Early Chrysler judging rules

[BlueDevil]

Does the club have judging rules for per 1930 cars and if so where can I find it.

 

Thanks

[leomara]

This is going to be interesting because I too would be interested in how pre 1930 Chryslers would be judged.  I've experienced difficulty trying to determine what applies or does not for my 1928 Model 72 Sport Roadster.  Early Chrysler detail documentation is sparce to non-existent.  Heck, there is no shop manual for my car except what is in the owners manual.  Someone enlighten me please.

[viv w]

I've been restoring early Chryslers since 1972 and never seen anything for judging. The biggest problem with these early Chryslers, is that seldom will you find 2 identical cars. They made so many changes in such a short time, that I doubt if anyone is still alive that can verify what is right and what is not.

[BlueDevil]

Thanks for the input. My issue is I am getting ready to paint the engine and transmission and all I see on the web is some shade of gray or avocado. I can only find one black one.

In taking stuff off my engine, I can find no evidence of black paint anywhere.

[leomara]

And I doubt you will,  my engine and bell housing were avocado green under 82 years of crude.  R & E Automotive Paint & Supply will put the green into a rattle can JE 44955, Avocado Green.  Your head should be a red head,  mine is not so it should be silver/gray unless I fake it.  This only pertains to Chrysler Model 72 Roadsters.

Edited February 21, 2023 by leomara (see edit history)

[BlueDevil]

Leo,

 

Thanks for the info. Is R&E in Arkansas? I tried their site and they drew a blank on JE44955. 

 Bill

[Narve N]

The WPChysler Club did judge plenty of pre-war cars in the 70s through 00s, and the magazine had up until 1990 quite some good stories on various models with detail-information. Someone knew these cars, question is whether that someone still active today. Anyhow I doubt that standards have been written down, like for British sportscars or Corvettes.

[leomara]

BlueDevil, so here is the rub, R & E is transitioning their equipment because the PPG line is being difficult to obtain.  Because of this they are not looking to fill orders from the PPG line of which JE 44955 is.  After they transition to whatever they transition to I was informed there is a good chance the Avocado Green JE 44955 may not come out in exactly the same shade because of the different formula used to create it.  This leaves me in the lurch because I've used this color and if I need to match it in the future I will have to find another source for the PPG formula type.  Perhaps you can find another dealer who makes this paint from the PPG line or just get what is available wherever.  I'm sure no one is going to be able to identify the difference of a shade. 

[FLYER15015]

My '31 CG may not be the exact shade, but I think it is close.

Yes, it's a real redhead.

 

Mike in Colorado

[24Chry48]

Here is a chart that was furnished a few years ago for Chrysler engines. This is for 31-32 but it sounds like it is what you are looking for. These are accurate.

[BlueDevil]

WOW, thanks 24chry28.

[BlueDevil]

This is what I am going with. Sherwin-Williams can't or won't read PPG/Ditzler codes. I looked up the JE 44955 and came up with a '74-'75 VW color called Avocado green and here it is.

[leomara]

And that VW color is exactly what was described to me as being a good match.

[24Chry48]

Sherwin Williams can't read the paint code because they make house paint. You need to go to an automotive professional paint store and they will be able to help you. The green you have is not close to the proper Chrysler color. The Chrysler color is more of a blue-green. What you have there is closer to the Packard green.

[leomara]

24Chry48, what is your source for this information.  I do not doubt it being true, however, I do not know of anyone able to pull out a color chip chart to validate the proper shade of Chrysler green from another close shade of green.

[$um Fun]

Just to set the record straight, Sherwin Williams does make automotive paints  and even some OEM use them. If you have a actual color sample they can use their Spectrophotometer to come up with their formula for it. https://industrial.sherwin-williams.com/na/us/en/automotive.html

[24Chry48]

16 hours ago, leomara said:

24Chry48, what is your source for this information.  I do not doubt it being true, however, I do not know of anyone able to pull out a color chip chart to validate the proper shade of Chrysler green from another close shade of green.

My validation is owning, researching, and networking with fellow owners of these cars over the past 42 years. The chart I furnished with the mixture required came from one of the most knowledgeable Chrysler owners I know, and he posts on here occasionally. The original engine color is more of a blue-grey-green or light teal color.  The Sherwin Williams picture in an above post is closer to the Packard color, which is predominately green. I will try to find a photo with the correct paint color. This is a picture of a 32 Imperial engine. The color in this photo looks just a little more blue tinted than the actual color, but it is very close.

