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Just what Model Buick is this???


John Nelson

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I recently bought a Buick Phaeton Touring Car that was advertised as a 1924 Buick Master Six. I was then told it must be a Standard Six because Buick didn’t make the Master Six until 1925. This car has a 120” wheelbase measured from the center of the front axle to the center of the rear axle. It is a 4 door and the outside door handles are sort of a stirrup shape. The horn is set into the firewall with the bell in the engine compartment but the actuating knob in the passenger compartment. What is it??? 

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If it is a 1924 and the wheelbase is 120  it is a series 24-40.   In '24 there was the three series and they were the 24-30 which was a 4 cylinder with a 109 wheelbase.

The 24-30 with a 6 cylinder and a 120 inch wheelbase and the series 24-50  with a 6 cylinder and a 128 inch wheelbase.  

The 24 series touring would be a 24-45 they made 48,912 and the price was $1,295

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Its a 24-45 with outside door handles from a closed car.  The series name Master was not used until 1925 when a smaller series 6 cylinder "Standard" was introduced and the larger models on 120" & 128" wheelbases were then renamed Master to differentiate.    The door handles are likely the result of an older restoration and good usable T door handles could not be located. I have seen those stirrup shaped outside handles made from brass so they would have survived when the original did not.  Below is a photo of a new reproduction.   Post some more photos of the car and we can help identify other possible incorrect parts if there are any.  Parts made from potmetal like door handles and instruments cracked and broke due to bad metallurgy of the era, so a replacement for those parts had to be found to keep the car operating. 

Kevin 

24-45.jpeg

vintageandclassicreproductions.com.BUI-003.jpg

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Old timers would have referred to it as a Master even though technically they were called that in 25. I know my Father referred to any big 6 Buick as a Master.

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Buick specifications 1904 to 1929

 

