Olds 442 Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I received my senior at Hershey for my Model T this past weekend and had a great time.One thing that I don't agree with is the point spread for getting the awards. There were other cars in my class that were going for a senior that I feel sure scored the minimum number of 375 or more, but weren't within 10 points of my car.I feel that the point spread for awards will discourage some owners of very high quality cars to want to continue to show their cars at national meets. I would like to hear the thoughts of others on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 This is a topic that has been discussed before, you might as well knock your head against a wall than to try to get this point across to the powers that be.This is one of the "LAWS" that I have disagreed with for years!The sad thing is if the same vehicles would show up at another AACA National (and this goes for any AACA National not picking on Hershey) it could senior only because there didn;t happen to be a higher point car there. If you set the score at 375 for a Senior then it should be 375 regardless. They say your not competing against other vehicles, but in fact you are.Here goes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Keith, the judging committee is constantly looking at making the system better. Case in point was the documentation on the radial tire deal involving Rivieras. The committee also just added many new classes at the meeting in Hershey, in the interest of fairness. This is a pretty hard working group of people. If members want change, they need to make a intelligent and well thought out case and send it to our Vice-President of Class Judging. The "powers to be" got there by giving of themselves while attending meets all over the country. They are not reimbursed. Their jobs are not ceremonial, they have vital responsibilities to the club. Many of them have served in a variety of capacities for the benefit of all of us. Every club has their own judging system and not all owners agree with the procedures. We at least have a large committee representing divergent interests in the AACA judging system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Steve, do you agree with the point I was making? If so, maybe you can present it to "the powers to be" and help to make a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Just a question to think about, if your car scored so high, what would it take others to get that extra 10 or 15 points? Usually not much, just attention to detail. If you can do it, I am sure others can too! I have shown many vehicles in AACA over 19 years and knew going in what the system was. The membership must ask for change if that is what they want, not me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 I agree that everyone can go into the meet as being equal and what makes a difference is the attention to detail.I work very hard on detailing my cars for show and know that others do the same. That still doesn't address the fact that when you have a car in a class at the 400 point level, or close to it,the car that scores 375-385 points will not get the award {senior}, even though they were above the minimum number for the award.With the point spread in play you are in competion with the other cars as well as the point system. I understand when you say that change needs to come from the members and not from you but you are a member and I would like to hear your opinion as well as the opinion of anyone else on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Personally I like the point spread qualifier even though it has cost us a first place trophy on several occasions. If every car scoring 350 or above would win the first what would be the incentive to do more than the minimum work to meet the 350 mark? Shouldn't cars that have been restored to a higher than 350 point condition be rewarded? Shouldn't those cars serve as the benchmark toward which others strive? I think the AACA judging system does a pretty good job of not rewarding "over restoration". Truth is, the owner of the car which does not get the first likely knows where his weaknesses are. Let's not devalue the First Place Award just so more members can get awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 my problem with the system is not the point spread but the variables that it causes - lets say you take your car to Hershey and receive a 385, well within Senior point spread but a nicer car is there and gets 397, your out of the Senior running. However, lets say at one of the Spring AACA National meets it rains and it's a low turnout and the high point car is 375, it gets a Senior and the 10 point nicer car that showed at another AACA National gets nothing - so you have a 375 point car as a Senior and yet the nicer 385 point car is left out. That in my opinion is where the problem is with the point spread method. Overall people in this hobby arn't going to strive for the 375, they want their cars as nice as possible, we always strive to get the highest points we can. I just think for overall consistency across the country and at all AACA National meets exact cutoff points would be the way to go. 375 not enough? Then raise the bar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Keith I can agree with you 100%.That is one of the problems that can happen with the 10 point rule. Thanks for your posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Dear Restorer32,I agree with your points 110%.It is my opinion that if you have done your homework on your restoration in regard to quality and authenticity you should feel confident draggin it to the BIG show(Hershey) and win the award you expect.If in fact your car is QUESTIONABLE you can drag it all over the country to smaller AACA shows and hope for inclimate weather the day of the show.diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 