1960 lincoln continental questions.

[old car fan]

1 hour ago, m-mman said:

Slow down . . . .  Dont be in a rush . . . . Relax . . . . 

  

Learning about and knowing how to use tools, properly and learning what they do and what they DONT do is a critically important mechanical skill. 

 

1. Tool connects with the part you want removed, ensure that it has connected properly and solidly. 

2. Apply force in the proper direction.

         Understand threads intimately dont guess at the proper rotation.

         If pulling, ensure and verify that you are pulling in a straight line. (applying force at an angle will cause injuries, broken tools and stripped nuts)

3. Experience will teach you the maximum amount of force that can be applied JUST BEFORE something breaks or loosens up or you smash your knuckles. 

 

This parts car looks like either a 1958 or 1959.  Both are very, very similar in most all parts. Many interchangeable parts. 

 

You have a 1960. Looks very similar but about one half of the car was brand new and doesnt interchange with a 1958-1959. (rear suspension switched from coil springs to leaf springs. . . ) 

 

The "round thing" is the HVAC servo control motor. 58-9 used mechanical cables. I believe that 1960 was vacuum. 

 

No. . . . .slow down (I know you are frustrated and maybe a little angry) But you are not going to be cutting any copper the replace the broken or missing parts. 

 

If those horn brushes are still in the parts cars, you should catch your breath, reset your tools and go back another day and try to retrieve them. 

Think of your time in the wrecking yard as a classroom. Be inquisitive.  You are there for more than just getting parts.

Dismantling parts cars is how you learn to repair your own car. 

 

I have many times gone to the wrecking yard not because I needed parts but because I wanted to remove the part from the junk car before I removed it on my car. (learn where all the bolts are)

Once I get the parts off, I leave them and I go home and fix my car. 

 

Stop, look observe, take pictures and go back home to look up what you have seen in the parts cars and learn what those parts are and why they are there. Auto repair and restoration is a lifelong learning experience. 

 

Then, try to remember that you are doing this for fun  🙂 

He said it best,slow down, 1 thing at a time, make this  a learning  experience, will not happen  overnight.If you try to fix everything at one  time, you will get lost,and then a parts car,go easy.

[rocketraider]

WD40 is more a lubricant and water displacer than a penetrating oil and rust buster.

 

PB Blaster or Kroil is what you need. Or you can make your own penetrating oil with a 50/50 mixture of transmission fluid and acetone. But a small spray can of Blaster fits better in a toolbox.

 

Be glad you're dealing with Colorado rust instead of this mess we have in the East!😁

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said:

So, with all that being said - if i am going to try to test it with my light tester between the column post and the copper looking contact insulator - should be a light up in the tool? 

 

Yes it should. I believe that is what @m-mman was getting at. With the horn button apart like that, and the horn not being honked, the only thing between your test light and the 12V supply is a coil of wire inside the relay.

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Andy J]

Try this to get the steering wheel off. Back the nut off until the steering shaft doesn't stick through the nut. Take a ball peen hammer,put the flat face on the nut and the end of the handle under the steering wheel. Take another hammer and hit the ball peen while pulling up on the ball peen handle. You may have to hit it several times,placing the handle at different positions around the wheel. I've pulled many wheels off with this method,however crude it may be,and it has never failed me.

 

An old mechanic showed me this method when I was a teenager many years ago. 

[m-mman]

2 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said:

So, with all that being said - if i am going to try to test it with my light tester between the column post and the copper looking contact insulator - should be a light up in the tool? 

First:  Charged battery, clean connections. find the horn relay verify that it is plugged in 

Next: Clean the spring loaded button protruding from the turn signal switch.  A simple rubbing and wipe should do it. 

1. Connect test light to ground 

2. Touch test light to the button on the turn signal switch.  You should see 12 volts (the test light should glow)

Note: It is highly unlikely that the horn will sound. The resistance in the test light will probably be too much. BUT you need to check if that button has power. 

