed on glass. That photo was probably taken with a 2" or bigger lens at a very slow (by modern standards) shutter speed. The lady would have had to absolutely stand still while the exposure was being made. This is why you don't see "stop action" photos on glass... It's very common when looking at Civil War period photos to be able to identify the buttons on a uniform by enlarging them...

Very few brass cars still have their belly pans although virtually all of them did originally. I once had a 1910 REO that had one. It was attached with spring loaded "eyes" that could be pulled down and turned to line up with a slot making it quite easy to take off but I confess I never put it back on once I took it off.

I'd be inclined to broach the hub but only to the depth of the original key...then make custom keys to fit, either with a step so they fit both the half shaft and the hub or mill the keyway in the half shaft wider. I've seen "repair" keys advertised for this application. I don't think widening the key way would post a strength problem while making it deeper might. It is a tapered hole? If so, I'd love to see how you solve the problem of holding it while broaching. I've puzzled over broaching a tapered hole several times. I've never done it because I haven't had to but the time will come when it's necessary.

A good example would be the Brewster "skeleton trim" below the head liner. Years ago I was told that those were originally just the frame to hold the headliner but they were so well made and fitted that someone decided to finish them and stretch the headliner material above them so that they showed. I don't believe anyone else did that. To fit those slightly bowed pieces so perfectly means they must have had exceptionally skilled woodworkers. My own PI, which had spent a good 30 years in a barn, had doors that closed like a bank vault.

I'll add to what Ed has said by saying that all it takes is extreme attention to detail and a very fine eye for extremely high quality workmanship in its mechanical aspects. The quality of EVERY mechanical part in a Ghost or PI is exceptional. What always surprises me is that very few seem to be able to tell the difference between a part that works, as in most American cars, and a truly exceptional one. I can't really comment on the PII or III...I've only worked on two PIIs and one PIII. I will say that the quality of a Brewster body – as opposed to the styling – is unsurpassed. I've never seen an English body that came up to their standards but, again, this is something that is lost on 98% of the owners.

I have one of those and have often wondered what it went with...

Excellent! I think that is the best solution possible and I agree that "value" has a much broader meaning than dollars. My own restoration project will ultimately cost more just in materials & tools than the finished car will be worth and that doesn't include a penny for the countless hours I've spent and will spend on it. But, I never intended to make money with it. It's the challenge that counts with me and the ongoing mental and physical activity that let me feel 30 years younger than I really am.

I was too along with a colleague though not car related. We were in full agreement that if what they wanted was idiotic drama, yelling, swearing and childish behavior, they had come to the wrong place.

Regarding youtube...I've looked for videos on a few occasions. In about 80% of the cases it's clear that the person making the video isn't equipped for the job and doesn't really know how it should be done. It's a "tractor mechanic's" (to use Ed's term) playground. I don't bother with TV at all...I don't own one. I did try watching a couple of these car shows in a hotel room once. In less than 5 minutes I switched off they were so stupid.

As mentioned above, this was the most common, conventional method of mounting a radiator. When I did it on a 1910 REO I used shock absorber bushings. I made concave washers to go above and below them and used a long brass stud threaded and soldered into the lower tank with a spring (I may have used short valve springs), also with fitted washers, under the front cross member. You don't tighten them too much, just enough to slightly compress the spring. They need a split pin in the stud and preferably a castelated nut. The idea is to allow chassis to flex (which all early cars chassis do) without putting added stress on the radiator. Many had a thick reinforcement inside the bottom tank that the stud screwed into. A better way to mount them was a spring loaded flange firmly attached to the side of the radiator shell. This was a lot more expensive to make and is most commonly seen on trucks.

The problem with discussing this topic is that everyone approaches it from their own unique perspective. As an example...I think I qualify as a "boomer" (born in 1951) and have absolutely no interest in any post war cars much less the later ones. People are free to pursue their interests whatever they are but I get tired being told I should embrace eras I lived through and would rather forget. I feel no nostalgia for the 50s, 60s or 70s. I don't expect 99% of car enthusiasts to share my interests either. I should add that I'm willing to engage, and help, anyone who shares my interests, regardless of age or background. Age has no significance to me...interest does. As to the original subject of this thread...this article is another example of pure "fluff". It's riddled with holes and specious reasoning. As said earlier, there are so many more later post war cars than their are earlier ones that it's no wonder they change hands more frequently. I'll add that I doubt Haggerty has access to data on the MANY private transactions that take place. I've never bought a car at auction...nor am I likely to and I imagine that is true for many of the members here. Placing any credence in these ill informed opinion pieces is a waste of time.