Year Prod
Total
Model
Designation
Wheel
base
Inches
Weight
Min/Max
Tire
Size
Wheel
Bolt
Pattern
Valve
Location
Bore
and
Stroke
Piston
Dis
place
ment
Cubic
Inches
Com
pres
sion
Ratio
(Stan
dard)
Maximum
Brake
H.P.
@
R.P.M.
Spark
Plug
Size
Spark
Plug
Gap
Point
Gap
Firing
Order
Ignition
Timing
BTDC
or
Mark
Grnd
+/-
Volts
1904 27 2 cyl B Early 83 1675 28x3 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 159 4.5 15 @ 1200 1/2" NPT .031-.035   12    
8 2 cyl B Late 83 1700 30x3.5 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 159 4.5 22 @ 1230 1/2" NPT .031-.035   12    
1905 750 2 cyl C Touring 87 1850 30x3.5 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 159 4.5 22 @ 1200 1/2" NPT .031-.035   12    
1906 1,207
193
2 cyl F Touring
G Roadster
87 1850
1800
30x3.5 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 159 4.5 22 @ 1200 1/2" NPT .031-.035   12    
1907 3,362
535
2 cyl F Touring
G Roadster
87 1850
1800
30x3.5 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 159 4.5 22 @ 1200 1/2" NPT .031-.035   12    
523
36
4 cyl D Touring
H Touring
102.5 2250 32x4 Hub T Head 4.25 x 4.5 255 4.5 30 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
69
13
4 cyl S Roadster
K Roadster
106.5 2000 32x4 Hub T Head 4.25 x 4.5 255 4.5 30 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1908 4,002 4 cyl 10 Roadster 88 2000 30x3 Hub Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
3,281
219
2 cyl F Touring
G Roadster
92 1850
1800
30x3.5 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 159 4.5 22 @ 1200 1/2" NPT .031-.035   12    
543 4 cyl D Touring 102.5 2250 32x4 Hub T Head 4.25 x 4.5 255 4.5 30 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
373 4 cyl S Roadster 106.5 2000 32x4 Hub T Head 4.25 x 4.5 255 4.5 30 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
402 4 cyl 5 Touring 108 3700 32x4 Hub T Head 4.625 x 5 336 4.5 40 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1909 3,856
144
2 cyl F Touring
G Runabout
92 1850
1800
30x3.5 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 159 4.5 22 @ 1200 1/2" NPT .031-.035   12    
8,100 4 cyl 10 92.5 2250 32x4 Hub In Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
497 4 cyl 16 Roadster 112 2620 34x4 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 318 4.5 32.4 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
2,003 4 cyl 17 Touring 112.5 2000 34x4 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 318 4.5 32.4 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
6 4 cyl 6A Roadster 113 3700 32x4 Hub T Head 4.625 x 5 336 4.5 40 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1910 4,000 2 cyl F Touring 92 1850 30x3.5 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 159 4.5 22 @ 1200 1/2" NPT .031-.035   12    
10,998 4 cyl 10 92.5 1730 30x3 Hub In Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
4,000 4 cyl 19 Touring 105 2790 32x4 Hub T Head 4.25 x 5 255 4.5 28.9 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
2,252 4 cyl 16 112 2620 34x4 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 318 4.5 32.4 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
6,002
40
4 cyl 17 Touring
41 Limo
112.5 2790
3400
34x4
36x4.5
Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 318 4.5 32.4 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
85 4 cyl 7 Touring 122 3700 36x4 Hub T Head 4.625 x 5 336 4.5 40 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1911 3,300 2 cyl 14 Roadster 79 1500 30x3 Hub In Head 4.5 x 4 127 4.5 14.2 1/2" NPT .031-.035   12    
1,150 4 cyl 32 Roadster 89 1695 30x3.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1,000 4 cyl 26 Roadster 100 2100 32x3.5 Hub In Head 4 x 4 201 4.5 25.6 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
2,000 4 cyl 33 Touring 100 1855 30x3.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
3,000 4 cyl 27 Touring 106 2280 32x3.5 Hub In Head 4 x 4 201 4.5 25.6 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
3,000 4 cyl 21 110 2610 34x4 Hub T Head 4.25 x 5 255 4.5 28.9 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
27 4 cyl 41 Limo 112.5 3400 36x4.5 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 318 4.5 32.4 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
153
905
4 cyl 38 Roadster
39 Touring
116 2650
3225
36x4 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 318 4.5 32.4 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1912 1,400 4 cyl 34 Roadster 90.75 1875 30x3.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
6,050
1,600
4 cyl 35 Touring
36 Roadster
101.75 2100
1950
32x3.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
2,500
6,000
4 cyl 28 Roadster
29 Touring
108 2375
2600
34x3.5 Hub In Head 4 x 4 201 4.5 25.6 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1501 4 cyl 43 Touring 116 3360 36x4 Hub In Head 4.5 x 5 318 4.5 48 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1913 2,850
8,150
4 cyl 24 Roadster
25 Touring
105 2130
2335
32x3.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
3,500
10,000
4 cyl 30 Roadster
31 Touring
108 2480
2600
34x3.5 Hub In Head 4 x 4 201 4.5 25.6 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1,506 4 cyl 40 Touring 115 3360 36x4 Hub In Head 4.25 x 4.5 255 4.5 28.9 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243    
1914 3,126/239
13,446/1,544
4 cyl B-24 Roadster
B-25 Touring
105 2200
2400
32x3.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243   -6
2,550
9,050
50
4 cyl B-36 Roadster
B-37 Touring
B-38 Coupe
112 2726 34x4 Hub In Head 3.75 x 5 221 4.5 35 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243   -6
2,045 6 cyl B-55 Touring 130 3664 36x4.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 5 331 4.5 48 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1915 3,256/186
19,080/931
4 cyl C-24 Roadster
C-25 Touring
106 2200
2334
32x3.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 3.75 165 4.5 22.5 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243   -6
2,849
12,450
4 cyl C-36 Roadster
C-37 Touring
112 2795
2726
34x4 Hub In Head 3.75 x 5 221 4.5 37 1/2" NPT .031-.035 .025-.030 1243   -6
352
3,449
6 cyl C-54 Roadster
C-55 Touring
130 3664 36x4.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 5 331 4.5 55 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1916 12,978/541
73,827/4,741
1,443
881
6 cyl D-44 Roadster
D-45 Touring
D-46 Coupe
D-47 Sedan
115 2660
2760
2900
3130
34x4 Hub In Head 3.25 x 4.5 225 4.5 45 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1,194
9,866
6 cyl D-54 Roadster
D-55 Touring
130 3400
3664
36x4.5 Hub In Head 3.75 x 5 331 4.5 55 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1917 2,292/238
20,126/1,097
4 cyl D-34 Roadster
D-35 Touring
106 1900
2100
31x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.75 170 4.5 35 18mm .025-.030 .020 1243 O Mark -6
4,366/100
25,371/1,371
485
132
6 cyl D-44 Roadster
D-45 Touring
D-46 Coupe
D-47 Sedan
115 2660
2760
2900
3130
34x4 Hub In Head 3.25 x 4.5 225 4.5 45 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
10,505 6 cyl E-49 Touring 124 3075 34x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6

