Newbie with a 1927 Oldsmobile

[radarv]

Hello, new guy here. I have a 1927 Oldsmobile six. Looking for info and guidance on my 27’ olds. Finding info on the”net” searches is horrible. Hoping to be able to talk to the experts here. Shes rough but running and restorable. Thanks for letting me join. Any help is greatly appreciated. Scott. 

[George Smolinski]

How about posting photos? The more photos, the better.

[31 LaSalle]

1 hour ago, radarv said:

Hello, new guy here. I have a 1927 Oldsmobile six. Looking for info and guidance on my 27’ olds. Finding info on the”net” searches is horrible. Hoping to be able to talk to the experts here. Shes rough but running and restorable. Thanks for letting me join. Any help is greatly appreciated. Scott. 

Hi radarv  you have come to the right place for guidance lot of good advice and help on this site

good luck with your car

[alsancle]

Start a thread on the car here:

 

https://forums.aaca.org/forum/86-our-cars-restoration-projects/

 

Include lots of photos to get people interested.   Ask specific questions (with photos when appropriate).   The more info you include in your questions the better shot at a decent response.

[Dandy Dave]

Welcome Aboard Matey. Yes, You will find plenty of support here. Stick around. 🙂

[rocketraider]

In addition to AACA the NAOC is a good resource for prewar Oldsmobile.

 

https://www.antiqueolds.org/model-year-advisors-1

[28 Chrysler]

Welcome

What info do you need?

[radarv]

Well for starters. I was wondering what the polarity for the electrical system is? I assume it’s 6v positive ground. I saw someplace that some GM cars of that vintage were negative ground. Thanks for the reply 

[28 Chrysler]

A way to tell is when anything is turned on without the engine running the meter should show a discharge. If the polarity is backwards it would show a charge. 

[radarv]

That was my thought. Car running it shows discharge. I haven’t looked into the generator or cut out yet. But thought it was odd. Didn’t want to cook anything. I know the British cars/ motorcycles/& some tractors even on 12v are backwards polarity to our system here. 

[wayne sheldon]

38 minutes ago, 28 Chrysler said:

A way to tell is when anything is turned on without the engine running the meter should show a discharge. If the polarity is backwards it would show a charge. 

 

Unless some "mechanic" in the past had switched the wires around? It was a common practice back in the 1930s through the 1950s for mechanics to switch wiring for some silly convenience in their mind.

The history of automotive miswiring is full of messed up cars.

I don't have a ready reference, nor do I know offhand which way Oldsmobile was wired in 1927. However, my general understanding has always been that General Motors cars were usually negative ground. There were exceptions.

Ford's (NOT General motors!) model T was negative ground from the factory from the beginning of the starter/generator option in 1919 until the end of production in 1927. Then for the model A for 1928, Ford switched to positive ground and stayed there until the mid 1950s. Many hundreds of model T Fords over the years were switched to positive ground because local mechanics "assumed" the model T would have been wired the same as the model A.  Ford was considered by many local mechanics to be the odd one out, with GM and Chrysler usually being negative ground. There was a sometimes not so friendly rivalry between "Ford" mechanics and other mechanics over grounding preferences. Local mechanics often would repolarize the generator and swap the grounding (and ammeter!) to fit their preference rather than leave them how their factory made them.

High level electrical engineers would often debate about which grounding was actually better! I would often just lean back and shake my head at the whole thing.

 

You should be able to find a wiring diagram for the car that should have that detail on it. But I don't have one, and Mr Google and I don't get along very well.

[radarv]

Thanks. Me and mr Google don’t get along well either. Lol. Looking for generator on there and get sent to underwear or cookware. Its not right. 

[pmhowe]

5 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

However, my general understanding has always been that General Motors cars were usually negative ground. There were exceptions.

"There were Exceptions". Duly noted. For example, the 1935 Cadillac had a positive ground. Just makes more fun for us folks trying to put things back together correctly. I wonder why Cadillac Motors liked positive ground.

Phil

[radarv]

16 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

How about posting photos? The more photos, the better.

Here you are. More as I get a chance. 

[Dandy Dave]

Nice. Get her running and driving before you even think of restoring the body. And do not take it completely apart unless you have plenty of money to get it completely done. 

