Day 1 Cybertruck (Dual Motor AWD, Full Self Driving) - $6,996 (Coeur d'Alene ID)

[pre10]

On 11/30/2023 at 5:45 PM, Twisted Shifter said:

 

Well, maybe. I'm not comparing, but how about Galileo?  Maybe even Henry Ford or Thomas Edison.

 

 

Galileo studied speed and velocity, gravity and free fall, the principle of relativity, inertia, projectile motion and also worked in applied science and technology, describing the properties of the pendulum and "hydrostatic balances". He invented the thermoscope and various military compasses, and used the telescope for scientific observations of celestial objects. With an improved telescope he built, he observed the stars of the Milky Way, the phases of Venus, the four largest satellites of Jupiter, Saturn's rings, lunar craters and sunspots. He also built an early microscope.

Galileo's championing of Copernican heliocentrism (Earth rotating daily and revolving around the Sun) was met with opposition from within the Catholic Church and from some astronomers. The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, which concluded that heliocentrism was foolish, absurd, and heretical since it contradicted biblical creationism.^[8][9][10]

 

 

 

No question about it, Elon is absolutely in the same category as Edison and Ford. He may be actually be creating a new category.  Thank God he is on our side.

[Larry Schramm]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:19 AM, TAKerry said:

The problem with this tesla truck (and please pass this thought along to your son Terry) is that it looks like it will be marketed to the 'yuppie' that wants to drive around in a truck as a daily driver because its cool, or tough guy image or whatever you want to fill in the blank with. I wish the auto companies would manufacture a pickup truck aimed towards a working man. Something I can haul a load of sheet rock in the bed, pick up a pallet of brick or block, load up some ladders and scaffolding etc. Priced so a guy that makes a living with his hands can afford one.

 

Buy a basic GM 2500 - 3/4 ton truck.  Very capable for what you are asking for.  I have one and it will tow 18,500 tons.

[Gerczak]

18,500 tons??? What are you pulling? The space shuttle is only 2,000 tons.  If it can pull 9 of them, I might consider a GM again.

 

 

[TAKerry]

12 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

Buy a basic GM 2500 - 3/4 ton truck.  Very capable for what you are asking for.  I have one and it will tow 18,500 tons.

I have a work truck, ironically though it is a loaded fx4 more akin to a luxury cruiser! 

My point is that it would be nice with the ev's being shoved down our throats if someone would produce a vehicle that can be affordably used for a work truck. Not just another fancy vehicle. If I could get a Ford ev truck for 30k I may be in the market. Moms neighbor just bought a Lightning (fords ev truck) and the sticker price was 120k!! The truck is fabulous but I would have to start working 40 hrs a week to pay for something like that just to haul my tools around, LOL.

[TerryB]

Trucks are not bargains today

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by TerryB (see edit history)

[Crusty Trucker]

 

Musk Fanboys Melt Down After Ralph Nader-Founded Car Safety Group Trashes Cybertruck

 

 

 

On Thursday, the Center for Auto Safety took a swipe at the divisive truck in a tweet joking that anyone who drives one is insecure about their "manhood" and was "picked last in gym." The nonprofit consumer advocacy organization also asserted that the Cybertruck will be "dangerous to everyone else on the road."

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/musk-fanboys-melt-down-after-ralph-nader-founded-car-safety-group-trashes-cybertruck/ar-AA1le3il?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=4e7fab47337e4a5ca608d7a2941b2647&ei=62

[R Walling]

 It's ugly?

 

 Don't we have any open-minded people on this site?

 It is simply a new idea, something that must be personally studied with a new vision that may or may not have benefits.

 

 Most of the comments on this post have been made by relying on other people's statements! 

 Think for yourselves and format your own thoughts in due time. 

[AzBob]

The Chrysler Airflow was considered ugly by many when it was introduced.

[maok]

Here is a youtube video with a couple Tesla engineers explaining (2nd half of video) some of the design concepts and features.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by maok (see edit history)

[maok]

Apparently, Elon wants to convert the sceptic oldies to a Cyber truck with new retro styling,

 

[plymouthcranbrook]

On 11/27/2023 at 3:06 PM, Rivguy said:

I live within twenty miles of the Tesla plant in Fremont. I've seen a couple of those trucks on the road in the vicinity and saw another earlier out in Tracy.  A very ugly looking vehicle that resembles a dumpster, especially compared to a Rivian truck, which are pretty common in the Bay Area. I think this will be Elon's first turkey. A Ford Lightening EV is a much better looking and useful truck. 