Edited March 4, 2023 by 24Chry48 (see edit history)

[leomara]

I have no doubt your research is accurate, however when I removed the grease from my bell housing and transmission on what I'm lead to believe is a low mileage car, in the deepest crevasses where nothing could have reached over the years I found a green much like one BlueDevil posted, nothing like the 32 Imperial Engine. 

[24Chry48]

8 hours ago, leomara said:

I have no doubt your research is accurate, however when I removed the grease from my bell housing and transmission on what I'm lead to believe is a low mileage car, in the deepest crevasses where nothing could have reached over the years I found a green much like one BlueDevil posted, nothing like the 32 Imperial Engine. 

 That is usually a good indicator and it may be this time also. I'm sure there are variations in paint for engines, just like there is for anything else. It depends on how paint got mixed and how well the mixer was paying attention that day. I have learned that in the early days of cars, as well as other things, there is no absolute when it comes to color. We collect Aladdin kerosene lamps from the thirties and forties which came in many models. The same model green lamp may have many different shades of green, some are quite rare. That's what makes collecting and restoring fun.

[pre1939chrysler]

Leo ,that is a bit too green ans  Chrysler aqua blue is too blue. But yours is the closest. 

By the way I  was one of the judges for NCPC for many years.

AACA should be able to offer up the guidelines for judging.

Paint is not a big issue but there tis documation on the use of white walls on low end cars.

[24Chry48]

I just found this picture of a 32 CI Chrysler engine that is painted as close as I have seen to the correct color. 

[Narve N]

I know some consider this to be a too greenish color, but previous WPC President Sherwood Kahlenberg recommended me to use 56 Ford Meadowgreen for the blocks back in 1982 and I bought one liter with that blend. That can has now been used to paint four engines, so in my part of the woods all cars has uniform engine color..

[24Chry48]

That is the name of the color I was also told about years ago in the early nineties. My picture of the 32 Imperial engine shows more blue on the computer than it actually is. I don't know why. 

 

[cricketkj26]

Please keep in mind that for folks out there that have or working on 1924-1927 6 cylinder Chryslers - the blue/ green engine block color 

Does Not Apply - seems to start for 1928. accept for maybe Imperials.  Engine Blocks were black as best as we can tell. I have looked at hundreds of photos  

nd I have seen all kinds of engine colors,. A couple of folks that contribute regularly to this Chrysler section has and or worked on a number of these very early 

unmolested survivors and another gentlemen I ran across has an original survivor 1925 Sixty that the engine has not been painted over.  Head was were black                                       on that one . Redhead Heads were red and Silverdome heads were silver as mentioned on above thread. Those heads had "Redhead" and "Silverdome" cast into                                   the top of the head.  I have seen a number of silver gray heads in photos for 1924- 1925 heads.  The photos of the Six cylinder engine  that was at the Chrysler 

museum had a silver gray head.  It had to be a 24 or 25 as it did not have the exhaust manifold Heat Control on the rear of the exhaust portion of the manifold. 

Cricket. 

 

[28 Chrysler]

I have a  Model 60 engine with a casting date 9/3/26 black block/gray head without manifold heat control.

It was last run in California 1956 because of a major transmission failure.

[24Chry48]

I just found my printout of engine colors on all Chrysler cars that was from the WPC News from 1994. It states that all engines 4 and 6 cyl. prior to 1930, blocks were painted black. I don't know the accuracy of this document.

[leomara]

That's easy, the list is not correct because we know there was a green color used on some of the 6 cylinder engines like my 1928 Model 72 roadster.

[Gunsmoke]

When I disassembled my 1931 Chrysler CD8, the access panel shown here on top of transmission was in perfect condition, it had been protected from debris and sunlight by the floor boards and a thick insulating pad from the factory which lay tightly on it. The original paint was perfect and I took it to a reputable paint shop to have it reproduced in a good sized spray can. I sprayed a sample on a scrap of metal and color matched perfectly. So this is the resulting color sprayed on my engine over a coat of grey engine enamel base coat. It is what it is, might be hard to say what mix is, but clearly a light blue grey with a hint of green perhaps. A good paint supplier tech could likely pull something close just from a good photo. I will check to see if I still have the spray can and if it has a formula. (Have since checked, and no longer have paint can. (edit 03/23/23)

Edited March 23, 2023 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[24Chry48]

That color to me, looks perfect.

[BlueDevil]

Here is the color on the 75 I just got.

 

 

[leomara]

This is a tough call because any motor with old paint is going to look similar but not the same shade as a motor with new paint.

[BlueDevil]

Ok, I took off the oil filler neck which had the color of engine paint that was on my 75, which was restored probably in the '80's or earlier, and had it photo matched at Paint Masters.

 

When fully stirred and dry it is just about perfect. It is still wet on the stirrer at this point.