Vehicle requirements (I don't want to look like a jirk. Everyone has their own taste and opinions.)

[demco32]

2 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Yes , much different laws for different countries. Here in North America the shipping on a new British frame gets very expensive. So sooner or later someone starts to build the commonly needed ones over here. Morgan , TVR, Lotus etc. Glad I don't live in the EU. It's hard enough to afford old sports cars as it is without dealing with a massive tangle of bureaucracy.

I wish I could live in the USA, for me it is the land of the free.

Did you know that a registration for my tundra is now $16000 and the tax  every year is over $6000

Gas is now 4x USA prize ( I pay for 1 liter the same as you for 1 gallon)

[demco32]

1 minute ago, 1912Staver said:

How would anyone know ? What's wrong with better than what the factory turned out in 1964 ?

  there are factory details in database in the technical control centers.

Better or not is not the problem.

The law say it has to be factory original.

If personnel in the technical control center has doubt he will not give documents for registration.

 

[1912Staver]

I live on the West Coast of Canada. Gas price is almost always the highest in North America. That's why I have MG's and TVR's. But somewhat cheaper than what you pay in Europe. It's about $1.65 Canadian a liter now { about 1.14 Euro / liter }  Registration and tax are way cheaper however.

What are you currently paying in Euro's / liter ?

 Some day I hope to visit Belgium, one of my grandmothers was born there in 1908. She was evacuated to Canada during WW1. After the war the rest of her family moved to Canada.

Edited February 19 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[demco32]

6 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I live on the West Coast of Canada. Gas price is almost always the highest in North America. That's why I have MG's and TVR's. But somewhat cheaper than what you pay in Europe. It's about $1.65 Canadian a liter now { about 1.14 Euro / liter }  Registration and tax are way cheaper however.

What are you currently paying in Euro's / liter ?

Benzine 95 RON E10   1,7480 euro/l

Benzine 98 RON E5    1,9540 euro/l

Never been in Canada.

Would like to go.

I have a shop for Jaguar.

 

[1912Staver]

Nice set up. I used to work in a restoration shop years ago.  Similar but mostly first generation Mustangs and Shelby's. 

 But I then moved to ships. 30 years as a Marine Engineer. I have been retired for 5 years now. The cars are now just a hobby.

 That's a very nice frame jig ! Any jigs I need I make myself. Once you retire you will miss having equipment like that available. Much too expensive for hobby work. 

 My grandmother was from a town quite close to you but I forget the name. The family lived on a farm close to Ghent. But they moved to Canada in 1919. I am sure I have distant relatives in the area , but I am not in contact with any of them . My grandmother stayed in touch and visited often in the 1960's and 70's. But she has been dead since 1995. 

Edited February 19 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[demco32]

2 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Nice set up. I used to work in a restoration shop years ago.  Similar but mostly first generation Mustangs and Shelby's. 

 But I then moved to ships. 30 years as a Marine Engineer. I have been retired for 5 years now. The cars are now just a hobby.

as an example of how difficult it is to register an antique car.

This GTD 40 is not an kit-car but build in the UK.

Had registration in the Netherlands.

We have been trying to register the car for two years now.

Technical control say it is a kit car.... no documents for registration.

Cars are also now hobby, retired too now 1 year.

 

[1912Staver]

You need to buy a little cottage somewhere in rural NL or even in Spain or the U.K.. Register the cars there and just drive as a visitor in Belgium.

[jeff_a]

On 2/17/2024 at 7:28 PM, 61polara said:

That's not in the spirit of the AACA mission.  Everything 25 years and older is accepted through 1999 as of this year.

Even the 2000 Pontiac Aztek will be eligible in 2025, plus its rebadged Buick version(Rendezvous) two years later.

Don't laugh, the tailfin cars and Edsels were predicted to be non-collectible at one time. When I bought a Nash Metro when I was in college, it cost about what my used 10-speed did -- $100 -- but Metro prices have recovered a lot since then.  

Edited February 20 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:51 AM, dodge28 said:

Pease cooking in the pot 9 days old, some like it hot ,some like it cold. Each to his own. We all are entitled to that.

