Please help identify this Vintage Cabriolet

[Jim Fenton]

Hoping someone can identify the year, make & model of this Vintage Cabriolet. If it helps to identify the year; pictured here is my Grandfather who according to my Mom was a Chauffer back in the day for a prominent family with the US Rubber Corp. in Detroit, MI. He was born in 1884 and I “guestimate” his age here at approximately 50 so if the car was new that would put the year in the early-mid 30’s. I have no clue of the make or model and unfortunately this is the only photo of the car that I have.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[dibarlaw]

I see folds in the hood to indicate Packard as well as the hub cap on the rear wire wheel. This being a convertible sedan. The Packard experts can chime in about year (my guess is 1930 or 1931)/series and coach maker.

 Could be closed to WWII vintage photo as the tires are mismatched and the sidemount black wall spare is worn out. 

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, Jim Fenton said:

Hoping someone can identify the year, make & model of this Vintage Cabriolet. If it helps to identify the year; pictured here is my Grandfather who according to my Mom was a Chauffer back in the day for a prominent family with the US Rubber Corp. in Detroit, MI. He was born in 1884 and I “guestimate” his age here at approximately 50 so if the car was new that would put the year in the early-mid 30’s. I have no clue of the make or model and unfortunately this is the only photo of the car that I have.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Your grandfather got to drive one of the great Classic Packards!  It was a 1929 Packard Deluxe Eight Model 645 convertible sedan by Dietrich, Style 1602, priced $6,775 when a basic Ford Model A was $525.  

[Leif Holmberg]

Or perhaps a 1930 like this one ?  https://bid.goodingco.com/lots/view/1-427SWF/1930-packard-deluxe-eight-745-convertible-sedan

[TerryB]

Seems odd that a car belonging to a US Rubber exec would have mismatched and bald tires.  May have been WWII as mentioned or the car was at the end of its use.

[Jim Fenton]

8 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

I see folds in the hood to indicate Packard as well as the hub cap on the rear wire wheel. This being a convertible sedan. The Packard experts can chime in about year (my guess is 1930 or 1931)/series and coach maker.

 Could be closed to WWII vintage photo as the tires are mismatched and the sidemount black wall spare is worn out. 

Thank you sir for your input & keen observation. I did not pick up on the tires being mismatched and the spare being worn out.

[Jim Fenton]

8 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Your grandfather got to drive one of the great Classic Packards!  It was a 1929 Packard Deluxe Eight Model 645 convertible sedan by Dietrich, Style 1602, priced $6,775 when a basic Ford Model A was $525.  

WOW, that's precisely the detail I was looking for. Thank you so much for taking the time to provide your expertise on this inquiry. It is much appreciated!

[Jim Fenton]

3 hours ago, TerryB said:

Seems odd that a car belonging to a US Rubber exec would have mismatched and bald tires.  May have been WWII as mentioned or the car was at the end of its use.

Good point. As I mentioned in my response to the other gentleman I never noticed the tire issue. I wish now that I had paid more attention to the family history back when I had the chance. Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.

[TerryB]

I’m with you on the family history thing.  I have a whole list of questions I would ask.

[Barney Eaton]

Don't dispute that it is a  Packard but I don't see the common hex indent in the hub caps

[Kean Thompson]

Definitely a 1929 1602 Dietrich Convertible sedan - not 1930 (Cowl rather than fender lamps). A virtually identical body was available in 1930 - as found on the Gooding car, a 745 with the very long front fenders. 

By the way, the wire wheel hubcaps don't feature the traditional hex - rather a circle as in this photo. 

[Jim Fenton]

I’m new to this forum so I’m not sure if it’s permitted to ask another follow-on question about the same car but here goes.

 

Now that a few of you fellas caught that tire detail I missed (bald spare & tires mis-matched) I got to looking closer at the car for other things. I noticed that there’s a rear-view mirror strapped to the top of the spare tire.

 

The only reference I had was the link provided by member Leif Holmberg of the 1930 Packard Deluxe Eight 745 Convertible Sedan which shows both spare tires wrapped with Chrome Covers with the mirrors attached to the covers.

 

So safe to assume that the covers are missing from the spare tires on this particular vehicle and someone jury rigged the mirror onto the spare tire or is this a factory mounting for this year and there was an upgrade in 1930?

 

I know this is minor so just curious. Thanks again everyone!

[8E45E]

17 hours ago, TerryB said:

Seems odd that a car belonging to a US Rubber exec would have mismatched and bald tires.  May have been WWII as mentioned or the car was at the end of its use.

Maybe he's testing competitor's tires.

 

Craig

[arcticbuicks]

maybe the chauffer was out with the car with his buds burning rubber racing 32 fords  and leaving blackies when the owners were away ?.........and then only found a whitewall to replace the blown back tire

[61polara]

If this photo is from the mid to late 1930's, this was an old car by then.  Likely, the car was originally delivered with black wall tires, which were rotated to the ground as the service tire wore out.  Through the years the spare wheel covers were eliminated and the car later updated with white wall tires.  Many times wealthy owners would send older cars to their summer home for use while they were on location.  Possibly traveling to the summer home (or camp) by train.  The house looks like it would fit this story line.