1918
3,800/172
27,125/1,190
700
4 cyl E-34 Roadster
E-35 Touring
E-37 Coupe
106 1900
2100
2420
31x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.75 170 4.5 35 18mm .025-.030 .020 1243 O Mark -6
10,391/275
58,971/3,035
2,965
463
6 cyl E-44 Roadster
E-45 Touring
E-46 Coupe
E-47 Sedan
118 2750
2750
2965
2965
34x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
5,643
987
6 cyl E-49 Touring
E-50 Sedan
124 3075
3520
34x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1919 7,839/176
44,589/2,595
3,971
501
6 cyl H-44 Roadster
H-45 Touring
H-46 Coupe
H-47 Sedan
118 2813
2950
3100
3296
33x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
6,795
531
6 cyl H-49 Touring
H-50 Sedan
124 3115
3736
34x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1920 19,000/200
85,245/7,400
6,503
2,252
6 cyl K-44 Roadster
K-45 Touring
K-46 Coupe
K-47 Sedan
118 2813
2950
3100
3296
33x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
16,801/1,100
1,499
6 cyl K-49 Touring
K-50 Sedan
124 3175
3736
34x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1921 7,236/56
31,877/1,192
4,063
2,252
6 cyl 21-44 Roadster
21-45 Touring
21-46 Coupe
21-47 Sedan
118 2845
2972
3137
3397
34x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
2,606
6,424/366
1,460
6 cyl 21-48 Coupe
21-49 Touring
21-50 Sedan
124 3397
3272
3612
34x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1922 5,583/5
23,521/29
2,225
3,118
4 cyl 22-34 Roadster
22-35 Touring
22-36 Coupe
22-37 Sedan
109 2310
2380
2560
2780
31x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.75 170 4.5 40 18mm .025-.030 .020 1243 O Mark -6
7,666/9
34,433/499
2,293
4,878
6 cyl 22-44 Roadster
22-45 Touring
22-46 Coupe
22-47 Sedan
118 2285
3005
3235
3425
33x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
8,903
6,714/71
4,201
178
6 cyl 22-48 Coupe
22-49 Touring
22-50 Sedan
22-50L Limo
124 3430
3280
3615
3615
34x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
2,562
900
6 cyl 22-54 Roadster
22-55 Touring
124 3180
3270
32x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1923 5,768/8
36,935/7,004
7,004
8,885/1
6,025
1,971
4 cyl 23-34 Roadster
23-35 Touring
23-36 Coupe
23-37 Sedan
23-38 Touring Sedan
23-39 Roadster
109 2415
2520
2745
2875
2750
2445
31x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.75 170 4.5 40 18mm .025-.030 .020 1243 O Mark -6
8,719
6,488/3
45,277/47
7,358
6 cyl 23-41 Touring Sedan
23-44 Roadster
23-45 Touring
23-47 Sedan
118 3380
2940
3085
3475
32x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
10,847
5,906/25
10,279/1
6 cyl 23-48 Coupe
23-49 Touring
23-50 Sedan
124 3440
3290
3670
33x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
4,501
12,857
6 cyl 23-54 Roadster
23-55 Touring
124 3180
3330
32x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1924 5,479
4,296
21,857/6,087
6,563
4 cyl 24-33 Coupe
24-34 Roadster
24-35 Touring
24-37 Sedan
109 2845
2576
2680
2955
31x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.75 170 4.5 40 18mm .025-.030 .020 1243 O Mark -6
14,094
9,700
48,912
10,377
6 cyl 24-41 Touring Sedan
24-44 Roadster
24-45 Touring
24-47 Sedan
120 3675
3300
3455
3845
32x4 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.75 255 4.5 70 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
13,009
7,224
9,561
713
4991
1,938
1,107
4,111
25
6 cyl 24-48 Coupe
24-49 Touring
24-50 Sedan
24-50L Limo
24-51 Touring Sedan
24-54 Roadster
24-54C Club Coupe
24-55 Touring
24-57 Town Car
128 3770
3645
4020
3860
3940
3470
3765
3605
3860
32x4.5 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.5 242 4.5 60 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1925 81,297/9412 Standard 6 25-20 114.3 2750/3185 5.00x22 Hub In Head 3 x 4.5 191 4.5 50 @ 2800 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
46,228 Master 6 25-40 120 3285/3850 6.00x22 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.75 255 4.5 70 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
19,758 Master 6 25-50 128 3485/4030 6.00x22 Hub In Head 3.375 x 4.75 255 4.5 70 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1926 109,040 Standard 6 26-20 114.5 2865/3210 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.125 x 4.5 207 4.5 60 @ 2800 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
90,664 Master 6 26-40 120 3380/3845 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.5 x 4.75 274 4.5 75 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
41,792 Master 6 26-50 128 3580/4040 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.5 x 4.75 274 4.5 75 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1927 122,130 Standard 6 27-20 114.5 2990/3305 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.125 x 4.5 207 4.5 60 @ 2800 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
70,585 Master 6 27-40 120 3750/3870 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.5 x 4.75 274 4.5 75 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
48,687 Master 6 27-50 128 3655/4050 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.5 x 4.75 274 4.5 75 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1928 126,820 Standard 6 28-20 114.5 3090/3400 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.125 x 4.5 207 4.5 60 @ 2800 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
59,599 Master 6 28-40 120 3835/3930 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.5 x 4.75 274 4.5 75 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
42,810 Master 6 28-50 128 3655/4085 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.5 x 4.75 274 4.5 75 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
1929 84,119 Series 116 6 29-20 116 3330/3630 30x5.50 Hub In Head 3.3125 x 4.625 239.1 4.3 75 @ 2800 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
61,893 Series 121 6 29-40 121 3795/4180 30x6.5 Hub In Head 3.625 x 5 309.6 4.3 94 @ 2800 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
26,390 Series 129 6 29-50 128 3655/4085 6.00x21 Hub In Head 3.625 x 5 309.6 4.3 94 @ 2800 18mm .025-.030 .020 153624 O Mark -6
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  • 2 weeks later...

