rocketraider Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Picture this. Pick any 60s Y/Z car you prefer and outfit it like this. -Chevrolet's RamJet fuel injection feeding -Oldsmobile's turbocharger on -Buick's aluminum V8 driving -Pontiac's rope drive and four-speed transaxle thru -Corvair's updated rear independent suspension And walla! American Porsche in the 1960s! Nah, American general buying public would never have understood such an enthusiast-based car in the 1960s. But boy wouldn't it have been fun to drive! Strangely, the General has pretty much made all of the above happen 60 years later with the Corvette. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 On 2/22/2022 at 9:38 PM, Frank DuVal said: Or the FACT that the Corvair Spyder was THE FIRST production turbocharged American car in recent time, NOT the Olds!😲 Read through this: http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,1015870,page=2 Ah, controversy of the non-political type!😁 Hey, at least Corvairs did not require Turbo Rocket fluid, so the turbocharged models stayed in production for 5 model years! Many Jetfires were de-turboed by dealers due to complaints. i owned a 1962 Chevy Corvair Monza Spyder Turbocharged and 4 speed trans 30 years ago, loved the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 7 hours ago, Pfeil said: One of the things Chevrolet should have known and would have really taken down the sails of Nader was something Porsche/VW and Pontiac division knew about the swing axle systems. The Corvairs 13" wheels really put the swing axle design at a disadvantage- also combined was weight bias. Originally the "Y" body Tempest was to have a trans axle and engine in the back and Knudsen rejected this outright. The very early VW Beetle and 356 Porsche were equipped with 16" wheels, later revised to 15" wheels. DeLorean knew the reason why such small cars had such large diameter wheels and so equipped the Tempest (the only "Y" body car) with 15" wheels instead of 13's. Corvairs problem with wheel tuck under certain cornering conditions was reduced in the Tempest transaxle by just increasing the wheel diameter. By doing this the tuck angle is reduced by forcing the incidence to happen in the most severe condition, certainly a compromise that worked for VW, Porsche, and Tempest. When it became time to promote Pontiacs general manager Bunkie Knudsen from General Manager of Pontiac to General Manager of Chevrolet, Knudsen said that he would not take the job unless he was able to fix Corvair. After he became GM of Chevrolet at the end of the 1961 production, he had suspension changes made to the swing axle and was determined to make Corvair have a double-jointed axel system which is what finally happened. VW and Porsche also went to double jointed system and while Chevrolet used universal joints (like Corvette) Porsche and VW chose to use constant velocity joints. A promoted Pontiac General Manager fixes a major Chevy problem, awesome job Bunkie Knudsen !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playerpage Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 jensenracing77, if you can't believe a photo right in front of you, there is little hope you would believe it if you see it in person. But here is a place you can do an exhaustive amount of research:https://www.facebook.com/meetthecorvairmakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 On 7/26/2022 at 5:42 PM, playerpage said: jensenracing77, if you can't believe a photo right in front of you, there is little hope you would believe it if you see it in person. But here is a place you can do an exhaustive amount of research:https://www.facebook.com/meetthecorvairmakers Again, I can only go by the information that the GM Heritage center has. Hard to dispute that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 Eric - not sure if you have seen this.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avanti Bill Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 I have one and It runs well although I'm not sure I ever got that reaction from my wife or girl friend when I hit the accelerator. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 Hey guys, "Collectible Automobile" February 2023 has an article on the 61-63 F-85's, prototypes to Jetfire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 45 minutes ago, Pfeil said: Hey guys, "Collectible Automobile" February 2023 has an article on the 61-63 F-85's, prototypes to Jetfire. Don’t you love magazine’s that come out before the year has even begun! A Feb issue in the previous Dec is just ridiculous. Sorry just an old circulation guy looking at problems that causes for the clerical department and customer service. dave s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 On 12/27/2022 at 8:22 AM, SC38dls said: Don’t you love magazine’s that come out before the year has even begun! A Feb issue in the previous Dec is just ridiculous. Sorry just an old circulation guy looking at problems that causes for the clerical department and customer service. dave s Doesn't really matter to me. The important thing is they covered it. When was the last time a magazine did an article on a 61-63 F-85? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 55er Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 For the record there were 1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire articles in February 2017 Collectible Automobile and March-April 1996 Special Interest Autos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 On 12/23/2022 at 1:09 PM, STEVE POLLARD said: Eric - not sure if you have seen this.... Yes, I am really glad this survived. I do wish it could be properly restored. I was offered an original film roll of this but they wanted $250 for it and could not guarantee the film was still good. I turned it down. I would hate to guess how much it would cost to have restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 On 12/23/2022 at 1:09 PM, STEVE POLLARD said: Eric - not sure if you have seen this.... What I want to find more than anything is one of these signs in working order. I have this cover to one but I want the full think like this You Tube video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 On 12/28/2022 at 12:49 PM, Pfeil said: Doesn't really matter to me. The important thing is they covered it. When was the last time a magazine did an article on a 61-63 F-85? This car was in Hot Rod magazine in 2015. It was more a story about it being a "Garage find" parked in 1974. This one and my wifes car was in Hot Rod again in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Look for Eric's car in the January 2023 issue of Antique Automobile. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) On 2/25/2022 at 2:32 PM, rocketraider said: Picture this. Pick any 60s Y/Z car you prefer and outfit it like this. -Chevrolet's RamJet fuel injection feeding -Oldsmobile's turbocharger on -Buick's aluminum V8 driving -Pontiac's rope drive and four-speed transaxle thru -Corvair's updated rear independent suspension And walla! American Porsche in the 1960s! Nah, American general buying public would never have understood such an enthusiast-based car in the 1960s. But boy wouldn't it have been fun to drive! Strangely, the General has pretty much made all of the above happen 60 years later with the Corvette. I would rather use Pontiac's version of fuel injection, especially the 58 version with that turbo. I would rather use the Olds turbo on the Olds headed V-8 I would rather use the three-speed transaxle instead of the four-speed, When Tempest received the 336" V-8 in 1963 you could not get the four-speed transaxle because it wasn't strong enough. I would use an intercooler. Edited January 2, 2023 by Pfeil (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) I didn't realized that they were out in '63 as well..... currently on ebay..... Edited January 2, 2023 by STEVE POLLARD (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 You neeeed one of those! And a supply of this to go with it! Eric, what are you using in your fluid injection tank? This stuff is mostly methanol but I'm sure there were other ingredients in the emulsion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Meth and distilled water, and a little bit of oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Eric has a story on his Leno visit (and ride in Jay's 1907 White Steamer!) in Jan 2023 Journey With Olds (Oldsmobile Club of America's magazine). Looking forward to West's Antique Automobile feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalowed Bill Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Looking back on it know, I find it sad that the smaller GM platform only lasted three years. I owned a 1963 Cutlass convertible for about a year in 1967. It was just a 4bl model but it would keep up with some V8's that had somewhat greater displacements. I gave it up in partial trade for a 1964 Avanti. I find myself thinking about that car as much as any post-war car that I have owned and let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Market forces did that. Ford proved conventional sells over innovative with Falcon. Then they dropped a bomb with the new midsize Fairlane and Meteor in 1962 and created a whole new class of car, again quite conventional. GM answered with the midsize Chevelle in 1964 and the BOPettes grew up into (you guessed it) very conventional but wildly successful intermediates. It's telling that Chevrolet answered Falcon with Chevy II in 1962, which except for the 4-cylinder option was totally conventional. It also outsold Corvair handily until Chevelle appeared and cut into its market. Wonder what the MBAs would have thought of THAT lineup, since their 1970s-later mantra loudly insisted GM had too many brands and platforms? When it was obvious the problem wasn't too many brands, it was too many brands that were exactly the same behind the emblem on the grille- which itself was a response to MBA "direction" beating the drum for consolidation and cost-cutting. But that takes us into a different era of automaking.🙂🙃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/10/2023 at 1:10 AM, rocketraider said: Eric has a story on his Leno visit (and ride in Jay's 1907 White Steamer!) in Jan 2023 Journey With Olds (Oldsmobile Club of America's magazine). Looking forward to West's Antique Automobile feature. I had forgot that they were doing one. After the video was out, they contacted me to see if I wanted to do a story on it. I put something down and sent it and they wanted more. This happened a couple times till it ended up being longer than I remember. That one is more focused on the overall trip. It truly was the most enjoyable trip/vacation we ever had. Even without the video or Jay, it was a fantastic trip. Was not cheap but worth every penny. I just forgot that they were doing this till it come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/10/2023 at 9:27 AM, rocketraider said: Market forces did that. Ford proved conventional sells over innovative with Falcon. Then they dropped a bomb with the new midsize Fairlane and Meteor in 1962 and created a whole new class of car, again quite conventional. GM answered with the midsize Chevelle in 1964 and the BOPettes grew up into (you guessed it) very conventional but wildly successful intermediates. It's telling that Chevrolet answered Falcon with Chevy II in 1962, which except for the 4-cylinder option was totally conventional. It also outsold Corvair handily until Chevelle appeared and cut into its market. The new-for-1964 'A' bodies were separate body-on-frame construction, while