I suspect then that one would have to be careful where you park it to avoid having the bed filled with full trash bags.

[Dave Wells]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:26 AM, AzBob said:

The Chrysler Airflow was considered ugly by many when it was introduced.

 

Airflows are STILL considered ugly by many!

[Reynard]

 

Ford CEO Jim Farley Swears Video Of Super Duty Rescuing Tesla Cybertruck Out Of Snow Was Not Staged

 

see video:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/not-advertising-ford-ceo-jim-farley-swears-video-of-super-duty-rescuing-tesla-cybertruck-out-of-snow-was-not-staged/ar-AA1lqiYD?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=6451718033b1404085f8abe99487e0ce&ei=33

 

 

[AzBob]

5 hours ago, Reynard said:

 

Ford CEO Jim Farley Swears Video Of Super Duty Rescuing Tesla Cybertruck Out Of Snow Was Not Staged

 

see video:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/not-advertising-ford-ceo-jim-farley-swears-video-of-super-duty-rescuing-tesla-cybertruck-out-of-snow-was-not-staged/ar-AA1lqiYD?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=6451718033b1404085f8abe99487e0ce&ei=33

 

 

The Cybertruck struggles to extricate itself from the snow even with its 4wd and a helping tow from the competition.

 

 

 

[7th Son]

More expensive with less power: Cybertruck reservation holders reveal why they're reconsidering their purchases

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/more-expensive-with-less-power-cybertruck-reservation-holders-reveal-why-they-re-reconsidering-their-purchases/ar-AA1luL8Z?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=be1259eb68124422b29a605f9b408d3b&ei=21

 

• Some Tesla Cybertruck reservation holders are on the fence about finalizing their order.
• The Cybertruck is more expensive than many of its competitors.
• Some reservation holders want more range for the increased price.

[maok]

On 12/13/2023 at 8:37 PM, Dave Wells said:

 

Airflows are STILL considered ugly by many!

Oh come on!!! How could you consider this face is ugly....:)

 

[7th Son]

36 minutes ago, maok said:

Oh come on!!! How could you consider this face is ugly....:)

 

 

It's not only the face, it's everything connected to it.

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by 7th Son (see edit history)

[TerryB]

56 minutes ago, 7th Son said:

More expensive with less power: Cybertruck reservation holders reveal why they're reconsidering their purchases

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/more-expensive-with-less-power-cybertruck-reservation-holders-reveal-why-they-re-reconsidering-their-purchases/ar-AA1luL8Z?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=be1259eb68124422b29a605f9b408d3b&ei=21

 

• Some Tesla Cybertruck reservation holders are on the fence about finalizing their order.
• The Cybertruck is more expensive than many of its competitors.
• Some reservation holders want more range for the increased price.

There are 1.9 million pre-orders for the Cybertruck.  The wait time to fill the orders is more than 5 years.  Will people change their mind, of course they will.  Funny how no one bothered to quote Ford pre orders or Rivian pre orders for comparison.  I’m always amazed at how an innovative American company like Tesla seems to generate so much anti-success sentiment on this site.  Not Ford, not Chevrolet, not Cadillac or any other EV manufacturer, just Tesla.  

[Matt Harwood]

6 minutes ago, TerryB said:

There are 1.9 million pre-orders for the Cybertruck.  The wait time to fill the orders is more than 5 years.  Will people change their mind, of course they will.  Funny how no one bothered to quote Ford pre orders or Rivian pre orders for comparison.  I’m always amazed at how an innovative American company like Tesla seems to generate so much anti-success sentiment on this site.  Not Ford, not Chevrolet, not Cadillac or any other EV manufacturer, just Tesla.  

 

The people on this site hate ALL electric cars like they gave their mothers cancer. Tesla is simply the most visible with the most comically self-sabotaging CEO.

[7th Son]

1 minute ago, TerryB said:

 I’m always amazed at how an innovative American company like Tesla seems to generate so much anti-success sentiment on this site.  Not Ford, not Chevrolet, not Cadillac or any other EV manufacturer, just Tesla.  

Maybe it has something to do with the "notoriety" generated by it's flamboyant founder/owner and the nature of AACA members and others.

[TerryB]

Read the story of Henry Ford and see the parallels in behavior. Excess money breeds the notion that I know everything there is to know so I’ll tell you how the world should spin.  As “car enthusiasts” I would hope you would be able to separate personality from product.  I don’t cheer the guy but I am amazed at the innovation used to create the products he sells.