3. IF there IS 12 volts at the button, NOW you can take a good sized wire and ground one end. Then touch it to the button in the turn signal switch. Hopefully your horn(s) will sound. 

IF they do not - do you hear the horn relay clicking?  (if no relay click, then more diagnosis is needed)

IF the relay clicks but horns dont sound, then find the horns, make sure they are plugged in and well grounded. Maybe even bring 12 volt power to them to make sure they work. 

 

I rechecked my Lincoln literature today. (I have recently been doing horn work on a 1960 Ford and a 1942 Hudson all horn rings are basically the same, but each a little different)

 

The 58 Lincoln uses a metal spring. The 59-60 Lincoln uses the rubber spring (so does the 1960 Ford)  As an FYI a 1958 and a 1959 Lincoln are not wayyyy older than a 1960.   (My 1926 Lincoln IS wayyyyyyy older than a 1960) The 1958 and 1959 and 1960 are very similar cars.

 

Whenever you search or remove parts in the junkyard you really need to properly identify the car your are pulling parts from. (year, model, options, etc) What were the junkyard cars? 

Cars are made and repaired based on generations. You learn about a particular generation and you understand several years better. Lincolns 1958 to 1960 are similar.  Relative to the junkyard cars, there is always the possibility that somebody has made changes on them during their lifetime.

 

The turn signal button rubs on the square plate that is retained by the same 4 screws/bolts that hold the horn ring. It will need cleaning for a good contact with the button. Also where the horn ring grounds against the steering wheel will need good cleaning.

But you are starting with the simple horn circuit and testing things slowly and methodically.

Its the ONLY way to get an old car repaired. 

[BryanFJ1]

GOD WHAT E BEAST! What a quality! Even tho its been like 63 years - most of the part are still working! 

I know these are hard to maintain/fix but its WORTH IT! WORTH THE STRUGGLE! 

JUST LOOK AT THIS MONSTER! A PANTHER GETTING TO YOU FROM THE JUNGLE! 

 

 

[rocketraider]

Imagine yourself as a Lincoln dealer line mechanic in those days.

 

😆

[BryanFJ1]

On 3/18/2023 at 6:48 PM, m-mman said:

What were the junkyard cars?

These guys... 

Also both cars have a very solid windshields (in my car there is a crack). So maybe one day...

Unfortunately the interiors are in a very bad shape for both of them.

Couldn't even open the driver side door in a pink car - had to try taking steering wheel off half my body outside (my back wasn't happy).

Edited March 20, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[m-mman]

Nice.

 Without anyone saying anything, can you identify the exact year and models? 🤔
Being able to recognize cars and their parts is an important car collector skill.

 

Eventually you will be reading serial numbers and parts numbers to properly identify things. 😉

[BryanFJ1]

3 hours ago, m-mman said:

Nice.

 Without anyone saying anything, can you identify the exact year and models? 🤔
Being able to recognize cars and their parts is an important car collector skill.

 

Eventually you will be reading serial numbers and parts numbers to properly identify things. 😉

Well i suggest these are same year cars. I say these are 1958... 

[m-mman]

1 hour ago, BryanFJ1 said:

Well i suggest these are same year cars. I say these are 1958...

Excellent.  Correct. 😁
 Can you identify the styling features that determine that they are a 1958? 
 

Then comes the question of which model. 🤔
They are different.  One cost significantly more than the other brand new.
Hint: there’s a huge difference in the rear window area.  

[BryanFJ1]

On 3/20/2023 at 8:31 PM, m-mman said:

styling features

Well, the front bumper is different. It's so out you can see the fender in the shape of it, i think 1958 model has it so way out.

Plus all the dashboard is different too.

On 3/20/2023 at 8:31 PM, m-mman said:

Then comes the question of which model.

This is a bit tricky...

[BryanFJ1]

Tried to test the horn yesterday.

The light tool tester wasn't showing anything.

Tried to hear any clicks at the relay - nothing.

Couldn't really test anything at the relay itself - like there is no space to do anything... 

