Mark Kikta Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 Very nice Terry! Congratulations 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted August 16, 2022 Author Share Posted August 16, 2022 I really did not take all that many photos while I was there. I was busy answering questions and talking to people about Wind Wings on the Buick. I did get this photo of the Sears for my friend, Sandy, down in the Dallas area. Folks just do not realize how big the Marr V-12 car is. It is a BIG automobile. Hope you enjoy these few photos. In the second photo, our car is the fifth one down. I know, it's not a good shot of the car. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted August 18, 2022 Author Share Posted August 18, 2022 The 100 Year Medallion really looks nice along with the 100 Year Plaque from Horseless Carriage Club. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted August 20, 2022 Author Share Posted August 20, 2022 We put 21 miles on the car this morning. We went to the southern edge of our county before heading back. Drives like this help get things sorted out. There were two instances where we think the vacuum tank might have acted up. When Luke helped me get the carburetor adjusted properly it was discovered that the vacuum line from the manifold going into the tank lid was not being shut off properly by the needle. I sent the lid assembly back to John Wolf because the pivot pin was tight and not letting the springs close the needle into the seat. If the needle is sticking shut and not letting the tank refill, then running out of fuel is going to be the result. I want for this to be working properly before the Red Flag Tour. The car ran perfectly otherwise. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 Bring it to Hershey in October, lotta hills in PA to test it on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxgvd Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 Terry; Congratulations, she looks great. We have the same philosophy, stay close to home, short drives, repair items you find, and sort the car out before you go out in public. It's wonderful completing a tour with a new car that did not leave you sitting on the side of the road. Regards, Gary 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share Posted August 21, 2022 I am posting a couple of photos of the vacuum tank lid (or cover) assembly to show exactly what I am describing inside the tank. The first photo shows the pivot pin and post that I believe might be still hanging up and causing the needle to become stuck in the closed position. If this is the case then the tank will not have any gasoline pulled from the tank at the rear of the car. The second photo shows the needle that causes everything to work, or not work, and have the tank function as was intended. The material in the lid is the old diecast, or potmetal, that has the tendency to grow over time and has more than likely contributed to the sticking. The lid assembly in the photos is an extra that I have that is used for illustration. The pin will be knocked out and a miniature, stainless steel threaded screw will be used to hold things together. This is the only thing that has become known that is causing any problem whatsoever with the engine. Getting the car out on straight road it seems to be really happy at 25 to 30 miles per hour. We are going to do a repeat of our route that we did yesterday and we should have a tad over 100 miles on the odometer when we get back to the shop. This time we will do it in the early evening. Non-ethanol fuel is $3.80 a gallon as of this morning here in Hutchinson. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas bka Doo Dah America AACA Life Member #947918 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 I made my springs stronger by shortening them. I unhooked each spring and clipped around 1/4 inch of spring off the ends, and gave each a new hook end and re-attached them. Now they are stronger, to make up for the strength they lost over 100 years. Also, the gaskets between the lid and cover should be rubber, not cork. I know the original were cork, but that's not leak-proof like rubber is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 We covered our same route as yesterday and when we pulled back to the shop there was almost 105 miles on the odometer. I'm keeping a close watch on engine temperatures. The packing nut on the intake side of the water pump checked 134 degrees. The housing side packing nut checked 155 degrees. The top tank on the radiator checked 184 degrees. The cooling system is operating absolutely perfect. We could barely see any Red in the MotoMeter tube. I will keep a close eye on the cooling system for a while longer just to be on the safe side. The car is really happy at the 25 - 30 miles per hour clip. It rides smooth and everyone is comfortable. I want to get the vacuum tank issue squared away as soon as possible. I'm pretty sure that I know how to fix the problem. I don't think that I want to mess with those little springs. They are pretty delicate and things could get really ugly right now if the needle should get stuck in an open position. We're over half way with the break-in oil and that's pretty good since the first drive was on July 15, 2022. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Terry, Thank you for sharing the follow through. Often a car is restored or recommissioned and we hear nothing of the sorting out. This is all very good. And, of course, its wonderful to see you are enjoying the fruits of your labor! Fantastic! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 We put another 21 miles on the car early this morning. We are going to change our route tomorrow afternoon and add a few more miles this time. I am going to deal with the vacuum tank issue before our drive. The gaskets that I needed from Restoration Supply got here yesterday afternoon and now I can open and close the tank with no problems. The engine continues to run so nicely. Once the break-in oil is changed out I am absolutely positive that there will not be any thing to mess up on the Red Flag Tour. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) Terry, I was having trouble with my vacuum tank after about 500 miles. It would not keep up as I was going over a railroad bridge. The engine died shortly after cresting the top of the hill, and the ride of shame commenced on the end of a tow rope. A vacuum gauge reading will tell you a lot about what the vacuum tank is doing. I used a vacuum gauge with a plastic tee and 1/8" rubber hose to tell me the overall condition of the system. Then I used a hand held vacuum pump with a gauge to ensure that I had the little valves seating well so that I could verify the valves were holding correctly before closing up the vacuum tank. Vacuum Tank operation and checks Hugh Leidlein 8-27-22 A healthy engine and vacuum tank operating system will read 18-19 in hg vacuum at idle and with the spark lever fully advanced. My 1925 Buick was reading 19 in hg vacuum with a vacuum gauge directly on the intake manifold and the vacuum line to the tank disconnected. When I installed a plastic tee using rubber hoses into the vacuum line, I was only getting a reading of 5 in hg. This low reading indicates a vacuum leak, but where? a) Vent valve on the lid b) Vacuum valve on the lid c) Lid d) Bottom flapper e) Fuel line connections at gas tank and/or vacuum tank CLEANING Step one – using toothpaste, simichrome, or a mild polish on the valve seats for 2 minutes each. Do not just spin the valve. Using a push and a back and forth motion like a mortar and pestil. TESTING (With the vacuum lid off) – Could be checked with the lid on if gasoline is added to the vacuum tank to make the valve operate) This set up requires pulling vacuum using a mighty mac hand vacuum pump. Around $30 on Amazon or at auto parts stores. Connect a hose The test is to pull the vacuum on the valve down to 20 mm Hg, then stopwatch timing, the time that the vacuum bleeds off from 15 in hg to 0. 12 seconds on the vent valve (have to plug one hole with my finger.) Float is hanging down. 13 seconds on the fill valve. Lid is upside down Problems found a) Fuel line banjo bolt loose - you can see some yellowing (dried fuel) at the base of the banjo bolt(below right). b) Poor gasket surface on pot metal lid gas fill nozzle – rough and appears to have small cracks. (below left) Resolution Use a sharpening stone and grind/polish the gasket surface smooth Tighten fuel banjo bolts. Currently using asbestos filled copper. Consider red fiber gasket next time. Polish the 2 small vacuum valves in the lid. Filling the Vacuum tank For some reason, I had to close the manual valve after the vacuum tank to get it to really draw fuel into the tank during the priming operation. After Repairs Engine at idle (400 rpm) and full spark advance on the steering wheel levers. Vacuum fluctuates a little (a fast vibrating needle) 18-19 in Hg on the manifold connection only. With a tee (Gauge is teed into the tubing to the vacuum tank) 17-18 in Hg. So 1 inch Hg loss. At idle, with my ear on the side of the vacuum tank – A cycle occurs every 3 to 4 minutes for ~15 seconds. I can hear the springs move and the valves clicking when they change position. Gauge drops to 16 in Hg, for this 15 seconds, then recovers back to 18 in Hg. - A healthy vacuum tank system will have 0 to 1 in hg loss. - If the vacuum reading directly off the intake manifold is below 18-19 in hg, then the vacuum tank is not the cause of the low manifold vacuum. Edited August 27, 2022 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 Hugh, Thank you for the explanation about the vacuum operation. If you go back to the top photo of the vacuum tank cover and look at the pivot pin the pencil is pointing to you will see where the problem is in my system. I believe that this pivot point is sticking sometimes and it is sticking when the float is high and shutting off the vacuum to the tank. The fuel that is in the tank is used and it momentarily runs out of gas. The float then drops and the engine is back to operating as normal again. When things are operating as they should the engine runs absolutely perfect. What I am going to do is take the pin out and lightly sand the ears on the post to relieve the swelling of the old diecast material and this will allow free movement of the brass piece and allow the vacuum shutoff needle to open and close as it is supposed to do. When I can run for miles and then all of a sudden the engine dies, we coast for a bit and then all of a sudden the power comes back on, this tells me that there is a fuel supply problem. I think about two hours time and very careful use of the Dremel tool and the new gasket and things will be as they should be. Will let you guys know about the next drive. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) I also had trouble with that pin on my Nash, I had opened up the hole a bit and had solved the issue when I broke the "ears" off reassembling. In my case a new reproduction lid solved the issue. If I hadn't broke an original it would have worked also. I think you're right on about the swelling, darn stuff acts like it's alive! PS if you want some new springs for your vacuum lid I have spares in stainless I'll donate. PM me if interested. The Buick is looking great! Edited August 31, 2022 by Lahti35 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 Terry, I agree with your assessment. The pivot should "snap" back and forth every time you lift and drop the float. SU carburetors used a similar mechanism to operate their fuel pumps. Regarding these old springs, if they are weak, replace them. Stretching them and reusing them is only a temporary fix. Best to replace these inexpensive parts while the pieces are still available. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) Nah. Clipping the springs and reusing them is a permanent fix. I'll be driving my car for the next 100 years on those OE springs, new springs probably won't even work unless you are a metallurgical engineer who knows all about spring design and has a source. . . Edited September 6, 2022 by Morgan Wright (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 5, 2022 Author Share Posted September 5, 2022 The odometer turned 136 miles this afternoon. We took the car for a short drive and Barbara fixed a really nice picnic lunch and we just had a grand time. There wasn't much traffic in town (everybody has gone to the lake) so we had a nice leisurely drive to a comfortable little out of the way spot to enjoy our lunch. The car is an attention magnet wherever we go. People will honk and wave and thumbs up are all over the place. I want to get the vacuum tank looked at in the next few days. It is really running good. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxgvd Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 A leisurely drive, a picnic with the Mrs. on Labour Day. Life is grand, you lucky guy. My wife and I drove our 1976 GMC motorhome to the lake and had our lunch, too. We share the luck. Gary 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27donb Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 2 hours ago, cxgvd said: ... our 1976 GMC motorhome... Gary Any pictures you could share? An antique motorhome in use is something I don't see everyday! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickTom87 Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 On 8/15/2022 at 9:40 PM, Terry Wiegand said: I really did not take all that many photos while I was there. I was busy answering questions and talking to people about Wind Wings on the Buick. I did get this photo of the Sears for my friend, Sandy, down in the Dallas area. Folks just do not realize how big the Marr V-12 car is. It is a BIG automobile. Hope you enjoy these few photos. In the second photo, our car is the fifth one down. I know, it's not a good shot of the car. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 That looks like an amazing show !! You really don’t see that in the nyc area, wish there was a show like that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxgvd Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 Because you asked for it, not to hijack. Gary 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27donb Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 11 hours ago, cxgvd said: Because you asked for it, not to hijack. Gary Wow! Beautiful rig Gary! Thanks for sharing the photo, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 6, 2022 Author Share Posted September 6, 2022 Gary, that looks like a pretty nice rig you have there. Did those motorhomes use an Oldsmobile Toronado front wheel drive power unit? Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxgvd Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 Yes Terry: 455 Oldsmobile engine, th425, front wheel drive, 26 feet long. Built in Pontiac Mi, from 1973 to 1978, GM produced nearly 13,000 of them and about 9,000 are still on the road. There is a whole hobby around these coaches. Bev and I just acquired this one in June from the second owner and are enjoying it. Gary 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 I love those GMC motorhomes. The design was ahead of its time when they first came out and still looks modern today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 7, 2022 Author Share Posted September 7, 2022 (edited) Lahti35 sent me a couple of the little springs that he used in the vacuum tank on his Nash. He did a fantastic job of matching things up exactly. I knew that these were coming so I held off with opening up the tank again. When we drove the car yesterday it only ran out of fuel one time for us. I really believe that this fix is going to solve the problem. Photos when things are opened up. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Edited September 7, 2022 by Terry Wiegand SPELLING (see edit history) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 Well, there is not good news out in Doo Dah this evening. Lahti35 sent me the two little springs for the tank lid and they work perfectly at what they are supposed to do. The pivot point still had some slight hesitation to it and I knew that if I put things back together that way I would still have the same problem. So, the Dremel Tool got the one end of the pin buzzed flush and it was time to do some very light tapping with a blunt pointed nail to carefully push the pin out. I got it about 3/4 of the way out and both of the diecast ears broke completely off. I can just imagine that Lahti35 was thinking the same thoughts as I was when that happened to him. I have a spare lid that is going to work in the meantime. I think that I will look into the reproduction Stainless lid from the guys in Australia like he did. That will be a project for when the cold weather is here. What a bummer. I had an extra set of hands helping to hold things steady, I had a small socket backing up the opposite side, and very light taps with a small tack hammer just evidently wasn't enough to keep that old pot metal in one piece. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 The folks in Australia are not doing the tank lid that will work on our Buick. So much for that plan. The extra lid that I do have is in really nice condition and it will definitely do the job until I get something figured out about an exact replacement. I will post some photos tomorrow. The original lid has a Brass Tag on it and I would really like to keep that feature if at all possible. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 25 minutes ago, Terry Wiegand said: The folks in Australia are not doing the tank lid that will work on our Buick. So much for that plan. The extra lid that I do have is in really nice condition and it will definitely do the job until I get something figured out about an exact replacement. I will post some photos tomorrow. The original lid has a Brass Tag on it and I would really like to keep that feature if at all possible. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Can you post a photo of the brass tag? Perhaps it might be possible to create a reproduction of the brass tag for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 Matt, I will post photos of both of the lids tomorrow. I'm sure I didn't explain that right. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock10 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Can you JB weld those ears back on? I used it to fix a cracked block and stick a big hole saw bit back on the spindle. You can drill and file it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron1930 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 8 hours ago, Rock10 said: Can you JB weld those ears back on? I used it to fix a cracked block and stick a big hole saw bit back on the spindle. You can drill and file it. One of the bosses on my tank lid broke off clean a few years back, I glued it back on with JB weld, it seems to last about 3 years and it gets loose again maybe from heat and fuel? (mine is mounted on the intake manifold). I redo it and go on my merry way even though I do have another one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 Rock, unfortunately the ears just crumbled into a lot of little pieces. The configuration of the bottom side of the lid results in a few really thin pieces that do not lend themselves to strength even when these parts were brand new. The extra lid that I have is in really nice condition and it will do the job until I can figure out what we want to do about sourcing the correct replacement part. Photos to come. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) As promised, here are two photos of the vacuum tank covers. The Black painted one with the Brass Tag is original to the car. The un-painted (replacement) one is going to be put into service until I can get something figured out for a lid that will accept the tag. The critical thing is the placement of the threaded bosses and especially the vent tube location. The vent is very important to the proper operation of the tank. I am hoping that this will be the last thing that will have to be dealt with toward having the car run extremely well and have no problems. We are ready for the Red Flag Tour next week. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Edited September 16, 2022 by Terry Wiegand GRAMMAR (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 15 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said: I got it about 3/4 of the way out and both of the diecast ears broke completely off. I can just imagine that Lahti35 was thinking the same thoughts as I was when that happened to him. I have a spare lid that is going to work in the meantime. I think that I will look into the reproduction Stainless lid from the guys in Australia like he did. That will be a project for when the cold weather is here. What a bummer. I had an extra set of hands helping to hold things steady, I had a small socket backing up the opposite side, and very light taps with a small tack hammer just evidently wasn't enough to keep that old pot metal in one piece. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 I'm sorry to hear that Terry, I know the pain well. Sounds like a repeat of my fun. Looking at your replacement lid and your original lid I wonder if it would be possible to sand off the raised lettering and just transfer your brass tag over to that? Maybe it would work then? Or is there something on the backside cast into the original lid for those two brass screws to avoid opening a hole into the chamber and creating a potential vacuum leak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Terry, Do you have a photo of the back side and where it broke? I am looking at the underside of one of mine, and there are basically 2 pivots. If either one failed, a replacement bracket could be fabricated. There is also enough thickness in the lid to drill and tap a hole to mount a bracket. Hugh Copyright © 2022, Antique Automobile Club of America. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 The Brass Tag was used on a lid that was specific for that tag. There are two areas that have extra material for the drilled and tapped holes that accept the little screws that hold the tag on. As soon as I get this posting done I will take a photo or two to show how things went back together. At this time I will ask if there might be anyone out there reading this that has a lid like my original one that they would be willing to part with. I have been told that the Stewart-Warner Vacuum Tanks with the Brass Tag on them were used on the early Buicks. I would really like to keep the car as close to original as possible. Thank you for any help that might be sent my way. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Terry Wiegand said: There are two areas that have extra material for the drilled and tapped holes that accept the little screws that hold the tag on. As soon as I get this posting done I will take a photo or two to show how things went back together. That's what I wondered, I kinda figured there might be something there. I can totally understand keeping it original, a man after my own heart! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 I got everything back together in the lid. I even applied some LubriPlate white grease on the post and Brass bracket before running the little machine screw through them. With the new little springs in place everything works just like a charm. There is absolutely no hesitation for the needle to close off the vacuum from the manifold - it kinda snaps open and closed like it is supposed to. I'm thinking that the grease is going to stay put for a very long time. A BIG Thank You to Lahti35 for those little springs. They certainly went a long way in helping the situation get resolved. I am anxious now to drive the car and not have it run out of fuel in the vacuum tank. We just do not want it acting up in any way on the tour next week. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 The vacuum tank has been put back together and I am satisfied that it is going to function as it should. I want to drive the car on our 21 mile route and know that the tank is working perfectly. We have a slight problem with that right now. Hutchinson is the home of the Kansas State Fair. The Fair started a week ago today and runs through Sunday. I really don't want to get the car out on any street until Sunday. The town is absolutely full of old western Kansas Farmers who are used to driving right down the middle of the road and not giving a crap about who they run off the road. We will wait until Sunday afternoon and give it a good run. I am happy with how this turned out in spite of the broken cover. We'll keep everyone up to date before we leave for the tour. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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