L29 Cord thoughts

[alsancle]

8 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

AJ, I was looking into some of those Coachbuilt examples you posted.  The Towncar with the Murphy body received quite a bit of acclaim.  Here is another photo of it with the original owner Actress Dolores Del Rio.  There is mention of it being on a longer wheelbase.  This photo may represent distortion, but I believe it based on this photo.  I think 137.5 was the standard wheelbase.  Anyone know what the longer ones were?

 

 

152 1/2

[edinmass]

 

I have seen the car in person. There are two if memory serves me. They are huge……probably 147-152 inches. With stunning Murphy coachwork, they are indeed special cars. Last one that sold at public auction smashed all estimates…..by double or triple. I would expect that the town cars feel under powered unless geared to the basement. For some reason I’m thinking it was a Franklin Hershey design. I’m certain others will chime in with exact details.

[John Bloom]

4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

I have seen the car in person. There are two if memory serves me. They are huge……probably 147-152 inches. With stunning Murphy coachwork, they are indeed special cars. Last one that sold at public auction smashed all estimates…..by double or triple. I would expect that the town cars feel under powered unless geared to the basement. For some reason I’m thinking it was a Franklin Hershey design. I’m certain others will chime in with exact details.

Very nice that you have seen it in person. There is nothing shy about that car. 
 

I’d like to find some photos of the interior. I’ll do some digging and searching for those and post them if I have any success. If others know of any, please go ahead share them with us.

[edinmass]

 

Four were built. Three on a 152.5 inch chassis, one on a 137.5 inch chassis. It’s my understanding all four survive. I have seen two in person. While the power plant is rather uninspired, the coachwork and proportions elevate it into something exceptionally special……..last sale was 1.5M eight years ago. It was an unrestored car.

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

“Latin film star Dolores Del Rio’s elegance compliments this Cord, One of her many luxury cars”

 

Dolores knew how to roll.....

 

[Hemi Joel]

One can be seen in the Brumos collection in Jacksonville Florida.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Hemi Joel (see edit history)

[Highlander160]

Love the looks, as Joel is saying style is truly everywhere. Also I too am 6'2" and driving them is a rather dismal experience for me. The main top center bow is directly overhead. I constantly had to droop my head to avoid bumping it while driving. Steering is what you'd expect, that too was aptly described. Still even giving it some quarter for the most obvious things I found it to be the most dismal and disappointing Classic Car driving experience p e r i o d. Foot position, who in the Great Googly Moogly thought putting the gas pedal UNDER the brake pedal was a good idea? Sure you could get used to it but fast and fancy footwork isn't happening in anything over a size 7 😳. Power and speed, well the power is there, but both of the cabriolets I drove were pretty nervous at anything over 45, maybe 50. I had a Model A pickup at the time that wasn't happy below 40 and happier yet at 50. I dunno about y'all but I'd be mad as .... if someone passed my 6 figure L-29 with ease in a Model A. I understand it's a gearing/final drive ratio issue but😏

They're beautiful, I actually prefer the sedans or Broughams, and I've only driven cabriolets. To me they're a very sultry swanky lady, but when she talks...😩

Edited April 27, 2023 by Highlander160 (see edit history)

[Owen_Dyneto]

George Jepson of Hillsdale NJ (an early President of the CCCA) had one of the L29 Murphy town cars.  George lived just a few miles from me and was in several ways responsible for my introduction to the hobby, I still have that same 1934 Packard Eight that I had when I first met George, that would have been in the late 1960s.  I don't recall whether his Murphy had sidemounts or rear-mount spare.  I had occasion to drive his L29 once, in a local July 4th parade while George drove on of his 734 Packard Speedsters.  Of course the driving was all at very low speeds and I do recall that, even as a 20 something fit young man, steering it was a considerable effort when the road had even a modest crown.   A fine gentleman was George, I was privileged to know him.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Owen_Dyneto (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:14 PM, John Bloom said:

My understanding is that Lycoming 298.6 straight 8 engine was used in the top-of-the-line Auburn as well. Did any other Makes/offerings of that era use that specific engine?

Lycoming supplied the 298.6 ci straight eight to the following concurrent with Auburn and Cord:

1926-'30 Elcar topline models

1927-'31 Gardner topline models

1929-'31 Kissel 8-126

1927-'29 Locomobile 80's

1927 Paige 8-85

1927-'29 Roamer

1928-'29 Velie 88

I might have forgotten one or two, but this is about it.  Notice how many were out of business very shortly thereafter.