it's sad that you could even consider a car that the AACA says can be a senior car at 375 questionable(not many people are any pickier than me, but I haven't reached the snob level yet thank goodness), again your reasoning still doesn't deal with the inconsistancies that the 10 point spread makes. And again maybe if the 375 isn't what it takes anymore then it should be bumped, but then I guess we will have to bump the GN and SR GN scores also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Dear MythreeBuicks,SNOBB,I do not even know how to spell it.All i know is how many nights i spent making my car as right as i could before showing it at Hershey.YES it was over restored,aren't they all.Build it as per the Buick club or as in my case the Ford V-8 club and you will have NO problem going DIRECTLY to the top of the AACA system.SWEAT the small stuff and you will appreciate the hardware that much more.diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I could tell you tales of customers of ours who have wanted us to do just enough to win the trophy, nothing more. I swear, some of them would be just as proud if they could just steal the trophy! One guy with an expensive Packard convertible saw nothing wrong with asking us to put a few snaps in a piece of top material, fold it neatly inside a plastic bag, and pretend it was the top boot so he could display it with the car. Same guy had Maaco paint a one of a kind 1919 vehicle and was then upset when he received no award at Hershey. I wonder if the fact that the trunk lid was painted shut caused the judges to deduct any points? Keep the point spread. Too many things in this country have already been tailored to the lowest common denominator. Remind me sometime to tell you about the local "restorer" who uses chrome tape (chrome on a roll)including on the grill shell of a 1931 Rolls. In reality there are very few 400 point cars out there. I think I've seen 3 or so in my 53 times judging. I don't bowl but what you're asking is to consider a 275 game as being as perfect as a 300 game. It ain't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 I am not asking to ease the rules to make it easeier for a less worthy car to receive the award. If the standard is 375 then that is what it should be, NOT 389 when you have another car that gets a 399! As for comparing this to bowling, a 300 game is a 300 game. No addition requirments needed, just as a 375 point score should be all that is needed for an AACA SENIOR!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 as what Olds 442 said, but I don't have a problem raising the bar to make a higher score a Senior, I just have a problem with the variables the 10 point spread makes out there. It is becoming obvious out there that 375 is not high enough to senior, then make it 385 or whatever figure would better fit the requeirements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 DITTO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 My <span style="font-weight: bold">PERSONAL</span> opinion is that both sides have validity and I believe it strongly! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Actually, I do not have a strong opinion either way. However, this has never been brought up at a roundtable that I attended. I have never heard a complaint at the Annual Meeting and I have not seen an letters or other communication on this since I arrived here. I stress that this is your club and if enough members want change, I am sure the committees and boards will facilitate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I think the system works well as it is. If I were going to make any changes it would be to make the judging even tougher, though I realize that the expertise needed to do so on such a large scale probably isn't available. As an aside, I have a friend who showed a 1978 RR Corniche Convertible with 4800 original miles in the Prestige Vehicle class at Hershey. This car appears virtually as new. He took Second...obviously a victim of the point spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I to think the system works fine just the way it is. The cream comes to the top as they say. The point spread has gotten me a few times however it made me work harder by correcting a few minor issues and the award was received the next outing. If the point spread is eliminated then maybe the minimums should be bumped up. 1st junior 385 points / Senior 390 points / Grand National 395 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Ron ~ I am hanging this on to your post because it was last, but in reality it responds to many posts on this thread.The following theory dates back to 1978, when I was being prepared to take over as AACA Judges Training Director. I was told that "If we set the awards so that ANYONE receiving a score of 365 [that was the point lower limit for both Jr. & Sr. at that time] then there will be no incentive to restore above that level." That point has already been made by Restorer and someone else. It makes as much sense now as it did then.I served 4 years as Training director and 2 as VP of Class judging, so I have had a little experience within the system. I also judged for 34 years before retiring in 2002. With that background, I offer the following observation.I never heard anyone who WON their JR., Sr., Grand National 1st or Grand National Senior complain about the system. It is those who cannot or will not restore to the highest level who are the loudest complainers about the system as it now exists. I personally have lost out on several occasions to the point spread. That's life. I knew the rules going in and chose to play. If I had not liked the rules I should have gone elsewhere to play.But I guess in today's world of "Everyone must be made to feel good" the system should be tailored to that goal and not to true quality of restoration.hvsPS: Our Executive Director, Steve M, is a take charge guy who will jump in to help out any member in any way he can. But asking him to intervene in this matter is way out of line. The judging system is the sole responsibility of the VP Class Judging and the Judging Committee, with the overall responsibility borne by the AACA Board of Directors. Steve, as the paid Executive Director of the Club, is not in a position to foster the change some of you want. Write to the VP Class Judging or your favorite National Director.