Larry,

first - I apologize for my drool and slobber on your car at Gettysburg. I tried - albeit half heartedly- to find you Saturday last . 
Send your number to me. I’d like to chat and get your thoughts. 
troberts2459@atlanticbb.net.

 

tom

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20 hours ago, tcslr said:

Larry,

first - I apologize for my drool and slobber on your car at Gettysburg. I tried - albeit half heartedly- to find you Saturday last . 
Send your number to me. I’d like to chat and get your thoughts. 
troberts2459@atlanticbb.net.

 

tom

Yes Tom I was sorry we did not connect. We were only there with Mark and Kathy Kikta on Friday as we had a family event planned for Saturday in Bedford. I saw some of the photos posted from the Saturday show and saw your 1931.. "Drat.... missed him again".

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13 hours ago, Leif Holmberg said:

When looking at Morgan Wrights Buick list  1904-1929 the spark plug size from 1915-1916 to 1929  are 18mm? All my 1920s Buick has 7/8" spark plug size on the threads. What did that 18mm stand for?

 

It was a standard size in old cars 7/8 18 was 7/8 inch diameter and 18 mm thread size. Most compression testers are 14 mm thread size so everybody has one of these from Snyders to check compression.

 

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/product.htm?pid=976380&cat=0

 

The drive socket size was 1  1/8 for the old Titan spark plugs and the Snyders adapter. Most modern plugs for this 7/8 -18 mm size spark plug have a 15/16 socket size.

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The plugs for the Buick 6 up untill the detatachable head in 1924. Was a 7/8" dia X 18 thread per inch with a 1 1/8" hex. From the gasket shoulder to the electrode gap was usually 1". 

1923AC1-Copy.jpg.f8504404a5549484d02bb368d19339c7.jpg

1924-1928 was a 7/8" dia. X 18 Thread per inch with a 7/8" hex. Same "reach" measured from the gasket shoulder was about an inch.

1925Spark(2).jpg.643acf7151ec07830921042683744a0e.jpg   1925Spark.jpg.a7539b613d0c489f31ea653815340c0f.jpg

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well after a thorough evaluation of my Buick I’ve decided that the best course of action is to go with a frame off restoration of the car. Fortunately I have a nice heated shop and have done a frame off on an MGA before so I’m not going into it blindly. The car had been so heavily painted with lacquer that stripping it is the only viable option, after pulling all the freeze plugs the engine has heavy rust products throughout the cooling jacket and there is heavy sludge in the oil system. It’s 99 years old and it’s better to do it right rather than do it piecemeal so that’s the way I’m going to proceed. I am very grateful for all the help and information I’ve gotten so far and I’m sure I’ll be needing in the course of this restoration.    John Nelson

2D455C8B-1816-46BA-9D40-379048774895.jpeg

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