[John Bloom]

Good reference for us. Thanks for posting that.   Is there a consensus about the reputation of that engine?

[Hemi Joel]

The front drive L29 engine is different than the other Lycomings though. Because contrary to popular belief, it is not a conventional 8 turned 180° in the chassis.   It has the provision to mount the flywheel and bellhousing on the front of the engine. But it still has the cam drive components on the front.

[vintagerodshop]

I own a 1930 L29 Cabriolet, the red Boat tail l29 Speedster that AJ posted, a 1932 Auburn boatail Speedster, a 1931 Auburn Coupe, a 1932 Auburn Cabriolet, and a 1935 Model J. My perspective of the L29 is that is is the worst car in the list to drive. The driver position, the floor hung pedals, and the extremely heavy front end make it a chore. Gear ratio also keeps your pm higher than you would like. It is very common for L29's to have overheating issues.that being said the styling of can not be beat. I, in a past life used to also own a Ruxton sedan. The Ruxton was a much nicer driving car.

For some reason though I am completely  smitten with the L 29. The concept of driving a car that all the local perceived car guys know nothing about is quite enjoyable. However my 32 Auburn Speedster is a total joy to drive. Light, responsive, brakes well, steers nicely. I would recomwnd a 8 cylinder Auburn every day. If you are looking to buy a L29 please find a car you can borrow for a few days first. 

My Speedster body was built In Canada about the end of the

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, vintagerodshop said:

I own a 1930 L29 Cabriolet, the red Boat tail l29 Speedster that AJ posted, a 1932 Auburn boatail Speedster, a 1931 Auburn Coupe, a 1932 Auburn Cabriolet, and a 1935 Model J. My perspective of the L29 is that is is the worst car in the list to drive. The driver position, the floor hung pedals, and the extremely heavy front end make it a chore. Gear ratio also keeps your pm higher than you would like. It is very common for L29's to have overheating issues.that being said the styling of can not be beat. I, in a past life used to also own a Ruxton sedan. The Ruxton was a much nicer driving car.

For some reason though I am completely  smitten with the L 29. The concept of driving a car that all the local perceived car guys know nothing about is quite enjoyable. However my 32 Auburn Speedster is a total joy to drive. Light, responsive, brakes well, steers nicely. I would recomwnd a 8 cylinder Auburn every day. If you are looking to buy a L29 please find a car you can borrow for a few days first. 

My Speedster body was built In Canada about the end of the

You need to finish that speedster before Pebble Beach has a pre-war speedster class.

Edited June 27, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

31 minutes ago, alsancle said:

You need to finish that speedster before Pebble Beach has a pre-war speech to class.

 

Pebble Beach already had a boattail speedster class. I think it was around 2000. Time for it again, maybe

[John Bloom]

1 hour ago, vintagerodshop said:

I own a 1930 L29 Cabriolet, the red Boat tail l29 Speedster that AJ posted, a 1932 Auburn boatail Speedster, a 1931 Auburn Coupe, a 1932 Auburn Cabriolet, and a 1935 Model J. My perspective of the L29 is that is is the worst car in the list to drive. The driver position, the floor hung pedals, and the extremely heavy front end make it a chore. Gear ratio also keeps your pm higher than you would like. It is very common for L29's to have overheating issues.that being said the styling of can not be beat. I, in a past life used to also own a Ruxton sedan. The Ruxton was a much nicer driving car.

For some reason though I am completely  smitten with the L 29. The concept of driving a car that all the local perceived car guys know nothing about is quite enjoyable. However my 32 Auburn Speedster is a total joy to drive. Light, responsive, brakes well, steers nicely. I would recomwnd a 8 cylinder Auburn every day. If you are looking to buy a L29 please find a car you can borrow for a few days first. 

My Speedster body was built In Canada about the end of the

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I have never driven or even ridden in one.   As Rod Stewart summed it up......"the attraction is purely physical".   They are just so good looking.  

 

Interesting to hear your comparison to the other rides in your stable.   Don't hold back sharing more photos.......on any of them.  

 

John

 

[John Bloom]

https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/vehicles/jc23_101/1931-cord-l-29-cabriolet
 

There is some fabulous stuff being moved at this auction.   I’ll be curious to see what this sells for.
 

55

[Restorer32]

We rewooded an L29 Cabriolet.  I remember there were 103 individual pieces of wood in the body, not including the doors or the rumble lid.