Let’s see…..A headlight which swivels to cover an area where the steering wheel points the car, tail fins, a huge bumper, a top which hides in the trunk, a “hardtop convertible”……….Oh, wait!…….Electronic ignition, electronic fuel injection, a ECM that manages all engine functions………….Whoa!……….mechanical brakes, a vacuum fuel system, a rim which expands into the tire (?)……..tire (?)……..Oh, that rubber thing which replaced the steel rim.

In the absence of a car which talks about us, we talk about cars. Old cars, new cars, beautiful cars and beater cars. Cars which do fabulous things and cars which do really stupid things. Cars which please and others which horrify………..Christine marries Herbie and they have a Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang son😄.

Talk small block, big block, flathead, L head, hemi-head, gas, diesel or LPG, steam or wood……anything besides politics, finances, religion and Medicare. But talk, and let the era sort itself out

Jack

[demco32]

14 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

You need to buy a little cottage somewhere in rural NL or even in Spain or the U.K.. Register the cars there and just drive as a visitor in Belgium.

That would not work.

there are IMPR camera's 

[demco32]

14 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Nice set up. I used to work in a restoration shop years ago.  Similar but mostly first generation Mustangs and Shelby's. 

 But I then moved to ships. 30 years as a Marine Engineer. I have been retired for 5 years now. The cars are now just a hobby.

 That's a very nice frame jig ! Any jigs I need I make myself. Once you retire you will miss having equipment like that available. Much too expensive for hobby work. 

 My grandmother was from a town quite close to you but I forget the name. The family lived on a farm close to Ghent. But they moved to Canada in 1919. I am sure I have distant relatives in the area , but I am not in contact with any of them . My grandmother stayed in touch and visited often in the 1960's and 70's. But she has been dead since 1995. 

I keep my equipment and tools

Many people emigrated to Canada or the USA after the Great War.

there was a lot of unemployment due to the ravages of the war.

 

[demco32]

14 hours ago, jeff_a said:

Even the Aztek will be eligible in 2025, plus its rebadged Buick version two years later.

Don't laugh, the tailfin cars and Edsels were predicted to be non-collectible at one time. When I bought a Nash Metro when I was in college, it cost about what my used 10-speed did -- $100 -- but Metro prices have recovered a lot since then.  

In the Netherlands it will be no longer possible to have a registration as antique car is the car is from after 1989.

[8E45E]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:23 AM, Packard enthus. said:

For example, go to the MAY JUNE 2023 issue (Volume 87 Number 3).   See the article entitled EMERGING ANTIQUES that begins on Pp. 76,   There you will find the author stating "antiques from this modern era" are where we should give more consideration.

 

Just think, in another year my 2000 Toyota RAV 4 will be considered an "antique" by some folks.  They would be VERY unhappy with me if I dared violate what these folks want to hear, should I call it "a used car"

Have you been to the autowreckers lately?

 

Nearly every 25-30 year old car, SUV, or pickup in there still has unfaded shiny paint on it!!

 

Craig

[Packard enthus.]

3 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Have you been to the autowreckers lately?  Nearly every 25-30 year old car, SUV, or pickup in there still has unfaded shiny paint on it!!  Craig

..................................................................................................................................................................

May I inquire?   How does your above post tell us what your position is,  on the changes in the use of words such as "classic" and "antique"...?

[1912Staver]

6 hours ago, demco32 said:

I keep my equipment and tools

Many people emigrated to Canada or the USA after the Great War.

there was a lot of unemployment due to the ravages of the war.

 

That's great you hung on to all your equipment. Most people when they retire from the auto business around here have no choice than to sell off all the big , expensive stuff.  The problem ends up being where to put that sort of equipment. Cars are cheap to license and insure around here. But land and buildings are extremely expensive unless you move well into the remote areas. And I mean " Canadian " remote, probably hundreds of Kilometers from reliable medical care etc. Where I live is one of the least affordable places in the Western World, mostly due to low average incomes , very high land and structure prices. 