Horns are connected, so i think maybe there is a blown relay.

 

[m-mman]

Between any different years and models of any make of car there are always hundreds of differences. Tiny differences that can determine whether parts from one car will fit on another. This is critical to know when you are restoring any old car.  

 

Whenever you get any old car the FIRST thing you do is completely identify what it is

Example: there are lots of questions and answers on this forum about correctly identifying Buicks. The exact model can sometimes be confusing on those cars.

 

The second thing you do as you are learning about your car is research what years,makes and models use parts that can interchange with yours. The Buicks I mentioned above can many times swap parts from Chevrolets, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs DEPENDING on the exact model Buick, so having this information is very important.

 

You Lincoln belongs to a group of Lincolns that share parts and engineering. They were made from 1958 to 1960.   

Below are SOME, VERY BASIC differences. 

 

1958 - The biggest difference is the pods surrounding the headlights. They are 1958 only. Notice that 1958s have pointed bumper guards but they are smaller and not rubber like yours. 

Also the scallop area in the fender is very deep and sculpted 

1959s do not have the headlight pods. The grille is wide across the whole front end just like yours, but the texture is different from your 1960. The scallop area is not as deep as 1958 and it extends into the door.  The bumper is also straight across. 

 

1960 - Notice the scallop is just like 1959 extending into the door.  The pointed bumper guards have rubber in them. 

The grille is similar to 1959 but it (and the bumper) dips low and makes for a bigger grille area. 

 

 

Between 1958 and 1960 they offered 2 different cars.  the Lincoln Continental (top line model) and the Lincoln Capri and Premier (basic cheaper models)  Again there were many, many small differences between them but the biggest is in the area of the rear window. 

The cheaper Lincoln Capri and Premiere used a fixed wrap around piece of glass. 

 

The Lincoln Continental (top of the line) used the three piece window with the retractable middle like on your car. 

 

I looked up prices a 1958 Lincoln Premiere and a Continental.  The Lincoln cost $5565   The Continental was $6072.   A $500 difference. 

Doesn't sound like much today but that's a 10% difference.  In 2023 dollars that a $5,000 difference.  (like the difference between ad $50,000 car and a $55,000 car today) 

 

When you return the the junk yard (or study the pictures) you can look for these differences. 

 

These are the things that you really need to study and learn. Knowing the differences helps you find parts.

 

Example:  You have a 1960. It uses the rubber horn spring.

Remember I told you that I looked in the parts book and it showed that 1958s used a metal horn spring. . . . . Hummmm. . . . If you had this information, then even before you tried to remove the steering wheel in the junkyard you would have been able to know if the parts would fit your car.  See why knowledge is power? 

 

Learning more about the car you have also lets you appreciate and gawk at rare versions and rare options that you might see on other cars similar to yours. 

 

The more you learn about your car the more you will appreciate and respect it. Studying these things is what makes this hobby fun. 

Studying and learning about the car(s) you have or want is 90% of what is happening in this forum. 

 

 

 

[m-mman]

7 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said:

Tried to test the horn yesterday.

The light tool tester wasn't showing anything.

Tried to hear any clicks at the relay - nothing.

Couldn't really test anything at the relay itself - like there is no space to do anything... 

Horns are connected, so i think maybe there is a blown relay.

Ok, for this we will start backwards.  Relays rarely "blow" BUT they do get corroded and develop poor connections. 

1960 - I believe your horns are under the hood. They were behind the bumper in 1958 & 59 but moved to the underhood in mid 1959 because they got splashed and stopped working. (Lincoln issued a service bulletin on this) 

 

Remove the wires from each horn. They should have flat slide on connector. Clean the connector on the horn (Emory paper? steel wool?) 