[Su8overdrive]

 

 

 L-29s' influence was entirely stylistic, certainly on the 1931-33 Chrysler Imperials.  Unfortunately, L-29s' high gear was about the same ratio as a 1936-37 Cord's third, so their top speed no better than a MG-TA/B/C.  Thanks to Miller Indy cars, FWD was the rage so passenger automakers explored it both for the performance image and being cheaper to build, lacking separate differential and driveshaft, as well as allowing a much lower car.  Packard's intended FWD 376-ci V-12 was not planned to replace their big top- line 385-ci Deluxe Eight, but compete with Buick's 345-ci Models 80, 90.  But when Cadillac unveiled what was essentially a straight eight with firing impulses halved for less crank pin loading, a V-16, the better to handle custom coachwork weighing three tons yet able to use their existing transmission, Packard hurriedly enlarged their new V-12 to 445-ci and dropped it in the Custom Eight's chassis, since the public invariably thinks more is better, including cylinders.

 

 A friend who as a very young Pan Am wrench at the Alameda Naval Air Station bought a supercharged '37 812 Phaeton in '42, had either during the war or just after a chance to drive a well-tended, low mileage L-29 on Oakland's sleeping streets.  He marveled how it "cornered as if on rails, no heeling over."  Its Lycoming engine was good,  its mechanical shift not as trouble-prone as the later Cord's four-speed version of the Bendix "Electric Hand" optional in 1935-36 Hudsons.

 

  There was an aftermarket "Garcia mechanical shift conversion" for the later V-8 Cords not unlike the relatively simple rods used in the L-29.   Off subject, but despite E. L. Cord losing interest in the car biz and spending much of the decade in England dodging the newly formed SEC to police such stock market marauders, there was inhouse discussion of a 1938 Cord having conventional rear wheel drive.

 

  This L-29 thread reminds me of a recent one in which 1935Packard wanted to know about Delahayes, intrigued by some of their stylings.  From what we've seen over the decades, the best real world, dependable A-C-D product, and perhaps the best bargain in retail auto history, was the 1931-33 Auburn 12 w/ Columbia two-speed axle: finely wrought factory coachwork, like the L-29 an X-membered frame (first seen in France earlier in the '20s), full flow sintered bronze oil filter, an excellent V-12 similar design to Packard's but without the fiendishly complex GM-licensed valve silencers.

 

   We all know Duesenberg J impressive and a long, straight road unpassable.  But for its outrageous price, should've been.  It was obsolete two years after introduction, taking nine years and several iterations to dispatch 480 chiefly to Hollywood and other look at me types, the sort today buying "super" and "hyper" car du jour  depreciating faster than they accelerate.  Fred Duesenberg had wanted to build something his earlier A- and X-sized, about that of Stutz's fine DV-16/DV-32, but Cord wanted a price no object super car, advertising hp to eclipse that of a limited production Mercedes' 250, itself an inflated figure.

 

   About 4,400 1929-32 L-29s built, nearly 50% more than the later V-8 Cords.  Novel and slinky, but those who like driving vintage cars at speed better served by Pierce-Arrow 8s, as well as Imperial, Packard. (A lifelong Packard savant best sums V-12s as "too much of a good thing.")  Pardon the detour, but it's better to see any car in perspective than a vacuum.  The key to enjoying it is just that, sans nest-feathering hyperbole.  Hemi Joel has the right idea, and his '29 L-29 gorgeous.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[Highlander160]

I'm not totally sure how to take the above. I see it like enjoying a fine dessert but the chef hid a bug in the bottom, and you found it when you were nearly done. Packard: nothing finer, period. I've done a baker's dozen from the ground up and my opinion is immovable. L-29: I'll stand pat with what I said above. Model J Duesy: some day, maybe, I've driven 4, and language limits here don't allow me to really drive home the point. It doesn't do many things with total aplomb, except show up maybe. Power? Check. Style? Check, but there were some dogs. Handling? Just think about a lane change and add a bit of wt to that side of the wheel. I'd have a hard time staying out of it if I had one. Auburn: Light, simple compared to all the above, not hard nor easy to drive, an old car with all the wonderful charms of, well, an old car. Speedsters are self abuse at 6'2" and 240lbs. Cadillac: way more hits than misses. Their 12s and 16s run and drive like modern V8s, but heavy which is to be expected. 