Edited February 20 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

you are really just in a tiny portion of not only Canada......but a tiny portion of British Colombia....where people choose to want to live......Canadians have reliable medical care in smaller places ......but most Canadians 95% live within one hour of the border coast to coast in or near larger centers with excellent medical facilities.....of course a very remote area a person chooses to live will have less medical facilities whether it be Canada or Alaska or Australia etc......land is expensive in your area yes....but buildings are about the same cost to build.......your suburb Vancouver area is not as expensive as it used to be now that other cities and even rural areas have really increased in price

[8E45E]

2 hours ago, Packard enthus. said:

May I inquire?   How does your above post tell us what your position is, on the changes in the use of words such as "classic" and "antique"...?

Funny you ask this!

 

Not long ago, a friend of mine who's daughter had a small fender-bender with her second generation Mercury Topaz (it qualifies as a bona-fide antique here.) which was a medium metallic blue in color, original paint & interior.   In the local PnP yard was a similar Topaz in the exact same color, and in worse condition for wear because of much higher mileage, and presumably "used up" mechanically, though the body was still presentable, aside from rust on the rear quarters and the rockers.  The front fenders were still in excellent shape with the still-shiny, unfaded original medium metallic blue paint on them, and it was a perfect match that didn't need repainting.  That's my autowrecker story of the day.

 

As I stated in this post previously, cars don't 'age' like they did 50 years ago when it was 'the norm' to WAX a car after washing it!!   (I haven't heard a Turtle Wax 'Hard shell finish' ad on the radio for years) 

May I inquire: Does your 2000 RAV4 still have its original paint on it that still looks like new?  As far as my "postion", its not up to me to make a judgement call on what car is considered 'antique' when it turns 25.  

 

Craig

Edited February 20 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, arcticbuicks said:

you are really just in a tiny portion of not only Canada......but a tiny portion of British Colombia....where people choose to want to live......Canadians have reliable medical care in smaller places ......but most Canadians 95% live within one hour of the border coast to coast in or near larger centers with excellent medical facilities.....of course a very remote area a person chooses to live will have less medical facilities whether it be Canada or Alaska or Australia etc......land is expensive in your area yes....but buildings are about the same cost to build.......your suburb Vancouver area is not as expensive as it used to be now that other cities and even rural areas have really increased in price

Emergency services are frequently closed in many " smaller " places in British Columbia these days. Many not so small ones also are seeing weekend closures. There is a very serious Doctor and Nurse shortage in British Columbia. B.C. interior, Vancouver Island outside of Victoria.

As far as I can see where I live is as expensive as ever, and still going up.

 I would have left this area long ago, but my wife won't consider it. 

 Unfortunately I am just a retired person living on a modest pension. Hard to build a nice shop or progress on projects on a very restricted income. And yes , where I live is 3/4 of the problem. 

 Farm land , which comes along with a large number of restrictions regarding what you can build can be had as cheap as 1.5 million for 5 acres, 2.5 million or so with a 1/2 decent house. If it is not farm land zoning  5 million an acre is cheap. 

 I have been trying to solve this problem for 20 years now. The prices just get higher, and I have less and less disposable income each year.

Here is one for sale just around the corner from me. As you can see a little over 2 million does not buy much .  Cheapest small acreage with a house for sale in Langley at the moment. Just 10 K a month with $400,000.00 down payment.

 

4216 240 STREET, Langley, British Columbia — Point2 Canada (point2homes.com)

Edited February 20 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Packard enthus.]

Thank you for posting a photo of the front of your late model GMC truck in front of the same place I had earlier photographed my Packard Twelve,  and telling us I was there last month".

 

That is nice that you were able to park your late model GMC truck in that same place.  May I inquire...how you believe your post contributes to the discussions in this "thread" ?  Discuss, please.

 

 

[ted sweet]

stop feeding the troll

[Larry Schramm]

19 hours ago, Packard enthus. said:

Thank you for posting a photo of the front of your late model GMC truck in front of the same place I had earlier photographed my Packard Twelve,  and telling us I was there last month".

 

That is nice that you were able to park your late model GMC truck in that same place.  May I inquire...how you believe your post contributes to the discussions in this "thread" ?  Discuss, please.

 

 

 

Shows that many of us have the same interests.  A lot of common ground between us.  I will remove it for you.