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Ron, with those levels I know of a good number of cars that would not have gotten thier first Jr. Also after having been to the Grand National in New Bern the other year, 395 would only tick people off. There were several 400 point cars there and people were fuming becasue they didn't get thier award. I think Howard hit the nail on the head with the loudest complainers of the system being those who didn't get the award. And also wanting it to be the "we need to make everyone feel good" system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 I would like to start by saying that I have done very well at the national meets I have been at.My 442 was restored 13 years ago and I was able to receive my first Junior at the first show it was entered[ Carlisle 2003] and then received my Senior at Hershey[2003] .I then did a frame off on my T last winter[7 months] and received my Junior in Hagerstown[2004].I was at Hershey and received my senior with the T.I started this thread because in Hagerstown and at Hershey, there were cars in my class that didn't get the awards they were seeking but in my opinion did meet the minimum number of points for the awards. They were NICE cars!That is why I made the suggestion about the point spread. As far as asking Steve M. for his opinion,why not? He is afterall a member,same as I am, and after speaking with him several times, I felt that he would be a good person to approach.I guess I should also add that my 442 received a Grand National second at Buffalo. There were 4 cars that took first in my class.Of course I was dissapointed but the 4 that did win deserved it. I will try again. No sour grapes here!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Dear Howard,You said it ALL.Bottom line is,put your time in,it will be OBVIOUS and you will be rewarded.diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Well, I will continue to complain loudly about the point spread - and I have been lucky and never had it bite me. If we want better cars then again, raise the points, it STILL allows to many variables - plus it would be a whole lot more simple to have a cutoff, if you make it fine, if not fine. It is still not right that the 389 car that went up agaist the 400 car does't make the cut, but the 375 car slips through making the cut at another show - you fellows can't honestly say that that is right, correct, or makes any sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 novaman, the numbers I posted were high (on purpose) and just an example. Maybe lower them each by 5? Its tough work as we all know to get the awards but very rewarding when accomplished. I received a repeat senior grand national award this year with a car that's been off the AACA circuit (and driven) 3 1/2 years and with a 12 year old paint job. The system works as is, as you well know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Sorry Kieth, but until we make the minimum for a first 400 points there will be those who will cut corners and expect to win with lesser vehicles. We give 10 points leeway. Should it be 12, or 15, or 25, or the whole 35 down to 365 [or 25 down to 375 in the case of Seniors]? Maybe we could just judge our own cars at home and then put the award we think we should get on the registration. Then if we show up we get the trophy. Everybody should be happy then shouldn't they?Sort of "Owners Choice Judging." WOW, I like that idea, but I would have to build a bigger trophy case. That's what it's all about isn't it? $10 trophies.?Complain all you want. It is a free country. Just realize that there is damage to be done to the judging system by cheapening the awards.Do it right and you still have 10 points to give away if a 400 point car shows up.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 you arn't hearing me or are to blinded by tradition, I'm not saying make it easier, I'm saying make in uniform - the way it is now lesser cars are getting Seniors - Howard, you said 12 15.... it shouldn't be within a certain range, set the standards high - period - I certainly don't want to make it easy to senior just consistant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J.Heizmann Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Hi, Keith..."...make it consistent." ?I have been to 17 National and AGNM Meets. The only way I see to make it consistent, if I read you correctly, is, have the same judges at every meet. This, of course, is impossible, as judging is a hobby unto itself with in the AACA. (Not to mention, hoping the same judges are in the same mood at every meet.)In my case, I have owned the 1972 Triumph TR-6 since new. A friend suggested in 1996 that I enter it. Well, in 1998, was the first year I did at Hershey. Received a 2nd Junior and was elated. Went back to Hershey in 1999, thinking, a 1st Junior was a given. No way...received another 2nd Junior. After that, I asked myself just how serious I am about this.The car has never been taken apart. I spent a lot of time detailing components, had it repainted, and, no problems since. It is currently a repeat Senior AGNM all within a 4 year period since I became serious about it.