The Ruxton was mentioned above, and I had the unique experience of both being involved in a body off resto, and also having an L-29 and Ruxton in the shop to compare. The Ruxton was a high school shop class project compared to the L-29. Having studied the history of New Era Motors (Ruxton) and what I noted along the way, I guess no surprises. I did a sedan, and the body was 3 years older than the car, unceremoniously chopped apart and "stuck together" with a silly amount of lead to try and correct. There's no floor, just wood atop the frame. The instrument panel is better suited to a beer truck. The shift mechanism really is shop class chic. The single kingpin is about the size of a medium impact socket, so no wonder they shed front wheels like a squirrel sheds walnut shells. Even the one I had a hand in had lost a front wheel in its past. If I was a billionaire there would not be one in my collection. An oddity at best, Ruxton was the product of a 20s era "Gordon Gecko" and it showed everywhere (the unhip might look up who that movie character was).

I've met very few Packard models I like less than others, and I never met an 1101 I didn't like. I freely admit my love and honor hits the brakes at 1948, unless I'm looking at her rather sexy rear profile, but then she turns around and is cross-eyed with a mouthful of gumballs. I've arrived at these experiences and opinions beginning at age 14 when dear ol Dad said "You drive..." our 1934 1101 Club Sedan. 14, driving a 34 Packard. That should explain it all quite well, no? 

[Highlander160]

This just in from the "Useless without pisc!" dept:

Frome here, Cord, Ruxton respectively. May continue below, big pics...

[Highlander160]

More:

So was I just being harsh or snobby? Or, can you see what I see. I was involved in the Ruxton from bare frame to finish and it came to my place after for some much needed correction. Kool? A little. Great car? Not in my book, but I tend to judge things based on experience and exposure. I hope you can see that it wasn't just sounds from the south side of a horse headed north. Enjoy...

[edinmass]

I place the L29 and Ruxton in the "cool" and "interesting" category of cars I would not own. Rare and unusual, but for driving............they don't do it for me. Doesn't make me right........but uninspired power plants with relatively small displacement. I find the eight cylinder Stearns Knight twenty times more interesting and is a much better platform. 

[58L-Y8]

" I did a sedan, and the body was 3 years older than the car, unceremoniously chopped apart and "stuck together" with a silly amount of lead to try and correct. There's no floor, just wood atop the frame."

 

Since you are intimately familiar with the sedan body, which was by Budd, have you determined what sedan body they recycled to create the 'stuck together" for Ruxton?  Dodge utilized Budd bodies at the time.

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I place the L29 and Ruxton in the "cool" and "interesting" category of cars I would not own. Rare and unusual, but for driving............they don't do it for me. Doesn't make me right........but uninspired power plants with relatively small displacement. I find the eight cylinder Stearns Knight twenty times more interesting and is a much better platform. 

 

I don't know that I would want to drag race the Stearns and a L29 but I put them in the same sort of group.  Very interesting to look at and maybe own, but not a blast to drive.   The L29 is much more visually attractive while the Stearns is a bigger wow when you open the hood.

Perhaps we need a thread on what 1929 cars are actually a blast to drive.   Subtract Bentley and Duesenberg and what do you have?

[Highlander160]

On 10/30/2023 at 2:42 PM, 58L-Y8 said:

" I did a sedan, and the body was 3 years older than the car, unceremoniously chopped apart and "stuck together" with a silly amount of lead to try and correct. There's no floor, just wood atop the frame."

 

Since you are intimately familiar with the sedan body, which was by Budd, have you determined what sedan body they recycled to create the 'stuck together" for Ruxton?  Dodge utilized Budd bodies at the time.

The body was actually a British car called a Wolsley Messenger from 1927 They whacked the cowl, cut out the floor, and sectioned the rear like 4-5" with very large lead seams. Merciless.

Shagged from another AACA forum topic:

 

[alsancle]

 

[alsancle]

Somehow this escaped my attention.

 

https://listings.worldwideauctioneers.com/product/1929-cord-l-29-special-tourer/

 

[Hemi Joel]

23 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Not accurate on at least a couple things: they are not front heavy. Weight distribution is approximately 50/50. Also the CV joints don't wear out because the front is heavy. They support no weight. They wear out from lack of lubrication.

[Su8overdrive]

Thanks, Mr. Durante, for those clarifications.  You wonder how many L-29s, among others with marginal lube points here and there, would've survived with our recent black molybdenem/graphite grease instead of the orange fiber chassis grease used into the '70s.  My late friend mentioned above, the very young Pan Am wrench at the Alameda Naval Air Station during War II, who raved about the cornering ability of a well-tended L-29 on the sleeping Oakland streets either during or after the war, said a Chevron or Texaco engineer explained how the modern moly/graph a factor of eight times better than the orange fiber, and was originally designed for huge trucks in the hellish environment of stone quarries.