Edited February 24 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

@Packard enthus. @Larry Schramm i do not see anything wrong with the picture that happens to include a late model gmc.......you did not change the subject to a gmc......but rather that you shared that you were at the kingsman route 66 sign also.....whether you have a vintage car or not ......the sign represents the historic past of antique and vintage auto travel etc......i assume larry is not from the state of arizona ? maybe traveled quite a distance to be there and in winter where you wouldnt want to risk to take a old car very far ,also maybe easier for  packard enthus to rely on not going very far with an old car to get a photo with a vintage car together with the historic sign ?........I see the tourist stop historic sign as the feature of the postings and not the particular car under it.........I too would like to visit the spot as well as some museums down in the area.....and as i am 2000 miles away....some of my pics might include a new rental car when i do.......or do we exclude people and members from visiting historic automotive places without a vintage car in hand ?............and i have to wonder why packard enthus is talking about a toyota rav 4 and or even post a picture of it in past posts ....if he/she is so strict to keep topics only vintage......how does your thread talking about your toyota rav contribute to the thread ? 

Edited February 24 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[Leif in Calif]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:51 AM, dodge28 said:

Pease cooking in the pot 9 days old, some like it hot ,some like it cold. Each to his own. We all are entitled to that.

Well said!

I think as far as this forum goes, it's a matter of degrees. Juice brakes on a Model A is Ok, but probably not on a '27 Packard.

A later engine is OK if it's very similar to what was there (and not a 350 Chevy crate motor). We are adverse to custom colors, but if they moved next door, we wouldn't put our own house up for sale.  

[8E45E]

On 2/23/2024 at 7:07 PM, Packard enthus. said:

Thank you for posting a photo of the front of your late model GMC truck in front of the same place I had earlier photographed my Packard Twelve,  and telling us I was there last month".

 

That is nice that you were able to park your late model GMC truck in that same place.  May I inquire...how you believe your post contributes to the discussions in this "thread" ?  Discuss, please.

And next time you are there, you can take a selfie of you and your 'lady of the night' standing in that spot and post it here, too!!

 

Craig

[8E45E]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:41 PM, demco32 said:

You never get this car on the road in Belgium.

If the inspector has doubt about the originality of the frame he will not issue a good report and pink paper for car registration.

For example.

I had a 1978 Pontiac with only 12000 miles from AR and the inspector told me there is a weld on the frond frame that is not original from factory. (crossmember under the engine )

It give me a lot of problems to get the car pass control.

 I took pictures of the exact same cars where the weld was clearly visible.

Went to Headquarters of the technical inspection company and after explanation they accepted that is was original from factory.

Took me 6 month.

Australia appears to be just as difficult to import vehicles, but for other reasons: Help!!! Buggy in quarantine..... - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum

 

Craig

[Packard enthus.]

On 2/17/2024 at 8:48 AM, 31A said:

I don't want to look like a jirk.  Everyone has their own taste and opinions.  I like pure stock. (Sorry). I don't consider vehicles with built frames, fuel injectors, solid state ignition and so on as ANTIQUE.  The fully modified cars with the latest in technology are impressive but do not belong in a Antique club.  Please correct my thinking.

===============================================================================

Your thinking (like mine...!) is woefully obsolete.   In a previous and different USA, the words "antique" and "classic" had precise meanings when applied to autos.  For example, the word "antique" was applied to cars with antique features,  such as brakes on only the rear wheels (which were typically "external contracting",  lighting from carbide generators, high pressure tires, etc.  The word "classic" when applied to cars meant only the largest, most powerful, most elegant "super cars" of the 1920's up to when streamlining and mass-production of less expensive cars took over, just before the onset of the Pearl Harbor attack.  My understanding (someone correct me if I am wrong) at one time the AACA decided the Model A Ford was too "modern" to be considered "antique"...given all the introduction of modern technology (FOUR wheel brakes) that were "internal expanding"...on board electric generation for lights and other accessories, etc. 

 

But that was then.  that was before used car dealers, body shops, after-market manufacturers,  etc. discovered the terms could be used to sell stuff.   To confirm how obsolete the thinking of the originator of this "thread" is, one can look at more recent thinking.   The terms "old used" car...is gone.  ALL used cars are now "classic".   Turn to page 76 of the ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE (the official magazine of the AACA) found in the MAY-JUNE 2023 edition.  You will find an excellent argument for appreciating "Emerging Antiques".   A major "trade magazine called HEMMINGS has page after page of advertisements for various goods and services of interest to old car fans (ooops...shame on me...should have said "antique classic" fans...!).  Try and find a page in that magazine where some part or service was NOT called "antique" or "classic".    Bottom line....enjoy this new era....it is here to stay...our thinking is not!