(I also sinned and actually put 1,098 miles on it in the 4 years. Drove it to Hershey this year solely to hear young people say nice MG, mister. For whatever reason, most young'ns think all British Sportscars are MGs.)Regards, Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Keith ~ I hear you quite clearly and am not blinded by tradition. I just don't agree with your position, OK. Do you expect everyone to agree with the position you take merely because you state it. You obviously want it your way and I want it to stay as it is. Nuff said!hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBerg Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 I had hoped to stay out of this discussion simply because I am on the current judging committee and have been for the last 13 years. I have also served as Chairman Judges Training and VP Class Judging, those these positions all seem like a long time ago. We have dealt with this matter before in committee and no doubt will do so in the future as well. As someone stated it is your club and ultimately it is you the members that have the final say. But for the moment lets look at this debate and I'll give you my viewpoint. For purposes of the conversation lets look at vehicles in a class competing for the Senior award since that is what the topic seems to center on.First off for those unfamilar with how the system works lets recap it briefly. In order to win the Senior award TWO things have to happen 1: The vehicle must score at least 375 points, and 2: be within 10 points of the highest scoring vehicle in that class also competing for the Senior award. Upon entering the show field all vehicles are given 400 points and the judges deduct accordingly from that score. Keep in mind now that vehicles in that class going for the Junior or the Preservation awards have no bearing on the Senior award. Each area Junior, Senior and Preservation are a class of their own.Now lets assume the highest scoring car in that class going for Senior scores 395 points. In order to win the Senior award a vehcile would need to score at least 385 points (395-10=385) you see essentially the 10 point is 11 points if each point is counted. So all cars scoring from 385 to 395 on that day competing for Senior will win that award.The argument here is that once these cars win and go on to the preservation class that another with a low end qualifying score of say 375 or so will walk in and take the award next time out. While this scenario is possible the argument has flaws. Nowhere in the discussion has it been noted that each of the new First Junior winners in that class are now elevated to Senior status and will be competing for that very same Senior award at the next meet they attend. Thus while it is possible that the 375 car will get it, it is also unlikely. I have a vehicle that has tried numerous times at numerous meets to achieve Senior winner status in Class 27b. It scores more than the minimum required 375 but time after time not enough to make it and this has been going on since 1987! So the theory of a bunch of cars grabbing a lucky senior is probably not going to happen with any regularity.The next argument is what is the standard. Currently the standard of perfection is 400 points. Let me say this, a 375 point vehicle is still a very nice vehicle! I do not for a minute believe that a Senior badge on one of these vehicles should it happen, would look out of place. About 14 years ago I believe the minimum for senior was raised from the then 365 to the current 375 level. Time has proven this to be a reasonable change though at the time there was opposition to any raise in the minimum as would be expected. To raise the level to say 385 points I believe would be going too far. As it is the system is geared at all the levels. Junior requires 365, Senior 375, Grand National 380, and Grand National Senior 390. As it should be each level has its degree of difficulty even before the point spread (10 poins for Jr and Sr)(5 points for Grand National) (Grand National Senior has no spread as 390 is tough enough.) is even considered.The way i see it we have three choices:1. We can Lower the standard to allow any vehicle that scores 375 to win a Senior award. Personally I dont like that for the several reasons already mentioned in the preceeding posts.2. We can raise the level to 385 or 390 and give all those scoring those levels the Senior award. Basically in theory we are doing that anyway. Yes, there are exceptions but they are few.3. We can leave the system just the way it is.You the members will decide that and while I like to think I take an aggressive stance when it comes to change and enjoy making productive changes, in this instance I truly believe that we are fine the way we are.I can assure you of this. We have a very good VP of Class Judging in Bo Croley, and a good judging committee. If enough of you want change and write to Mr. Croley or another director then change will happen. Until that time take it from someone that has experienced the judging systems of many of the marque clubs and other national organizations when I tell you that AACA is still the fairest one around and gives its members the best opportunity to enjoy the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Thanks Dave for the post,maybe this is something that should be mentioned in the AACA Mag as most AACA members have probably never visited this site. I have heard this topic discussed by many (I know Howard, you have never heard ANYONE mention this before).Of your choices Dave, I vote for # 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Very well put, Dave.Keith ~ Sarcasm does nothing to advance your cause. I could throw it back at you, but you might well miss the point.And yes. I have heard your arguement before. Since 1978. There must be something right about the system. If not, it would not have remained virtually unchanged for 30+ years and through dozens of administrations and Vice Presidents of Class Judging as well as Judging Committees.But if you feel so strongly, stop bitching on here and make your case for change to the VP of Class Judging.Have a nice day, ya