[chistech]

Mark Santos of the NAOC should be able to help you out with information. You will find there is little literature on Olds and even fewer people who truthfully know them. The people who know the post war Oldsmobiles in most cases know little to nothing about pre war Olds. Those who know the pre war cars usually know a specific year or two. Olds was quietly making technological advances about every three to four months of every year especially in pre war cars and it’s very hard to thoroughly know about more than a year or two. The olds division designed and developed lots of GMs firsts but often never got the credit. I researched my own 1932 model year for three years using what was out there published, original factory bulletins, and original meeting minutes.  32 Oldsmobile was the first production car with a fully automatic choke system by Stromberg. Once proven on the Olds, cars like Packards, Pierce’s, and others got them. Many believe it was those marques that developed the auto choke and many of the owners incorrectly give their car brand the credit. After all, how could little old Oldsmobile design anything. It’s not like they designed and marketed the first automatic transmission right????  
     GM wasn’t a big fan of Oldsmobile with the other divisions, especially Chevy, pretty much hated them and prevented some Oldsmobile designs from ever coming to fruition. Look up the Olds F-88 vs. the Corvette and what the GM brass made Oldsmobile do at the behest of Chevrolet. There’s still a big argument about who came out with the first production turbocharged car. Chevy guys say the Corvair was first and the Olds guys say the Jetfire was. When you look at original factory documents, the Olds Jetfire shows about a two week earlier start of production date than the Corvair but the argument continues. I probably just started the debate again!

[radarv]

Very interesting. I found that it’s very hard to find much on the pre war olds as well. Especially pre 28 on the internet. There’s some but very little. According to everything I’ve read, my car was a copy of the Buick standard six. I see some similarities but it is very different in the power train. Especially the engine. 

[wayne sheldon]

For whatever it is worth? A close friend many years ago had a 1927 Oldsmobile four-door sedan. I know that it was the first model Oldsmobile to use the new three layer chrome plating system. If I recall correctly, it was the first GM model to do so, and one of the first models of any major manufacturer of automobiles to use the new chrome process. There had been a very few companies a few years earlier that tried chrome plating, but the earlier process result was that it flaked away after about a year.

 

I guess I am one of the many that know a little bit about a couple years of prewar Oldsmobiles? (I know a lot more about Curved Dash Oldsmobiles and a bit about other brass era Oldsmobiles.)

[jensenracing77]

On 9/8/2023 at 8:08 AM, chistech said:

     GM wasn’t a big fan of Oldsmobile with the other divisions, especially Chevy, pretty much hated them and prevented some Oldsmobile designs from ever coming to fruition. Look up the Olds F-88 vs. the Corvette and what the GM brass made Oldsmobile do at the behest of Chevrolet. There’s still a big argument about who came out with the first production turbocharged car. Chevy guys say the Corvair was first and the Olds guys say the Jetfire was. When you look at original factory documents, the Olds Jetfire shows about a two week earlier start of production date than the Corvair but the argument continues. I probably just started the debate again!

BINGO

[jensenracing77]

My wife and I would like to find a pre war Oldsmobile eventually. I know of a 27 Olds that I would like to buy if the guy ever sells it but not sure we could afford it if he ever does. 

[chistech]

On 9/8/2023 at 5:33 PM, wayne sheldon said:

For whatever it is worth? A close friend many years ago had a 1927 Oldsmobile four-door sedan. I know that it was the first model Oldsmobile to use the new three layer chrome plating system. If I recall correctly, it was the first GM model to do so, and one of the first models of any major manufacturer of automobiles to use the new chrome process. There had been a very few companies a few years earlier that tried chrome plating, but the earlier process result was that it flaked away after about a year.

 

I guess I am one of the many that know a little bit about a couple years of prewar Oldsmobiles? (I know a lot more about Curved Dash Oldsmobiles and a bit about other brass era Oldsmobiles.)

It was actually 1926 when Olds became the first to offer chrome trim. I believe they were the first in '27 to offer a chrome radiator shroud. I could be wrong but I don't believe they used the three step process we now use today, (copper, nickel, chrome) but instead perfected the flash chroming process of chroming directly onto bare steel. It wasn't really perfected though as an old joke was if you "took a leak" on an Olds, all the chrome would instantly rust! I know my own 32 was only flashed (one step)chromed and all the chrome rusted quite easily.

[wayne sheldon]

Thank you chistech for the clarification!

[Lowo]

Welcome on board 

[radarv]

Update, I did find and purchase a reprint factory repair manual. My car is in fact 6volt negative ground system. Which would explain a few things. Someone sometime in the past had re placed the coil. It’s wired backwards. Positive to points.instead of negative to points. Amp gauge was always showing discharge while running. Circuit breaker under dash intermittently operational. Slowly I’m sorting it out and learning. Thanks for the advice and help so far. It’s greatly appreciated. 

[chistech]

Didn’t you post this on Facebook with the coil arcing? So it was a negative ground issue it seems.

[JV Puleo]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:32 AM, radarv said:

...Finding info on the”net” searches is horrible.

I think many of us would agree that the internet is a poor source of reliable information. You'd be best served by doing your own research and relying on others, like Christech, who have done the same. Not only is there very little on the net, there is absolutely no way to vet what there is. Anyone can post the most idiotic opinions expressed as facts...and generally the more idiotic, the more the poster acts as if they have all the answers.

 

Original literature is the right place to start. You might also do a google books search on periodicals to turn up period technical discussions in the trade magazines. Good information is out there but you have to dig for it. The internet is probably a good source for a high school term paper but beyond that it's a  very "iffy" proposition.