Innies and Outies, front end "nose" styles 1934-1938

[Gunsmoke]

The recent post on Phil's 1934 Buick with it's striking front radiator shell/grille, reminded me again that the 1934 year marked the end of that classic styling motif in American cars. By 1937/38, the "Innie" motif so well fashioned by the 1934 Ford and many others, was replaced by the often hideous "Outie" motif, the Cyrano de Bergerac like noses which became so common all of a sudden, with no more obvious example than the "Shark-Nosed" 37/38 Grahams.  It was a motif that would last into the post war (although if the war had not interceded it would have likely died earlier). As many know, these bulbous protuberances were often largely open spaces, and seemed to serve no meaningful engineering purpose, but were largely a styling exercise. The only successful execution of the motif IMHO was the 1937 Coffin nosed Cord. Anyone have thoughts about why the pre '35 style of rad/grill ended abruptly and the "nose style" began? (? added for clarity).

Edited August 3, 2022 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

I would describe the Cord as an "innie." Your photo proves it.

[Gunsmoke]

I agree WP, the Cord grill while referred to as "a nose" is really set back like most pre 1935 cars, typically in line with the front axle or just slightly ahead of it, and it is one of my favorite treatments and way ahead of it's time. The "experimental" Cord certainly showed that a big nose was not the way to go! With the development of V8's and a generally shorter block, one would have thought grills could have stayed in line with front axle, as there appears to be no reason for moving everything forward dramatically. I suppose there may be some weight distribution science behind overall vehicle configurations, but if so, it escapes me. 

[1937hd45]

Isn't this about the time independent front suspensions were becoming rather common except for Fords? I think that effected the sheet metal design work. 

 

Bob 

[Frank DuVal]

What's the question?

 

Look at my avatar...

[Gunsmoke]

Original post has been amended to ask the question Frank. Nice nose you've got there, they certainly draw attention, especially since virtually all makes in those days from the cowl back looked the same. 

[8E45E]

The 1935 Hoffman could be an early example of an 'outie':  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/stove-huggers-the-non-studebaker-forum/46474-orphan-of-the-day-10-18-1935-hoffman?45370-Orphan-Of-The-Day-10-18-1935-Hoffman=

 

Same with the Chrysler Airflow, and the Bendix Steel Wheel Corporation experimental car:  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/stove-huggers-the-non-studebaker-forum/110253-portland-art-museum

 

By 1939, the 'catwalk' style split grilles on either side of the pointed nose became the norm, I would think.

 

Craig

[MCHinson]

Call it whatever you want, I think the 1937 Buick front end is beautiful. 

[Scott Bonesteel]

Don't think you can blame independent front suspensions for the 'outie' phenomenon, at least at Mopar.  34 PE had independent coil front end while the 35 PJ went back to a beam (tube) front axle.

[Rusty_OToole]

 

You can blame the Chrysler Airflow.It began a new trend in chassis layout which begat a new trend in styling. They wanted to move the passenger compartment forward. By moving the rear seat forward of the rear axle instead of on top of it, they could lower the seat several inches. This allowed a lower roof line and a lower car. But they needed to move the front seat forward for the sake of rear seat leg room. This called for moving the engine forward. *The adoption of independent front suspension made it easier to move the engine forward. The end result of all this was a lower car, with a better ride as the passengers were cradled within the wheelbase. But it did require moving the radiator forward a few inches.

 

 

Compare any typical 1933 car (before Airflow) to the 1934 - 37 Airflow then compare the same make 1938 model (after Airflow). You will soon see the Airflow was a radical departure when it came out but a few years later every car copied the Airflow silhouette with chubbier fenders.

*The Airflow did not have IFS but succeeding models did, making it possible to lower the engine a few more inches.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Let Chrysler explain how the Airflow differs from all other cars. See why everyone copied it once they saw how much better it worked.

 

 

[jdome]

By the 30's, a long and large hood emphasized power & prestige. In many cases length was necessary to accommodate 6 or 8 cylinders in-line as compared to a V8.  Some of the examples posted with protruding, "outie" noses have long in-line motors. The 32 Ford was available with 4 or V8 in the same car with same length chassis and same length hood. Had Ford made a straight 8, it would have required a longer hood, chassis and/or extend the engine and nose forward of the axle.

[58L-Y8]

Prior to the Airflow, the chassis configuration dated back to the early development years of the automobile: radiator mounted at the front axle plane, then engine length and passenger accommodations proportioned along the remaining space.   As was practice from carriage building days, the rear seat passenger ended up on the platform over the rear axle plane where the ride jounced passengers the worst.  The long wheelbase luxury car chassis were designed with the objective to provide a smoother ride as well as generous passenger space as opposed to the smaller, cheaper cars

 

The sea change with the Airflow not only championed aerodynamic integrations of the body elements but also reconfigured the chassis layout by moving the engine forward over the front axle plane with the attendant benefit to move the rear seat forward and down off the rear axle plane for greatly improved ride with no compromise in legroom.  Once the Airflow brought the configuration to production, which had been prototyped by various progressive engineers prior to its introduction, the industry was quick to follow suite.   The previously prominent radiator was then hidden in the sheet metal allowing the designers to style front grilles for marque identity and sales appeal.

[Steve9]

I’ll add to Rusty’s post that the development of the hypoid rear axle allowed more room to lower the cabin of the car too. Everything was getting longer, lower and wider. 

[Gunsmoke]

The Chrysler Airflow video was very illuminating, I had probably read the stuff over the years but was not aware of it's big influence on the decisions of the other manufacturers. Not sure the others put the engine directly over front axle, but as someone mentioned, the nose forward innovation of the Airflow captured the imagination of others, and needed or not, the "Nose" was born. A collateral feature was moving the rear seat forward allowed for the development of the conventional trunk as we know it. With modrn front wheel drive and transverse engines (not to mention EV's, I suspect grills and noses will be changing again as time passes.

[Buffalowed Bill]

Just to add to the mix of the survival of the fittest, it also began the process of the obsolescence of the Straight 8. The long front end and the bobbed rear, Classic Era, bodies that we love to gaze upon, was as much as anything, the result of the advancement of the Straight 8 engine. By moving everything foreword, given a similar chassis length, provided less room for the inline engine. There are certainly other reasons for the change, which took decades before the process was complete.