Connect a (long) jumper wire from the positive battery post and touch it to each horn. (there should be two horns)  Each horn should easily squawk and squeal. If not, the horns themselves have problems. Horns vibrate to make noise and if they sit for along time I have had them stick. Then removing then and shaking them and even spraying some WD40 into them is needed to free them up. If and when you remove them, also clean the mounting brackets and the area where they bolt to the body. (this gives you a good ground) 

 

A Ford horn relay is a very simple thing. It is a box with three connectors on the bottom. (Yours was very likely unplugged to cure a stuck horn condition because your horn ring is not fixed) 

 

The three connections 

1. Power coming from the battery. It has no fuse, no switch, because the horn should function all the time, key on or key off. 

2. Power going to the horns. When the relay closes (FYI - a relay is just a switch that is controlled by another switch) it gets full battery power and sends it to the horns. (the reason you want to make sure your horns sound at all before you mess with the relay)

3. Power that is GOING to the button in your steering wheel.  This 3rd connector is powered, and when IT is connected to ground, the relay closes and sends full battery power to the horns. 

 

First You will find your relay.  You will see if it was plugged in. 

It uses a three prong plug. You can use your test light to probe and see if ONE of the sockets in the plug has battery power.  No power to any plug? more testing and tracing.

You can then jump 12 volt power from the positive battery post to one of the other sockets. IF the horns are plugged in and working they should sound. 

You can then jump 12 volt power to the remaining socket and then verify that there is 12 volt power at the button in your turn signal switch. IF no power at turn signal switch then you need more testing and tracing. 

 

Chances are you have dirty connections or broken connections somewhere. 

 

 

[BryanFJ1]

Congratulate me - MY FIRST VAPOR LOCK in the traffic just happened now.

I swear to god...

I thought things like that only happening when the car sits and you just can't start it again...

So i was driving around the town, outside temperature is like 80 degrees, drove like, i don't know 15 miles and then i stopped at one place for a few minutes, and then drove to another place, but on the way there i noticed when i pressed on the gas like it has less power and sound was different - i was like HUH? Got to the place, car was sitting for like 10 minutes maybe? And then on my way back home it stalled pretty much right after i left the last stop.

Anyways, got out the car, filter is dry, looked inside the carb, press accelerator with hand - nothing, just a little tiny fumes smoke came out.

WOW, WHAT A DAY.

Then i noticed, that the temperature gauge, for the first time was showing the middle readings - so that means it was a pretty hot day

So i had this check valve before the fuel pump. I thought maybe that caused it somehow? 

Removed it, tried to crank - nothing, filter is dry.

So i got my gas canister and just put hose from the pump into canister - nothing..

So at this point it was like 30-40 minutes already, engine was cooled down and i just got that hose from the fuel pump, got my little funnel to it and FEEDED the fuel pump with the gas i had in the canister.

Attached the hose without loosing any gas in it back to the filter. jumped back to the car and it started working again, thank god.

 

So the question of the day - how to avoid it in the future again with this fuel pump? 

I think i might can made some sort of a heat shield out of soda can, but the aluminium is a bit thin i think for this job? 

I don't think there is an actual heat shields for this fuel pump models is it? 

Anyway, any thoughts? 

 

Then there is these wraps you can get around the pump. 

Maybe that might work...

 

The hillbilly way is that you can just wrap the whole thing around like potato with the foil, but better not open this hood at these car meetings i am going to monthly lol.

Edited April 10, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[4Hud]

Yep, our '60 Continental does the same thing on hot days, we added a switch operated electric fuel pump.  Front of the engine, elevated is a poor location for the factory fuel pump.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Take with you a bottle of water and pour the cold water on the fuel pump when you are in trouble. 

[BryanFJ1]

The more i was searching about the fuel system in 1960 Linc - the more i was noticing that some fuel pumps has 3 hose lines in the fuel pump, and some not (like mine). Now i know - that 3rd line is a vapor return line back to the tank, which my car never had i think. 

Putting extra heat shields is good, but something tells me it is still not fixing the problem.

I am thinking of putting this fuel filter, that has a third nipple for vapor escaping - but i'd need to make a return line for it.