[arcticbuicks]

yes so many possibilities.......and odd for a high end car to have mismatch tires...........im not sure about this year of photo.......but during and between wars,certain tire sizes were very hard to find also,i heard of some cars being put on blocks due to no available tires and then left as they aged out 

[Kean Thompson]

If there are any owners of one of these 645 convertible sedans out there, I'd love to hear from them. I know it's a tough ask but... you never know.

[Gunsmoke]

Jim Fenton, you asked about spare tire covers and spare mounted mirrors for the OP Packard. In this period, many manufacturers offered spare wheel covers as an option/accessory (for both side-mounts and rear spares), either customer or dealer or factory installed, in both canvas cloth and in painted steel and chromed. Spare tire mounted mirrors were similarly an option/accessory, dealer, customer or factory installed. In some high-end models, these may have even been standard equipment. I've seen factory Packard photos with them and without them. Regardless, as time passed and such cars aged into a second or third owner, spare tire covers were often discarded due to damage, nuisance during a tire change, or maybe in some cases even stolen. Similarly the mirrors could be affixed to a tire with cover, or just the bare spare (they were secured typically by simple leather straps). These mirrors were largely cosmetic, and did not give a very good view to rear/side, as they typically were small diameter, far from the driver, difficult to adjust to correct angle, and vibrated a lot. So they often got discarded as cars aged. So to answer your question, your Dad's driver may have had some of these accessories when brand new but shed them by the time the picture was taken. The mirror (with chain straps) appears perhaps after market, car was about 10-12 years old in photo.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[Jim Fenton]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:39 PM, Gunsmoke said:

Jim Fenton, you asked about spare tire covers and spare mounted mirrors for the OP Packard. In this period, many manufacturers offered spare wheel covers as an option/accessory (for both side-mounts and rear spares), either customer or dealer or factory installed, in both canvas cloth and in painted steel and chromed. Spare tire mounted mirrors were similarly an option/accessory, dealer, customer or factory installed. In some high-end models, these may have even been standard equipment. I've seen factory Packard photos with them and without them. Regardless, as time passed and such cars aged into a second or third owner, spare tire covers were often discarded due to damage, nuisance during a tire change, or maybe in some cases even stolen. Similarly the mirrors could be affixed to a tire with cover, or just the bare spare (they were secured typically by simple leather straps). These mirrors were largely cosmetic, and did not give a very good view to rear/side, as they typically were small diameter, far from the driver, difficult to adjust to correct angle, and vibrated a lot. So they often got discarded as cars aged. So to answer your question, your Dad's driver may have had some of these accessories when brand new but shed them by the time the picture was taken. The mirror (with chain straps) appears perhaps after market, car was about 10-12 years old in photo.

Thank you so much for your input on my RV Mirror inquiry associated with this car. Your expertise and valued detail here along with similar previous comments from other members regarding the tires, etc. actually puts the final stamp on the fact that this photo is very likely older than I assumed.

 

The only solid detail I had to go on in an effort to date the photo was my grandfather’s age. He was born in 1884 and guessing at his age in this photo my wife and I both agreed that he looked to be 45-50 years old which would put the date of the photo in the early to mid-30’s.

 

After seeing the previous comments regarding the possibility that the mismatched tires, bald spare, etc. might be a rubber shortage or restriction issue associated with the war I did a bit of a deep dive into that history on-line. I knew that we didn’t officially enter the war until the attack on Pearl Harbor in 41’ but I wasn’t sure about our involvement prior to 41’.

 

Sure enough, according to what I read the US started to help our Allies with certain commodities following the beginning of the war when Germany attacked Poland in 1939. Along with certain metals, etc. one of those commodities in demand was rubber which apparently mainly went to the UK. All this fits the timeline now suggested that the car was 10-12 years old in the photo as you said.  

 

Again, Mega-Thanks to you Gunsmoke for your input! Apologize for the novel – JF.

[Walt G]

I have just about all the accessory catalogs that Packard produced and gave to the dealerships to show what the factory thought was the best equipment for their cars. 1920 to 1942.

Both cloth and metal tire covers were offered for extra cost, not all the same for each year.  Mirrors were the same, possibly different to use - depending upon a metal or cloth cover.  Yes those mirrors are small BUT I have a touring car with them fitted and they are way better then no mirror at all.  Not just useless decorations.

[Mark Gregush]

On 6/3/2023 at 1:26 PM, TerryB said:

Seems odd that a car belonging to a US Rubber exec would have mismatched and bald tires.  May have been WWII as mentioned or the car was at the end of its use.

If was during WW2, could have doing their part for the war effort.