 

Nice pictures all, then and now, above.  That '29 L-29 special tourer minimalist job musta been fun to drive, reminds me of another '29 basic number, a Thompson-bodied (Los Angeles) Packard for a Lt.  J. R. Glasscock:

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[Highlander160]

18 hours ago, Hemi Joel said:

Not accurate on at least a couple things: they are not front heavy. Weight distribution is approximately 50/50. Also the CV joints don't wear out because the front is heavy. They support no weight. They wear out from lack of lubrication.

I would agree here. I'd say the idea of front heavy is intuitive vs true. My driving experiences bear that out too. The one that followed is superior in every way, he got that right. Another model year and we'd have had more than one brand while the rest of the industry tried to play catch up. They're quite sure footed at speed, have a very modern level of behind the wheel confidence, and with 4 speeds can stay up with traffic. Getting used to the select shift doesn't take long either. I've never driven a supercharged version but am told you know it when you drive it. Make mine a simple Westchester, blackwalls, supercharged, and a leather interior. And oh yeah, drip rails. They missed that. Am I wrong? Not if you look at the Hupp Skylark or Hollywood Graham, they have drip rails.😉

Edited November 11, 2023 by Highlander160 (see edit history)

[Su8overdrive]

Hah, drip rails.  That's right.  A Cordite friend, earlier a blown '37 812 Phaeton, later with an unblown '37  Phaeton but with the outside pipes optional on Cords as they were on unblown Duesenberg Js,  takes his Ganges green '36 Westchester -- looks better than it sounds, everything Indian exotic in the '30s, with green optional leather interior -- to a local show.  It starts raining, really pouring, and when you get out,  a waterfall, you get drenched.  Woulda been hilarious if it hadn't been cold rain.  I'm vegan, so prefer heavy broadcloth, and optional whipcord in old prewar dropheads, Buicks, Cads, Packards; like sailcloth, wore like iron.  You don't get fried in summer, and a lot warmer in winter.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[Hemi Joel]

just an FYI, my L29 cabriolet on the 4 corner scales:

 

 

[West Peterson]

On 10/29/2023 at 8:02 AM, Highlander160 said:

....... Model J Duesy: some day, maybe, I've driven 4, and language limits here don't allow me to really drive home the point. It doesn't do many things with total aplomb, except show up maybe. Power? Check. Style? Check, but there were some dogs. Handling? Just think about a lane change and add a bit of wt to that side of the wheel. ....

 

I drove our Duesenberg, and felt the same way as you. I've learned since that the problem is that you and I have driven restored Duesenbergs with worn-out steering boxes (and probably other parts). They were restored to look pretty, but without the intention of being driven. Many people (maybe Ed included) tell me that when you drive a properly rebuilt Duesenberg, your assessment would change dramatically. Of course, it still won't compare to the 1934 Packard, but then, nothing before 1934 would compare with a 1934 Packard, and it got even better in 1937 (1935, for the Junior Packards).

[West Peterson]

Of course, one could always do this if they're not happy with their L-29. I don't recommend it, of course. This was done for Palm Beach "Classic Car" dealer John Staluppi (net worth $500 million). The first photo is the before shot, I kid you not. The entire frame and running gear is late-model Corvette.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Taste!   Everybody has it. Some good, some BAD. 

 

  Ben

[edinmass]

If I expressed myself in the terms that I normally do, I would receive a permanent ban on this website. His junk shop….. excuse me, “museum”is only a couple miles from me. Knowing the kind of stuff he collects, I have never bothered to stop and see his stuff. In the world of Palm Beach he’s a popper. Having a few dollars doesn’t give you taste, class, or sophistication. It’s my understanding he made his money garbage in New Jersey. So it makes sense. That’s what he puts in his garage.  To each his own.

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Based on the cheap-looking wheels alone, my only guess is that Hot Wheels is getting ready to roll out a new car, and this will be used during some Hot Wheels promotional tour. 

 

[Lee H]

Not a bad start, but the whitewalls just have to go.🙂

[alsancle]

10 minutes ago, Lee H said:

Not a bad start, but the whitewalls just have to go.🙂

This.  The tires ruin it.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Aw well, let's look at the bright [?] side.  He DID put some of his green into circulation.😁😁

 

  Ben