So the all the heated fuel vapors in the pump will escape back to the tank. 

BUT - there is a question - where to connect that line at the tank? 

All i can think off (without drilling anything anywhere) is to connect it to that port at the top driver side part of the tank, where there is this nipple for tank breathing. 

With that being said, is it a good idea? with this engineering idea there will be not just tank fumes but extra fumes from the fuel pump and no way to escape...

I think i can drive with a tank cap loose (Good thing there is a latch that will protect it from getting lost), so it will hiss all that extra pressure out.

And i guess that is going to be a SUMMER WAY of driving the car - but no vapor locks... 

 

UPD: Just checked the fuel cap and how tight it sits there - the rubber seal is corroded pretty bad (Which is actually good in this situation), so even when the cap locked, you can wiggle it, which means there is some space for fumes to  scape. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[m-mman]

On 4/10/2023 at 2:41 PM, BryanFJ1 said:

I don't think there is an actual heat shields for this fuel pump models is it? 

Yes there is.  Underhood temps became a real problem starting in 1961 when they reduced the amount of free circulating air by making a smaller hood and moving the inner fenders closer. 

 

 

The part number is C1VE-9A396-A

 

6 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said:

The more i was searching about the fuel system in 1960 Linc - the more i was noticing that some fuel pumps has 3 hose lines in the fuel pump, and some not (like mine). Now i know - that 3rd line is a vapor return line back to the tank, which my car never had i think. 

Putting extra heat shields is good, but something tells me it is still not fixing the problem.

I am thinking of putting this fuel filter, that has a third nipple for vapor escaping

Lincoln did this also. HOWEVER. . . . Lincoln installed part number C1VE-9A405-A (1961 to 1962) or part number C3VY-9A405-A. (1963-67)  See the base group numbers above.

It was a thermostatic valve that opened ONLY when it was hot enough. 

The idea was to move JUST ENOUGH cool LIQUID fuel through the pump to cool it (returning the warmed fuel to the tank)

 

Remember hot vaporous gasoline is kinda explosive. . . .

 

The problem with adding a return line (and a proper one returns liquid not vapor) is that if you return too much (how big is the return line?) it could wind up redirecting ALL the fuel flow back to the tank and the carb would starve. 

 

The fuel pump body with the return line has been obsolete for a long time. The aftermarket pump manufacture included a T-fitting with their new pumps to connect to the original return line. The outlet on the T fitting return side was smaller than the carb feed line. 

 

First thing is to check and recheck your fuel delivery system.  You have had prior troubles with the length of the push rod and the original fuel tank issues.  When last heard from, your carb was not 100% perfect.

 

There is also the amount of lift in the pushrod and the amount of free play in the rocker arm of the pump that can be examined and reexamined. Pin holes in the metal line between the tank and the pump can also cause these problems. (have you vacuum checked your fuel line?) 

Any and all of these can result in the symptoms you are experiencing. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by m-mman (see edit history)

[BryanFJ1]

16 hours ago, m-mman said:

First thing is to check and recheck your fuel delivery system.  You have had prior troubles with the length of the push rod and the original fuel tank issues.  When last heard from, your carb was not 100% perfect.

Well tank was just an old nasty rusty tank, which is now is nice and shiny.

Carb (from the 1963 model) was always working fine, it was just that one time the needle stuck.

16 hours ago, m-mman said:

Pin holes in the metal line between the tank and the pump can also cause these problems. (have you vacuum checked your fuel line?) 

Honestly, no. I don't think i even know how? Like i need some special air tools for that i think? 

 

Okay, so i ordered this fuel filter, which suppose to have an orifice inside of it, so the fuel has to move the right direction all the time and the vapors goes into the small nipple and back to the tank (Well if that was the actual issue), and i got like 25 feet rubber fuel hose so i can have it back at the tank from this vapor nipple into the breathing outlet - so at this point it's just an experiment. If the same conditions will occur, like driving car at 100 degrees for 30 minutes and then park it - and then maybe i'll hear hissing sound at the tank and car will start without stalling - thus will prove this set up is works and i'll need to just upgrade the fuel line to the hard one. 