 

[human-potato_hybrid]

As long as they are not chopping up or tearing apart clean or restorable examples, to each their own.

 

If it's a body and frame with a new drivetrain and accessories, I don't consider it an antique. You can theoretically put an engine and steering in a 19th century carriage but it doesn't make it a 19th century car.

Edited February 26 by human-potato_hybrid (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

I guess I can see now where some of the confusion comes in.

 

Ask yourself, where does the most recent Antique Automobile Club of America logo show any customizations? 
After a quick peak at the logo surely most of us have noticed none of the cars portrayed are even antiques in a technical sense (anything over 100 years old). My own vehicle hasn't met that criteria yet and surely the Challenger in the logo is sporting custom rims...

 

 

Regardless, a motor is still an engine in many of our minds. Afterall, Continental Motors was one of the largest engine builders at one time.

 

My point being, this will never be resolved no matter what side of the topic we land since we will always see things differently from one human to another, we all just need to respect each others space even while we are razzing each other in banter.

 

Topics like these are nothing more than opinion. I don't see any problem with someone expecting a antique car website (such as the AACA forums) dedicated to the preservation of authentic and original vehicles as they were built from the factory.

 

On the same hand, I have no problem with anyone who has a desire to build something custom, but the only thing I would suggest is they have more suitable websites for that type of degenerative behavior if that's what one chooses to do . 

 

 

 

 

[Packard enthus.]

3 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

I guess I can see now where some of the confusion comes in.

 

Ask yourself, where does the most recent Antique Automobile Club of America logo show any customizations? 
After a quick peak at the logo surely most of us have noticed none of the cars portrayed are even antiques in a technical sense ....

Exactly my point.   The AACA logo,as you point out, does not show "antique" cars (or at least as some of us once thought the word meant).   The AACA is changing.  It simply reflects that our country's culture, language, all are changing, evolving to reflect where we are going as a society.   The simple fact of economic life is that many people now involved in clubs that once had more precise definitions, are directly involved in the sales and service of old cars.   Some of us are from a time when the general public saw nothing worthwhile in old cars; treated us with, if we were lucky, dis-interest (more likely contempt).    When the values climbed, people who saw a chance to make a buck, jumped in.   Been to an auto action recently?  Seen what people are paying for used cars of the post-war years?   Not logical to expect  clubs will ignore the trend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[arcticbuicks]

the AACA logo.......looks ver much like famous Chip Foose's art work  ?

[ex98thdrill]

On 2/18/2024 at 1:51 PM, dodge28 said:

Pease cooking in the pot 9 days old, some like it hot ,some like it cold. Each to his own. We all are entitled to that.

Yup there's room in this hobby for everyone.  

[demco32]

On 2/19/2024 at 8:43 PM, 1912Staver said:

How would anyone know ? What's wrong with better than what the factory turned out in 1964 ? Remember these have { and never had } a frame number. Are they going to EDS test the steel to see if it matches 1964  chemistry ?

To get a car on the road in Belgium, the manufacturer must have many expensive tests and safety tests, accident tests, environmental legislation and much more done and submit the test results to the Ministry of Transport.

The engineers will then determine whether a certificate of conformity can be issued that determines whether a type of car meets all legal requirements.

only car manufacturers can afford such costs.

 

It is possible to build a better, stronger frame than the one originally built from the factory.

but for Belgium every car must be original and a different frame, even if it is better or stronger, is not allowed.

As an example, we have the show on TV from Kindig Customs where they build cars tailor-made to the client's needs.

Even if they are so beautiful and good, they can never be registered in Belgium.

I could buy one or have it built and owned in Belgium, but I would never drive it on public roads or undergo technical inspection.

 

[8E45E]

20 minutes ago, demco32 said:

It is possible to build a better, stronger frame than the one originally built from the factory.

but for Belgium every car must be original and a different frame, even if it is better or stronger, is not allowed.