[maok]

Imho, the Cyber truck is the 6th revolutionary automobile in history,

 

Benz/Daimler--> Model T--->Airflow-->Citroen DS--->Prius--->Cyber truck

 

All these cars innovated design and technology of their era's.

[7th Son]

2 hours ago, TerryB said:

Read the story of Henry Ford and see the parallels in behavior. Excess money breeds the notion that I know everything there is to know so I’ll tell you how the world should spin.  As “car enthusiasts” I would hope you would be able to separate personality from product.  I don’t cheer the guy but I am amazed at the innovation used to create the products he sells.

 

I am very familiar with the life, times, politics and personality of Henry Ford, and agree with you on the parallels with Musk. As a "car enthusiast" and as a conscientious citizen and member of my community, I cannot separate a man from his deeds and actions. Geniuses have been responsible for some of the greatest disasters in history.  That having been said, I have not and do not support the activities or products of the Ford Motor Company nor, among many others, the ventures and adventures of Mr. Musk.

[Twisted Shifter]

2 hours ago, maok said:

Imho, the Cyber truck is the 6th revolutionary automobile in history,

 

Benz/Daimler--> Model T--->Airflow-->Citroen DS--->Prius--->Cyber truck

 

All these cars innovated design and technology of their era's.

 

With all due respect for your opinion, I offer this in rebuttal:

 

• Benz/Daimler ---- Agree, this vehicle set the pace for the introductory years of the automobile, but understandably included much of the current horse/buggy technology outside of incorporating an ICE into the package.
• Model T---------- Not revolutionary. There were many more technically advanced cars by the time the Model T arrived. The Ford Company incorporated many manufacturing and other innovations, but the T was neither advanced in design nor technology.
• Airflow ---------- To my knowledge, nothing technically advanced under the sheet metal. Design wise it was a failure and unacceptable to the buying public. It may be assumed to have influenced a more aerodynamic styling trend, but many other automobiles exist from the period that did it better and more pleasingly -- both foreign and domestic. It also preformed more or less like other contemporary sedans.
• Citroen DS------- Again, a car that may be considered revolutionary on a technical level, by some,  but the suspension innovations were never widely imitated and the styling was never appreciated or accepted to any great extent outside of France.
• Prius ------------- Yes a technical innovation, even revolutionary for a production automobile, but styled like a fish on casters and performed similarly.
• Cybertruck ------- To be decided. Could be Musk's Edsel...maybe a triumph. Lots of able vehicles competing out there. Time will tell.

In my book, to be truly an accepted standout, a car needs to revolutionary and innovative in technology including manufacturing and materials, engineering design, styling, and performance. In addition, it needs wide public acceptance, whether the average buyer can afford it or not.

 

To tell the truth, I can't name a car that meets or has met all the criteria. The bar is pretty high. Many have tried, and some have achieved limited or temporary success in their respective time periods.

Maybe someone can identify more close contenders.

 

 

[CarNucopia]

Interesting question about revolutionary automobiles. My definition would be vehicles that changed the trajectory of the industry.

 

The Model T definitely qualifies since it’s the car that made cars accessible to the masses.

 

At the other end of the timeline is the Tesla Model S. It’s the inflection point in the transition to EVs.

 

Between those two events, I’m hard pressed to think of many others. Maybe the Jeep CJ for getting people “offroad” and ultimately into SUVs?

 

The one car I think does belong on the “revolutionary” list is the Morris Mini. Virtually every econobox since its introduction has been based on its design with a transverse FWD powertrain and two-box shape.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by CarNucopia (see edit history)

[neil morse]

2 hours ago, Twisted Shifter said:

Airflow ---------- To my knowledge, nothing technically advanced under the sheet metal. Design wise it was a failure and unacceptable to the buying public. It may be assumed to have influenced a more aerodynamic styling trend, but many other automobiles exist from the period that did it better and more pleasingly -- both foreign and domestic. It also preformed more or less like other contemporary sedans.

I'm always hesitant to be critical of posts by other members of this great forum, but I really think you should study up a bit on the Airflow.  It incorporated many engineering innovations that were later adopted by the entire industry.  There's a long list, but probably the most prominent was moving the passenger compartment forward so that it was suspended between the front and rear axles, the first automobile that gave the passengers a more comfortable ride.  The standard design in that era still put the rear seat passengers directly over the rear axle where they got pounded by every bump in the road.  Within several years, all other manufacturers followed Chrysler's lead and moved the cab forward. 