If not, then everything is returnable and we will see from there. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[m-mman]

13 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said:

Okay, so i ordered this fuel filter, which suppose to have an orifice inside of it, so the fuel has to move the right direction all the time and the vapors goes into the small nipple and back to the tank

And are you going to install this 3 nipple filter on the suction side of the pump or the pressure side? 

[Bloo]

I've done this. Exactly this, but on a Ford FE engine. Buick and Chrysler used filters like that originally on some cars. It isn't what you think though. It was a long time ago and I thought that orifice was going to bleed vapor and keep the system full of liquid, but it isn't really true. The filter goes between the pump and the carb. The smallest nipple has the orifice in it, and that connects to the return line to the tank. It does help cool the pump a little because there is fuel circulating, but it isn't a big difference. It did raise what the ambient temperature could be before the car failed to run. It didn't raise it much though, and didn't solve the problem well enough to make the car reliable in hot weather.

 

The REAL reason for that filter might surprise you. If I remember correctly @carbking has a page about it on his website where he explains in detail. I can never seem to find the link, so here's the short version. When fuel boils in the pump the pressure in the pump rises dramatically, it can force liquid fuel that is sitting in the fuel line past the float valve in the carburetor. This makes the carburetor bowl run over, and the fuel goes anywhere it can. In practice, it goes through the main discharge tubes and floods the engine. If the orifice and return line are there, the fuel gets pushed back to the tank instead of into the carburetor. As I recall from an earlier posting, your engine, carb, accelerator pump, etc. were dry. So were mine. It's a solution to the wrong problem.

 

Maybe it would help a tiny bit by circulating fuel. You might as well try it I guess, but I'm not expecting much improvement.

 

[BryanFJ1]

14 hours ago, Bloo said:

Maybe it would help a tiny bit by circulating fuel. You might as well try it I guess, but I'm not expecting much improvement.

Well, i already was thinking about how to improve the whole thing. 

So i can put this filter with the line back to the tank, then i can try to reduce to heat soaking in hoses by wrapping them in some hose heat resistant wrap, plus get that heat shield for the pump (plus maybe that heat cover for it as well). So that, in my understanding, should make some results.

I

[Bloo]

I would be most interested in that shield m-mman mentioned.

[BryanFJ1]

15 minutes ago, Bloo said:

I would be most interested in that shield m-mman mentioned.

Yeah, but unfortunately i don't think it's going to fit.

The shield that m-mman mentioned is designed for, i think, older pump model, which has 6 screws to hold the top part.

My pump has like 10 screws i think? So there is possibility that 3 holes are going to match to the holes at my pump, but im pretty sure i'd need to drill holes to match mine all over the rim.

Edited April 13, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[old car fan]

I don't think it's the  problem. Our 61 will run out of gas before it quits. 

[rocketraider]

Bryan, what elevation are you at in Colorado? Carb may need to be jetted slightly richer for higher altitudes. Possibly starving for fuel? Just throwing things out.

 

Can you get non-ethanol fuel? Something that's a little less volatile...

[BryanFJ1]

3 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Bryan, what elevation are you at in Colorado?

i am at 5,210 ft.

 

3 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Carb may need to be jetted slightly richer for higher altitudes.

Nah, there is definitely something with the temperature. 

I am just analyzing everything that happened there, and like, it has to be this new fuel that boils on lower temperatures compare to the old gasoline.

Then, as you mentioned before - the higher elevation - THE LOWER IS BOILING POINT for liquids... 

For instance, at my elevation the boiling point for water is 202 F degrees. 

Plus this magnificent design of the fuel pump at the most hot place in the engine bay, plus no heat shield, plus no return line for a fuel pump that has a special outlet for vapors to go back to the tank... 

The only thing is a spacer right now that somewhat saving the day...