As an example, we have the show on TV from Kindig Customs where they build cars tailor-made to the client's needs.

Even if they are so beautiful and good, they can never be registered in Belgium.

I could buy one or have it built and owned in Belgium, but I would never drive it on public roads or undergo technical inspection.

It appears Belgium is an AACA car lover's paradise!  NO street rods or cars can be butchered to create one!!

 

Craig

[1912Staver]

I get what you are saying demco. But I think the chances that anyone in Belgium's motor vehicle bureaucracy has even the slightest idea of how a tiny company like TVR or even a bigger co. like Lotus  was building cars in the early  1960's is close to 0%. FIA can't even consistently figure them out. 

 TVR in particular was hand building the cars in small batches. Running changes to the point that lots of small differences exist between cars even very close together in production.

Edited February 27 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[oldcarfudd]

Beware of the power of small gray minds sitting behind large gray desks.

[Ed Luddy]

Replacing rusty frames in Canada is a necessity in a lot of cases. Take the Toyota trucks from 2000 forward.  Lots of Chevy Silverado's as well.

 Almost any C2 or C3 Corvette that was sold new up here  and then driven in the salty winter seasons even for a few years has had the frames rewelded or replaced. My 1st Vette was a 1965 convertible bought in 1979-80. The frame was rotted thru on the main rails behind the sidepipes at 15 years old. 

[demco32]

11 hours ago, 8E45E said:

It appears Belgium is an AACA car lover's paradise!  NO street rods or cars can be butchered to create one!!

 

Craig

Correct, it all come to safety , environmental standard laws.

We can not have adjustable suspension that allow it to set the car higher or lower.

For antique car; because they have to be as original is become more and more difficult  to have technical control.

If a car is more than 50 years after production we should go every 5 years to technical control.

There can be no oil leaking or backlash in suspension parts, steering etc.

Brakes has to be correct  and more.

For these old cars were there are no longer parts available that is is problem.

Or you find a replacement part or you repair it or make a new one.

A lot of car owners can't because you need knowledge and tools, machines .....

 

 

 

 

[demco32]

11 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

I get what you are saying demco. But I think the chances that anyone in Belgium's motor vehicle bureaucracy has even the slightest idea of how a tiny company like TVR or even a bigger co. like Lotus  was building cars in the early  1960's is close to 0%. FIA can't even consistently figure them out. 

 TVR in particular was hand building the cars in small batches. Running changes to the point that lots of small differences exist between cars even very close together in production.

Correct, but they ask technical info  https://www.tvr.co.uk/, or same for Lotus.+ if a technician ad the technical control Centre suspect there is  something not correct he will not issue a good rapport needed to have the car on the public road.

 

 

[1912Staver]

Both TVR and Lotus have gone through several ownership changes. Very little documentation exists in the hands of current owners. TVR had a very serious factory fire in 1975 and virtually all of older drawings , documents etc. were lost. The current companies have little to no interest at all in the " vintage " products .

You can buy nearly every part of a early 1960's TVR new. But not a single piece of it will be made by TVR themselves. That is why people not connected with TVR the company now make parts. The TVR company can sell you nothing at all. Everything on the market is reverse engineered from old parts. These cars are raced a lot, so lots of upgraded specification parts are now made. This is what's available from what I consider the best supplier, but several other companies also make and supply parts. As long as you have a I.D. tag { just a very small tag mounted to the body , nothing at all on the frame } you have a TVR. Just add money.

Edited February 28 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[dodge28]

I restored a 1972 Serries 2 Land Rover a few years ago. I bought a new frame  from a Land Rover Supplier in Half Moon Park New York.US. There were no numbers stamped on it. The Diff, front and rear, gear box, radiator had numbers on them. These numbers were used for  registering Heritage Status, buy all kind of badges and dress up the truck.  Install a badge bar on the front bumper and screw on all sorts of fancy badges. Looks great.    Most European cars are Unit Bodies. They have no frame to replace. Repairs on rotted spot can be easily done. My 1972 MGB has numbers required for Heritage Status. There is a registary of every car at  time of build at the factory. Each one with its own birth certificate.