heah. hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Excellent point Restorer32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 It "ain't necessarily so" that people will make their car as good as possible; more so, it may be they make them as good as they can afford to do them. That has often been the case with me. The point spread puts a little more anticipation into the game I think. Many "street rodders" have told me that they do street rods because it's "too hard" to get the parts to restore a car authentically.....is that the easy way out? Sometimes it takes a long hard road to get to the top. I've been there and I know -- in more ways than one -- but in this specific case, it took me 18 years to get my car right and win the First Junior and Senior. Too often today, we want our gratification "right now". I don't know if that applies, but suffice it to say, that if you aren't sure you're going to get it, and you have to play some angles, well when you do get it, you really feel like a winner. One time I drove from Glen Burnie, MD to Louisville, KY (Churchill Downs,1978) with my blue 39 Buick, was the only car in class and still got a 2nd. That was the day I decided to do it completely over. Three years later nobody could get close to us. As hard as it had been to get there I think I'd have been pretty upset if a 365 car had tied us. As Howard says, "just my opinion". And I agree with Restorer32.....if everybody who scored 365 could get a 1st, and everybody who scored 375 could get a Senior, then with today's costs, that's as good as most people would ever shoot for. And, too, AACA would have to spend a lot more on tropies I suspect. Editorial Note: Howard, don't forget who preceded you for two years prior to your being National Judges Training Director (now Chairman, Judges Training) -- ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Yassah boss. I knowed it wuz you what teached me all I lernt befo taking on da job of trainin all dem judges. Thanks, Earl. It was you who launched my AACA career. There may be some out there who will never forgive you for that. Now in a few more years you can follow me into retirement. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Retirement? Earl? You got to be kidding. There's still a lot of us that needs educating about the ins and outs of Buicks! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiragtop Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 I thought Senior cars had to score 390 and above? Also Olds442, I'm curious, how do you know how many points your car scored? I thought that information cannot be obtained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greg72monte Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 390 is for Grand National Senior (no point spread)380 is Grand National (5 point spread)375 is Senior (10 point spread)365 is Junior (10 point spread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted October 20, 2004 Author Share Posted October 20, 2004 I was going by the fact that there were 4 other cars going for their senior award in my class and I was the only one who got it.When I got my Junior I think there 3 others that didn't make it. Any numbers that were used in this thread were only for examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Keith, in many ways I can say "DITTO" but from other viewpoints consider this:1. If you and I both compete in the same class and go to all of the shows together, your car could only beat mine once. If you win a first junior, and I go home with a second place, the next show that we both went to you'd be going for a Senior while I'm still going for a 1st Junior. If you win your senior and my car is restored well enough, I should get a 1st Junior as long as I did my homework and got my car right.2. On the flip side, most of the cars that my father and I have in our collection are "oddball" cars. It isn't because we purposely looked for them, but we found decent cars and bought them for a bargain. These "oddball" cars are much more difficult to restore and in my mind require more time and skills to fabricate and salvage what we need to save the vehicle. Currently in our fleet we have three cars that have won AACA awards. One is a 1st Junior, one is a 2nd AGNM, and one is a 1st AGNM. For the most part, we know how good our vehicles are. To dispute the comments made by others as to "only restoring to a level high enough to win" has never been a case with us. In the areas of weakness of our vehicles, it isn't an issue of lack of desire, ambition, etc. It is a case of where we know where the problem areas are, but the parts needed to correct the problems aren't out there, so we've had to fix what we've got the best way that we know how. After taking a 2nd AGNM with our woodie, there isn't a doubt in my mind that we had the points that we needed, but we got blown out of the water. There isn't a doubt in my mind that if we could find the parts needed to fix our areas of weakness, we could win. - I agree with what you're saying, I do see the other side, but when we have won, and we did the work ourselves instead of hiring someone else to do the work, there is no other way to describe the feeling of accomplishment. Our woodie took a 2nd in Buffalo. But we took a Senior at Hershey among some tough competition and that is still nothing to be ashamed of. Our '37 pickup has always walked through whatever award we were trying to get with it, but that too has its' faults based on lack of availability for parts. Until this can get changed, go to Judging School, do some judging, go to CJE's, do some research, keep looking for parts, keep working on your car and maybe the awards will come their way. If they don't, at least you know what the judges are looking for so that you can make the corrections on what you've got now. In our case we've gone as far as we can go with the parts that we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now