The obsolete threads shouldn't be a problem, at least for anyone with a screw cutting lathe. Taps are usually available as well...try Victor Machine in New York. I do have reservations about switching the brake rods though. It's something I've done myself but I wonder if it made a difference and I'd be skeptical of second guessing the original designers, especially with a well made and thought out expensive car.

I apologize for how brutal this is going to sound but in today's market I think you would have a hard time giving it away. I say that because I've just finished trying to clear the estate of my late uncle where we had piles of parts (mostly for model A's). We couldn't sell them even at a give-away price and, in fact, we were forced to abandon nearly all of them. I don't know what he new owner of the property did but most likely they all went for scrap. At the moment the period isn't popular, it was a medium to low priced car to begin with and it needs just about everything. The best bet would be someone with a similar car who wanted the parts you've collected but even then it's not likely you will find someone locally and transport from Montana to just about anywhere is likely to equal the value of what you have. I have a car in similar condition...all apart and I have much more in it than you do but I realize that unless I get it back together it's virtually worthless as it.

While Ford ultimately won his Selden Patent dispute it had no real effect on the advancement of the automobile for the simple reason that he only won the case about a year before the patent ran out. All he achieved was not having to pay patent royalties himself. It was, as usual, a self-serving move on his part...not the big contribution to the development of the automobile that it is usually described as. Practically everything published about HF during his lifetime was laudatory because he was a serial abuser of the legal system. If you criticized him, or even raised doubts about some of his actions, he'd sue. He had the money to buy the best lawyers and most, if not all of those he threatened, did not. He might well lose a case but he'd bankrupt his opponent in the process. It didn't work in the suit that was engendered by his antisemetic campaign in the Dearborn Independent. In that case he tried to buy the jury. When that was discovered a miss-trial was declared. He got away with it. I've never seen any reference to his being charged with jury tampering, something that would have gotten nearly anyone else a prison sentence. The technical section of the Licensed Automobile Manufactures (the Seldon Patent agency) became the SAE so I think it is reasonable to say that they made at least as great a contribution to the development of the automobile as Ford did.

I have a pile of grinding wheels...came with one of the two grinders I have...the one I've never assembled. I'll send you some. I'll never use then all.

Very good! They are one of those tools you rarely need but when you do there is nothing that will do the job anywhere near as well. Just being able to get a ground surface on tricky parts will be a revelation.

My mother told me that when I was very little I recognized cars by who I knew that owned one. I must have been 5 or 6 at the time (this would have been in the 50s) but I'd blurt out "there goes Uncle Bob's car" or "Uncle George's car". My parents, who probably couldn't do the same since they hardly ever noticed cars, were surprised by that but probably goes to an interest that developed entirely on it's own. The little great-nephew I gave some books to has, several times, said he likes my "old" truck (a 1989 Blazer) which is what spurred me to do what I can to encourage his interest. He certainly didn't get it from his parents, neither of whom are the slightest bit interested.

I think the most interesting part of this thread is that it appears that the majority of the participants had fathers that regarded their cars as appliances. What does this say about the endless din of "getting younger people interested"? Practically no one here comes from an old car collecting background. My own feeling is that, like everything else, collecting interests change with time and that we have absolutely no way of predicting exactly what they will be down the road. I just gave my great-nephew (he's about 10 now) four books I found I had duplicates of. All are on pre-war, mostly brass era cars. I've no idea if they will strike a cord with him now or in the future but I would not be surprised if it did.

No influence at all. My father had absolutely no interest in cars beyond getting to work and back. He tended to buy big, used luxury cars because, as he reasoned, you got a lot more for your money and, since he didn't drive any more than he had to, the cost of gas was irrelevant. His parents never had a car so he did not grow up around them. He did have some memories though and, since he was born in 1916 these often were of late 20s cars. I'd never seen the "headlight in the fender" but he knew it was Pierce Arrow... I have to give him credit though. He never made any effort to stop me in my pursuit of old cars, old books and old guns & swords even though he thought it was a stupid waste of time and money.

That is brilliant!