kar3516 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 (edited) Not mine…beautiful car. Ad says the interior leather and wood is original https://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/d/monterey-1933-rolls-royce-park-ward/7782447201.html per owner: Park Ward Aluminum Body owner contact: Art (707) 328-2452 Edited September 10 by kar3516 (see edit history) 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 (edited) If you have been thinking about taking the pre-war Rolls-Royce plunge, this 20/25 would be an excellent first dip in that exclusive pool! Of course, it's going to be an expensive venture, but if this profile doesn't grab your attention, maybe a pre-war Rolls-Royce isn't really for you. Note the long-hood-length-to-low-windshield-height ratio and the close-coupled passenger compartment with integrated long trunk. Repainting the light blue back to matching dark blue would make this design just pop...in the best taste, of course. I defer to those who know these cars to provide the provisos. For the record: Contact: Call or Text Art (707) 3-two-8-2-4-5-two. Copy and paste in your email: 320f79b2f53b379badb5eaab6a1c26db@sale.craigslist.org Edited September 10 by 58L-Y8 addendum comments (see edit history) 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 That is a handsome profile for sure! I like it more without the whitewalls... 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 51 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: Repainting the light blue back to matching dark blue would make this design just pop...in the best taste, of course. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 Thanks, EmTee. I was waiting for A.J. have fun dismissing the whitewall tires too... 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif in Calif Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 It really makes a statement! I agree with Steve: they shouldn't have stopped the light blue at the end of the door. Makes no sense. Do the headlights have a sealed beam conversion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 7 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: Thanks, EmTee. I was waiting for A.J. have fun dismissing the whitewall tires too... Ha - I was channeling his mojo! Actually, I was originally undecided about the whitewalls, which is why I decided to play with the picture. I surprised myself when I saw the result! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 (edited) 10 minutes ago, EmTee said: Ha - I was channeling his mojo! Actually, I was originally undecided about the whitewalls, which is why I decided to play with the picture. I surprised myself when I saw the result! The whitewall tires are bullseye targets that distract the flow of our eyes as Walt G points out. Two-tone paint on a pre-war car with such fine proportions as this detracts from the unity of the design, makes us notice separate areas when we should simply take in its overall aesthetic appeal. "Do the headlights have a sealed beam conversion?" Leif: It looks to be a sealed beam conversion, though at least they hid them inside. Not those hideous pie-eyed Model A sealed beam conversions. Edited September 10 by 58L-Y8 syntax corrected (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 Before I did the monochromatic update I was thinking it might look better all silver. Looking at it now, I think I lighter color (even silver) risks losing the highlights generated by those curves. I'm now thinking darker colors are probably better for this car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 I like it. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 Seller says that the original order was for “high speed touring”. How fast does a small Rolls go? Is this a 60 mph car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kar3516 Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 4 hours ago, EmTee said: This car is stunning in dark blue with blackwalls. Proportions are perfect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 The car was never meant to be painted two tone, other than perhaps the belt molding being a lighter color. White tires totally ruin it. A fantastic looking car, though, and I agree, it would be a wonderful car to own. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kar3516 Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 (edited) Someone here needs to buy this car and start a thread about their sorting and/or reconditioning experiences. I want to be a beneficiary of the knowledge gained without having to write the checks. How would the mechanical costs compare to perhaps a 33 Packard Standard Eight sedan? Kent Edited September 10 by kar3516 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 1 hour ago, kar3516 said: Someone here needs to buy this car and start a thread about their sorting and/or reconditioning experiences. I want to be a beneficiary of the knowledge gained without having to write the checks. How would the mechanical costs compare to perhaps a 33 Packard Standard Eight sedan? Kent It is going to be more money as even a 20/25 RR is over engineered to some degree. However, they made a lot of them and the club support through the 20/25 Society of the RROC is strong. I love Packards but I would take this over a standard eight Packard just because of its sophistication and build quality. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 2 hours ago, m-mman said: Seller says that the original order was for “high speed touring”. How fast does a small Rolls go? Is this a 60 mph car? I doubt it. Have never been in a 20/25 but have been in a 20 and that was a 40 mph car. The PII is comfortable at 60 and if you believe the factory documentation was supposed to cruise at 80 which feels like a lot of rpm for a 6 cylinder 468 cubic inch engine to me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 There are so many less interesting cars out there for 35K. However, I think the photography is well done and in person the car will not seem so big. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 1 hour ago, alsancle said: "I doubt it. Have never been in a 20/25 but have been in a 20 and that was a 40 mph car." A.J.: I was wondering what performance expectations were realistic for a 20/25. Checking the spec's, its only 224 ci F-head six-cylinder, 3 1/4 X 4 1/2 bore & stroke, four-speed transmission on a 129" wb, carrying coach-built bodies which are noted as typically ~4,200 lbs. I tried finding an American contemporary of the 20/25 with similar spec's but every make with a similar mid-220's ci engine size were in the 113"-117" wb and ~ 3,000-3,200 lbs. Maybe the gearing makes this a "high speed touring" for its time. While most of the 20/25's are over-cabbed and formal, the proportions and design here evoke a modest-sized PII Continental sport saloon. Steve 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 (edited) I have driven one of these for quite a few miles, and they are surprisingly good road cars. They aren’t is big as you think. For anything but interstates, they are fine. They are fairly complicated and difficult to work on compared to a Packard standard eight. Edited September 10 by edinmass (see edit history) 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 Feels like whomever priced it is being realistic but will take a special buyer to take the plunge. Are these significantly tougher to keep on the road vs. The postwar RR/Bentleys that seem more roadable. But some of these small hp RR have major style in a small package. Leading to question 2 - how does a 42" waist fit on one of these... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 Probably better than a 44" waist! What do the numbers 20/25 mean. No knowledge of these type or even early cars but I see numbers thrown about all of the time. I have no idea what you guys are talking about? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 1 hour ago, TAKerry said: Probably better than a 44" waist! What do the numbers 20/25 mean. No knowledge of these type or even early cars but I see numbers thrown about all of the time. I have no idea what you guys are talking about? RR designated their cars by some magic HP number that I can't figure out. The Silver Ghost through PII were designated at 40/50 HP. A stock PII on a dyno will put out 146HP. So who knows that it actually means. The 20/25 started out as the 20HP in the 1920s and was upgraded to the 20/25 in the 1930s. So 20/25 is a model designation that it is an upgrade over the 20. Make sense? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kar3516 Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 1 hour ago, TAKerry said: Probably better than a 44" waist! What do the numbers 20/25 mean. No knowledge of these type or even early cars but I see numbers thrown about all of the time. I have no idea what you guys are talking about? It’s my understanding that the numbers are “tax hp”. Some arcane method of determining how much tax is to be paid by the owner. Perhaps property tax? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 RAC hp was the British tax hp. It’s bore (in inches) squared, times number of cylinders, divided by 2.5. It was originally close to real HP, but not for long. A 20/25 is the preceding chassis of the 20 HP model but with engine bored out and rated at 25 HP 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif in Calif Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 57 minutes ago, bryankazmer said: RAC hp was the British tax hp. It’s bore (in inches) squared, times number of cylinders, divided by 2.5. It was originally close to real HP, but not for long. A 20/25 is the preceding chassis of the 20 HP model but with engine bored out and rated at 25 HP Exactly! And because bore was the only dimension they taxed, engines in the period were small bore and really long stroke, which makes for a tall deck height and big crank case, so to modern eyes, their external dimensions seem huge for their actual displacement. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 Looking for a comparable, the 1933 Chrysler Six Series CO had the same bore & stroke and displacement: 3 1/4 X 4 1/2 for 224 ci. It was rated at 83hp @ 3400 rpm. Presumably, no one revved their flathead Chrysler sixes to wring the maximum horsepower out but drove in the 800-1500rpm range, the maximum torque at whatever lower rpms would give us a reasonable understanding of how this car would perform. Overall weight would be the next limiters, the Chrysler were ~3,000 lbs; Rolls-Royce 20/25 ~4,200lbs. Now it comes down to how each car is geared: Chrysler CO: 4.37: 1; RR 20/25: 4.55:1. The 20/25 has a four-speed transmission. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 The weight differential is the most surprising statistic to me. Any idea why since these 20/25 RR were relatively small cars compared to US makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 39 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said: The weight differential is the most surprising statistic to me. Any idea why since these 20/25 RR were relatively small cars compared to US makes. Composite steel or aluminum over wood-framed coach-built bodies were heavier than largely all-steel stamping bodies Chrysler was sourcing from Briggs. The Chrysler CO was 117" wb; 20/25 129" wb. Another approximate comparable would be the 1933 Packard Eight 1001 on 127 1/2 wb, composite steel over wood, 4,335 lbs, engine configurations differences between the Packard and RR makes comparison difficult. Never underestimate RR penchant for overengineering and complications adding to weight. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 The NN/NN horse power numbers were an English and European thing. England and some European countries taxed automobiles based upon a theoretical horse power figure which read as one number over the other (don't ask me for the specifics?). The taxation was punitive and made higher horse power cars very expensive to license and use. Those figures were prominently displayed in the model numbers in part so that people could readily see and know whether they could afford to own a given model or not. Horse power figures are at best confusing, and at worst infuriating. There are dozens of different formulas that have been used around the world over the past 150 years. Sometimes a book or advertisement will give some clue to the formula used, like following a number with A.L.A.M. (Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers), or some other industry standard. The horse power number without some sort of qualification is virtually meaningless. However, the numbers given as a fractional appearance are generally recognized as the English and European taxation formula, and really don't need any addition qualification or code. In addition to formula calculations (which are generally basic and very incomplete?), horse power can be measured by several methods. Those can range from total produced horse power to actual delivered horse power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentleyboy Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 Wow having a hard time saying no.... In the picture that shows the engine attached to the bulkhead with a wingnut is a strange item with three knobs on it, it looks like it might be a tool, anyone know what it is? A good highway cruising speed would be what about 45-50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deppe Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 The handle with the three knobs on it is for the built in jacks. The rest of the tool is the long black shaft at the bottom, which engages with the jack system on the car. There should be one jack under the front axle in the middle and one on each side at the rear. As for the power output of the 20/25, they were all chassis dyno tested at the factory and this data is typically included in the build records. I have a 1934 20/25 and the chassis dyno test showed a peak of 68.5 HP at 3250 RPM. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentleyboy Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 Thanks Dave I would have never figured that tool out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentleyboy Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 Waited too long ad has been taken down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 This posting has been deleted by its author. 9-12-2024. This one is going to haunt a lot of us for a long time who wanted it but couldn't or didn't act quickly enough... If you are the fortunate new owner, please step forward, tell us all about it...make us green with envy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kar3516 Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 41 minutes ago, Bentleyboy said: Waited too long ad has been taken down The phone number is listed above; call to make sure it’s actually sold and paid for… 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) Configured as West shows it was making me do some quick mental math gyrations but... knowing a couple Springfield owners and what upkeep is on those would give me pause as these cannot be that different. The new owner would do well to follow this thread - side panel paint and a set of blackwalls would bring a handsome car up a couple notches! Congrats to them! Edited September 13 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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