wire wheel paint 'in japan'?

[tcslr]

Hoping someone can explain what this comment means.  On looking at various paint schemes, lower body is ( example) Verda Gray, wire wheels are Verda Gray in Japan.  What does 'in Japan' mean?

[TerryB]

Look here:

https://www.ronanpaints.com/japan-colors

[rocketraider]

I've heard early black auto paint referred to as "japanning". Past that I don't know.

[TerryB]

9 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

I've heard early black auto paint referred to as "japanning". Past that I don't know.

Yes japanning is often associated with a lacquer paint making process used to paint objects black but other colors are also available today.  Drying time is usually quick for this type of paint from what I’ve heard.

[Oldtech]

Ford used "Japan Enamel" on the Model T as it was the only thing that dried fast enough for their production.

[Frank DuVal]

And don't forget Japan Drier! Additive to speed drying.😉

[PFitz]

I was taught that automotive Japanning or Japaned meant it was the early nitro lacquer but not the natural lacquer that the Japanese used for a finish.

 

Paul

[Bloo]

Japan Black predates nitrocellulose automotive paint. It is Gilsonite (asphalt) paint, which can still be bought if you dig deep enough. This is the thick shiny black finish seen on US domestic door locks, brass bladed fans, and cast iron parts of all sorts of the industrial age. Painting with this is called "japanning". It imitates the look of east Asian lacquerware of the time but had nothing in common. Duco (nitrocellulose lacquer automotive paint) came along in the late 20s.

 

"japan Colors" as in @TerryB's post are something else entirely. Those are pigments that were used in automotive finishing in the brass era where layers of flat pigment and layers of varnish were built up and sanded slowly in multiple coats, sometimes taking weeks. This a process Henry Ford sought to avoid when he switched to black only.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8 by Bloo (see edit history)

[prewarnut]

23 hours ago, Bloo said:

Japan Black predates nitrocellulose automotive paint. It is Gilsonite (asphalt) paint, which can still be bought if you dig deep enough. This is the thick shiny black finish seen on US domestic door locks, brass bladed fans, and cast iron parts of all sorts of the industrial age. Painting with this is called "japanning". It imitates the look of east Asian lacquerware of the time but had nothing in common. Duco (nitrocellulose lacquer automotive paint) came along in the late 20s.

 

"japan Colors" as in @TerryB's post are something else entirely. Those are pigments that were used in automotive finishing in the brass era where layers of flat pigment and layers of varnish were built up and sanded slowly in multiple coats, sometimes taking weeks. This a process Henry Ford sought to avoid when he switched to black only.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! I reads the technical brochure and it looks like it is marketed even for vehicle chassis use. I wonder do you (or anyone) have a comment one whether this would be an ideal use for a prewar chassis application, over, say the POR-15 products people use? An advantage could be the one-step application, no mixing and high gloss finish (if that was to be desired) but not sure if the rust protection is as good.

Edited April 9 by prewarnut (see edit history)

[Bloo]

I have not used it. Several years ago I was considering using it for chassis paint. I probably saw the word "Gilsonite" in some description of the original chassis finish. I think maybe it was baked when used on cars back then, but I'm not sure of that either. I seem to recall forum threads where the brass fan restoration crowd were experimenting with it. That is where I would search for modern day knowledge.

 

I don't know if POR-15 is comparable. As I understand it, it is meant to be over rust and does not stick to clean metal that well. I've also heard it is not UV resistant, so needs some other coating over top for best results. I wouldn't take any of that as gospel without digging further, but painting over rust is something I would rather not do, so I've not dug very deep. As you mentioned though, It probably would not be one step.

 

On clean metal I would be more inclined to use 2-part epoxy primer than POR-15 and just brush it. I don't want to breathe it. It's expensive but has far better adhesion than anything we've had in the past. It also lacks UV resistance, so would need another coating over the top.

 

Edited April 9 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Oldtech]

Yes on the POR 15 needing a topcoat if it sees the sun at all.  Makes a good durable finish then. 

[Rusty_OToole]

The Gilsonite or black japan enamel was a tough quick drying paint used on car chassis wheels and fenders. Ford used it on all car bodies because it was cheap and dried quickly, saving time and money. Should be the same thing they used to sell as "chassis black" paint.

 

It was the best paint for the purpose 100 years ago or more, today there may be better paints but it would be authentic for an early car. How long the industry kept using it I don't know but some cars came stock with black chassis and fenders until the thirties, some trucks until the fifties.

Edited April 10 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Tom Boehm]

Bloo and Rusty have the right answer. Here is a link to a Youtube video posted by a guy who restores antique tools. He experimented to find a formula for an authentic japan finish. If you are really concerned with authenticity, it is probably possible to reproduce japanning. If not, then just use any modern black paint. Like Bloo, I have seen japanning on antique door locks and other old cast iron hardware. Maybe white pigment was added to the black japan paint to make gray. I can't imagine it possible to make any other color in japan paint?

 

 

Edited April 11 by Tom Boehm (see edit history)