 

(At atmospheric pressure, gasoline has an initial boiling point of 95 °F (35 °C) and a final boiling point of 395 °F (200 °C).)

Edited April 14, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[m-mman]

Personally I hate the words “vapor lock” they are used to diagnose ANY situation where the carb doesn’t have liquid fuel. People become attached to looking for heat related problems when in reality their fuel delivery problems are something completely different. 

Yes excess heat can turn liquid fuel into vapor that can’t be pumped through the carb.  I experienced in ONCE in my 1964 Lincoln convertible. I was using it to tow a VW Rabbit through 90+ degree heat with the AC on. At 60 mph the car slowed with symptoms of “running out of gas”. Before it coasted to the side of the road, I popped the hood release. (Hinged at the grille) this allowed the instant expulsion of overheated air toward the windshield.  Cool air (90 degrees?) rushed through the grille and past the fuel pump) and in seconds the power was restored.  The car didn’t even come to a stop. THIS was true vapor lock. I do not believe that it is the full problem with your car.  
 

Do not fall into the diagnostic trap of assuming that what you have already “fixed” is 100% trouble free.  
 

Fuel tank- your tank was typically rusty and gummed up. You had it “repaired”.  You earlier used the word “shiny” to describe it. I don’t think shiny is the right word. You previously described problems with grounding the fuel sender.  
Wasn’t your tank cleaned AND COATED? (Possibly Renu?) If so it can still be at fault. 
The Renu coating can come off. Yeah they guarantee it, but I have experienced two Renu tanks where the coating came off in particles.  These particles would TEMPORARILY plug the fuel line. Stop the car, (let it cool?) the particles fall away and the car starts again. The owner was enraged trying to cure his “heat related vapor lock”. 

Tank removal (again) particle scraping and dumping and surprise(!) no more “vapor lock” on even the hottest days. 
 

Another car with a lot of preparation for a coast to coast drive. Was “vapor locking” even when driving at night and in cool temperatures. 
The car was running at Highway speeds and looses power coasting to the side of the road.  Owner became fixated on “vapor lock”. On the trip he; Changed fuel pumps, filters, had the tank drained and removed (20 gallons of fuel dumped!) but his “vapor lock” continued. 
I took the car for a week long deep diagnosis in my garage. I refused to use the words “vapor lock” because I knew that it was making people miss the actual problem. 
 

I vacuum checked the fuel line.  Here is how:
Remove both ends of the metal fuel line from the tank and rubber hose under the hood. Plug one end. (Short hose with a bolt in it) 

Attach a hand vacuum pump to the other end. (One man brake bleeder)

Use the little jar that catches the brake fluid). 
Suction the metal fuel line. 
1. you should be able to pull down 15-20 inches of vacuum. AND THE LINE SHOULD HOLD THE VACUUM. 

2. no fuel should be sucked into the little bottle.  
If it doesn’t hold vacuum or you can suck out fuel then there is a hole in the metal fuel line somewhere. 
 

Remember how rusty you tank was? Is there any reason to not suspect that your fuel line might also have tiny, rusty pin holes? All it takes is a couple for you to suck air and not fuel. Sucking air and not fuel will give you all the symptoms of “vapor lock”. 
 

The car that I diagnosed? It had a partially cracked fuel line hiding behind one of the clips that held it to the frame.  Only when I unclipped the entire line did I find it. The break was inches from the pump. I cut the metal line. Added a longer rubber hose and 100% cured the “vapor lock”. 
 

on your car I would drive it around until it quit. Then I would open the hood and connect the vacuum pump and bottle to the fuel line. If you can’t fill the bottle with the hand pump, then your line/tank is plugged.  

[m-mman]

On 4/12/2023 at 8:49 AM, BryanFJ1 said:

thus will prove this set up is works and i'll need to just upgrade the fuel line to the hard one. 

If not, then everything is returnable and we will see from there. 

FYI - Purchasing parts for diagnostic purposes is a form of theft…..

Yes it happens, yes we have all done it at one time or another but we should not. 