the 'X' body Chevy II was unit-body. With the exception of the Pontiac Acadian in Canada, the 'X' body Chevy II was exclusive to Chevrolet Motor Division until 1971 when the Ventura II came out, and 1973 when the Oldsmobile Omega came out, and later in the year, Buick Apollo was introduced. That rounded out the badge-engineered X-body to all divisions if one counts the Cadillac Seville in mid-1975. Craig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/2/2023 at 10:47 AM, rocketraider said: Eric, what are you using in your fluid injection tank? This stuff is mostly methanol but I'm sure there were other ingredients in the emulsion. I mix my own. I have the formula documents from the engineers. I have a letter also from Helen Early that was sent to the engineer in the late 80's asking him what the correct formula was and also have his reply. I also found the actual GM documents for the mix dated 1961 at the GM Heritage center. We knew what it was before but I did change the oil I use after finding the documents. It is 50/50 methanol and distilled water with some water soluble oil in it. The oil is needed to prevent the diaphragms from drying out and to prevent corrosion to the metal parts. Here is a video I made on it but it is set to unlisted. I need to make a new video because I said the wrong oil quantity in this. You can only see it with this link. Note to any Jetfire guys, The oil amount is wrong in this video. https://studio.youtube.com/video/T14ObUmopYw/edit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 As a side note, Maybe I mentioned this in the thread already. After filming, Jay took us for a drive in his 1907 White steam car. We lost steam pressure and had to do a little work on the side of the road to get it burning correct again. This is the problem he was working on in November when he got burned. When he was in the hospital we exchanged a couple texts and he confirmed then that it was this car. I am so glad he recovered so well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 J/F 2023 Antique Automobile came today, with a pretty little maroon Oldsmobile on the cover! West captured the perfect camera angle that shows off the aggressiveness of the Jetfire's front end styling. Kinda like a small raptor! I have realized Eric is more of a diplomat than ol' Raider.😏 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Thanks for the compliments, Glenn. I try very hard to capture the best angle on every car I photograph, so I'm glad someone notices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Right up to date with this 1962 Oldsmobile story. That was the year Marilyn Monroe died, Now, we all know about the Jetfire Olds too. After seeing this thread an watching Jay's Garage show, I recognized it on the Cover our our favorite magazine, right away/ Thanks to Jay & West. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 WOW! It did not even cross my mind that it would be put on the cover! I sure had fun that day and was shocked at the attention it got. I just wish there was still an AACA show near me. I was tossing around the idea of going to Hershey this year but I already have to much going on this year to work that in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Rats! Now I know why I don't have my copy. I forget that membership is January to January. First time I signed up was in March and I keep thinking that I renew in March. I just renewed but I suspect I will miss my copy of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I think you'll probably still get it. It just started arriving in peoples' mailboxes. If you don't get one soon, let me know. Also, there will be an AACA show in Auburn again this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I did not see it on the event calendar yet. Do you know the date for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 July 6-8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 5 hours ago, West Peterson said: July 6-8 Cool, I plan to make it there again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 It is official, My wife and I will be at Auburn! She is excited to see any of the pre war stuff that shows up. She LOVES pre war cars 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Look forward to seeing you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 On 1/19/2023 at 9:02 PM, West Peterson said: I think you'll probably still get it. It just started arriving in peoples' mailboxes. If you don't get one soon, let me know. Also, there will be an AACA show in Auburn again this year. Is there a way to get a copy of this after the fact? I still never got mine. Likely because I forgot to renew at the beginning of the year. I would actually like to get 2 copies if I can buy them. One for the car and one for my personal collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 On 1/28/2023 at 1:14 PM, jensenracing77 said: Is there a way to get a copy of this after the fact? I still never got mine. Likely because I forgot to renew at the beginning of the year. I would actually like to get 2 copies if I can buy them. One for the car and one for my personal collection Call Lori at HQ. 717-534-1910 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenracing77 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Thank you! Saturday I start my next Jetfire adventure. Making a 1400 mile round trip to pick up a 63 Jetfire 4 speed. I will make a new thread on that car. It will not be a full restoration, Just making it road worthy again after sitting for 40 years. A light cosmetic restoration under the hood and detailed the rest. Short term project and drive it about 1000 miles to be sure it is all reliable again and then sell it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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