[Twisted Shifter]

3 hours ago, neil morse said:

Within several years, all other manufacturers followed Chrysler's lead and moved the cab forward. 

OK, granted, but it was still ugly. 🙃

[maok]

6 hours ago, Twisted Shifter said:

 

With all due respect for your opinion, I offer this in rebuttal:

 

• Benz/Daimler ---- Agree, this vehicle set the pace for the introductory years of the automobile, but understandably included much of the current horse/buggy technology outside of incorporating an ICE into the package.
• Model T---------- Not revolutionary. There were many more technically advanced cars by the time the Model T arrived. The Ford Company incorporated many manufacturing and other innovations, but the T was neither advanced in design nor technology.
• Airflow ---------- To my knowledge, nothing technically advanced under the sheet metal. Design wise it was a failure and unacceptable to the buying public. It may be assumed to have influenced a more aerodynamic styling trend, but many other automobiles exist from the period that did it better and more pleasingly -- both foreign and domestic. It also preformed more or less like other contemporary sedans.
• Citroen DS------- Again, a car that may be considered revolutionary on a technical level, by some,  but the suspension innovations were never widely imitated and the styling was never appreciated or accepted to any great extent outside of France.
• Prius ------------- Yes a technical innovation, even revolutionary for a production automobile, but styled like a fish on casters and performed similarly.
• Cybertruck ------- To be decided. Could be Musk's Edsel...maybe a triumph. Lots of able vehicles competing out there. Time will tell.

In my book, to be truly an accepted standout, a car needs to revolutionary and innovative in technology including manufacturing and materials, engineering design, styling, and performance. In addition, it needs wide public acceptance, whether the average buyer can afford it or not.

 

To tell the truth, I can't name a car that meets or has met all the criteria. The bar is pretty high. Many have tried, and some have achieved limited or temporary success in their respective time periods.

Maybe someone can identify more close contenders.

 

 

 

It will always debated what is revolutionary, but you will find those models listed will be in most Top 10 (or 20) lists of cars by many car magazines, clubs etc.

 

Model T I believe ( I'm no expert) others can correct me, was first to introduce a single piece cylinder block which was to reduce the not only cost of manufacture but to improved production times.

 

Airflow - many, many advances, but obviously the designed using models for better aero dynamics influenced many designers from the mid '30 onwards. No doubt its not as aero dynamic as an 'Aptera'  (google it) but for the '30s it was revolutionary. Note, I own one, so I am bias.

 

Citroen DS - 1st production car in 1955 with regular modern style disc brakes, Jaguar was 1st in their racing cars in the early '50s. Chrysler had a disc brake system slightly earlier but was dropped shortly after, they were not a like modern disc brakes like the DS. Rolls and Mercedes did licence from Citroen the suspension system but they could not make it work as well as Citroen. Also, Citroen sold nearly 1.5 million DSs over a 20-year period, though not many in the USA. I am bias again, I own a '74 DS23 ie Pallas, most comfortable ever made.

 

Cyber truck - check out the youtube video I posted a few posts earlier regarding its revolutionary innovation under the skin. Tesla engineers explain how they overcome some of the challenges and why it looks the way it does. The 48volt networked communication system that controls all the sensors and devices that saves dozens of kilograms of copper under panels, which may change how car electric systems are designed by all manufacturers. And its steering.

 

IMO sales success is not an indicator of revolutionary design or innovation. There were many cars that sold millions but were simple with very little innovation to move technology forward.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by maok (see edit history)

[lhend50]

On 12/1/2023 at 8:01 AM, TAKerry said:

I have not studied Musk, have heard that he is an interesting person. No opinion either way at this point. As far as being inventive/adventurous I think with a lot of money any reasonably intelligent person could do the same. I have crazy ideas all of the time just no capitol to act upon, LOL. Edison, Ford and many more people have done the same.

There is a huge difference between having crazy ideas and actually understanding each phase of making those ideas become reality. Musk is deeply involved in ever step of making his ideas become reality. He is difficult in every way. The book Musk is very interesting. You get an idea of how brilliant he is and also how flawed he is. For years I felt he would become the Howard Hughes of the 21st century. He just may. What he can do in his head, often takes a team of engineers days to prove him right. He often makes major spit second decisions and takes responsibilty for there success or failure. Hopefully, he will keep some of his sanity and continue to develop amazing things.