Nobody wants to open a box and install a “new” part that has obviously been installed and removed. 

This is why parts houses have policies that say “No return on electrical parts!” 
 

Learn how to diagnose, test and prove the problem before just replacing things randomly. 

[BryanFJ1]

6 hours ago, m-mman said:

on your car I would drive it around until it quit. Then I would open the hood and connect the vacuum pump and bottle to the fuel line. If you can’t fill the bottle with the hand pump, then your line/tank is plugged.

This is actually pretty terrifying - to make it quit in the middle of the traffic.

 

So, the one man brake bleeder option is more doable i think. Don't even need to drain the tank for this test, jest need to keep that hose up in the air from it. I guess i'll run this test first... 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[m-mman]

1 minute ago, BryanFJ1 said:

This is actually pretty terrifying - to make it quit in the middle of the traffic

Well, you don’t do this on busy roads and in heavy traffic……

 

In my neighborhood I have a “test track”. A one mile loop in kinda an industrial area. Plenty of places to pull over and stop. I do laps, starting, stopping, accelerating. when the car quits, I am never more than a half mile walk back home. Sadly (expectedly?) I have walked backed many times.  
 

I think most car people have a familiar test track in their neighborhood.  
 

 Test driving is a great diagnostic tool and how you prove your repairs. 

[BryanFJ1]

8 minutes ago, m-mman said:

Well, you don’t do this on busy roads and in heavy traffic……

 

In my neighborhood I have a “test track”. A one mile loop in kinda an industrial area. Plenty of places to pull over and stop. I do laps, starting, stopping, accelerating. when the car quits, I am never more than a half mile walk back home. Sadly (expectedly?) I have walked backed many times.  
 

I think most car people have a familiar test track in their neighborhood.  
 

 Test driving is a great diagnostic tool and how you prove your repairs. 

But there is one thing that can prove that there is no leaks in the line? - remember i said that there is a check valve before the pump but after the metal line? I was observing it, that it holds the gas right at the valve, so every time i disconnect everything will run back to the tank, and it can hold it in line for weeks it think. It's not holding it at 15-20 inches of vacuum of course i think, but if there was a major leak - it wouldn't hold it at all?

 

Also, when i was there stuck at the heat and when i disconnected the hose that comes from the pump but at the check valve - i heard HISSING sound coming from the pump hose. I forgot to mention that... 

Edited April 14, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[Oldtech]

Is the tank vent plugged? may just be a hole in the cap on that age car.

[BryanFJ1]

2 minutes ago, Oldtech said:

hole in the cap

Well, the cap is not sitting there super tight. I can wiggle it when it's "closed" 

[m-mman]

Forget the add on accessories. You want to prove that the simple metal pipe that runs from the tank to the under hood area will hold a vacuum.  
it is effectively a long straw.  
Take a drinking straw, put a small hole or cut halfway between the ends.  Now try drinking through it.  You will quickly understand why the metal fuel line must not have any defects that prevent a good vacuum. 

[BryanFJ1]

3 minutes ago, m-mman said:

Forget the add on accessories. You want to prove that the simple metal pipe that runs from the tank to the under hood area will hold a vacuum.  
it is effectively a long straw.  
Take a drinking straw, put a small hole or cut halfway between the ends.  Now try drinking through it.  You will quickly understand why the metal fuel line must not have any defects that prevent a good vacuum. 

Oka okay, I'll be back with the test results on Monday i think  

[BryanFJ1]

There is one more thing that happened that day - when i opened the hood, i noticed that the kickdown linkage came off.

There was suppose to be a C shape ring that hold it on in place, but it's gone now and i can't wrap my head what are the actual name for this thing is, or where to look for a replace, or how to make one myself. 

I tried to use a carburetor linkage clamps, but these are too small... 

 

[m-mman]

Not “kick down” it is your throttle valve control rod.

 It is adjustable and should be checked.  
Perhaps you are looking for an “E clip”?