Overdrives for early 30's Lincoln

[28anut]

Newbie here, I ordered a Gear Venders overdrive, only to find out AFTER I ordered it, that the driveshaft on my '31 Lincoln is off center to the torque tube.  What to do?  No one I've talked with comes right out and says it can't be done, but no one is encouraging it either.  How bout a repop high speed ring & pinion ?  I hear they are out there, but where?  I need a good education from those of you who have been here and done that.

 

Thanks in advance

[edinmass]

Gear sets can be manufactured for about 5k one at a time, maybe a little less. The early Lincoln’s are nice cars, but it’s basically a 1921 platform, so you don’t want  to drive it too fast......and the fork and blade rods don’t like to spin too fast either. I have no clue as to the gear vendor and a Lincoln torque tube.......been too many years since I have been under a early example. There are a few Lincoln guys here, most seem to be 33 and later. Linus my be able to chime in. Expectations and reality can clash on early platforms. Your location.......roads, and traffic can influence weather or not going faster is a good idea. Please post a photo of your car, and a short paragraph on how you intend to use it.

Edited February 18, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[28anut]

I purchased David Shultz's  '31 Dietrich Conv. Sedan at Hershey this year.  Absolutely love the car and drive it weekly around town.  However, I would like to prepare it to drive to the Lincoln 100 this summer.  I have never trailered a car.  I love the adventure of driving vintage.  But I have been rear ended back in 1988 by a modern car doing 70+mph while my Model A was cruising at 55, so I don't want to do that again, and I do want to lower the rpm's to avoid an engine disaster.

[alsancle]

I always liked that car. Don’t put whitewalls on it.  I would think one of the Lincoln guys should have advice.

[Marty Roth]

Our cars with Overdrive give the option of easy low speed and parade use, as well as hills while carrying loads, and also offer 30% reduction in engine rpm at touring speeds (no need for interstate hwy).

Other of our cars have had new numerically lower ratio differential ring and pinion gears manufactured by REMPCO in Cadillac, Michigan

I gone both ways with our cars, and both can be satisfactory.

We are serious tour drivers, ranging from Brass era to the newer stuff.

 

You're not doing this change just to get more speed, as it could easily exceed your brakes' capability.

Rempco Inc

Address: 251 Bell Ave, Cadillac, MI 49601

Phone: (231) 775-0108

 

 

https://www.rempco.comREMPCO Precision Machine Tool Replacement Parts

REMPCO Inc. is a leading manufacturer and supplier of precision lead screws, gears, and custom products for industrial machinery.

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Marty Roth
additional note (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Beautiful Lincoln! Sorry, I have no solid advice to your current dilemma. Looks like Marty R has made some excellent comments.

One of my longtime best friends had a 1925 Lincoln seven passenger sedan (he passed away too young about eight years ago). He put high speed gears in that car, and drove it a lot! I often drove the car when he got too sleepy to be safe. My longtime battle with insomnia gave me more hours of being able to make the drives home from meets we would attend together. We often drove that car somewhat over 55 mph, however, he also had to do more work on the motor than I thought was reasonable. I suspect the higher speeds he would drive it were part of the reason for needing to repair the fork and blade rods a few times.

One night, I was driving almost 55, some bone-brain in a Ford Mustang fell asleep at the wheel doing at least 80mph rear-ended us! He went from barely visible on the long straight open freeway (must have been at least a mile back?) to hit us in it seemed like a lot less than a minute (although since I wasn't looking at my watch I don't know how long it really was?). We weren't going very slow, so he had to be going really fast! The front third of the Mustang was completely destroyed! That car was totaled. Total cost to repair the damage to the Lincoln (in mid 1970s dollars?!)? $350.

Still. I do not recommend getting hit if you can avoid it.

 

As far as braking ability? The 1931 Lincoln should have very good brakes on all four wheels, PROVIDED that they are properly restored, adjusted, and maintained! It is still a lot of weight to bring down to a stop from higher speeds, and like with all antique automobiles, proper care should always be taken.

When dealing with era mechanical brakes? It still amazes me how few people understand how to adjust them. The angle of each and every lever or arm is critically important! I love mechanical brake automobiles.

[28anut]

Rest assured everyone.  This car will never have whitewalls.  Thanks Marty for the Rempco lead.

[pmhowe]

And what a beautiful car! I hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction.

PMH

[edinmass]

Dave is a good guy and long time friend. That’s a great car. I think I would go with a ring and pinion. Why modify it with an overdrive..... a gear set should do the trick and you still look stock. I would probably go to 3.9 to 1.

[John Kelso]

I recall Ray Therault had a set of gears on his Hershey table, not sure of the year. You can contact him through the LOC.

[Matt Harwood]

There's also someone in the "Fork & Blade" magazine advertising high speed gears for sale.

[Mark Gregush]

Couldn't off set flanges be mounted to the torque tube so the input/outputs for the over drive would line up?

[Linus Tremaine]

locally a machinist has been trying to install an overdrive in his 31. IT is not impossible, but it is a massive ammount of work. I think he may have given up and he is one of the more tenacious people I know. Basically he was going to make entirely new torque tubes with offset flanges, jigs, drive shafts etc etc. It is not really worth it. 

 

Recently another friend installed high speed R&P in his 26 and he loves it. I was originally planning to put a mitchell unit in my 30 but now I plan to do high speed R&P. Even the mitchell unit was difficult to do. I know two model L cars with mitchell units and one of them was done by mitchell when they still did it. He made new torque tubes for that car and told the owner he would never do it again. 

L

 

 

 

[Laura S]

Beautiful Lincoln . My friend Patrick has a 1929 Lincoln that was used in the Great Race . He might know of someone or something about me gears . Pm me for his number 

[AB-Buff]

I’m not sure if I should weigh in on this stuff or not. I have never put an overdrive in the Lincoln however I put one in a 1933 Chevy. Which was more work than probably putting it in the driveline of a Lincoln. I don’t see why you couldn’t use an offset flange as Mark suggested.  There are pros and cons to both overdrive and rear end gear changes. My 35 Lincoln has a 3.33:1 in it. That’s a pretty tall gear. But I can cruise down the freeway at 70 miles an hour pretty effortlessly. On the other hand when I get in the hills I would love to be able to knock it down to the standard third gear instead of the 3.33:1. Although being pretty tall gearing it does OK. With the overdrive you would have a five speed transmission. First over is not really an option but you have a second, second over, third and third over. That makes a pretty nice set up. The downfall would be if you take it and have it judged anywhere when they looked underneath they would see the unit. That’s something you would have to consider if you’re into that sort of thing. I’m going to attach the link that shows what I went through to made a 1946–48 Lincoln overdrive to the back of my Chevy transmission. It was a lot of work a lot of thought, I absolutely love the set up. I have over 7000 miles on the car now and it’s a lot of fun to drive. In some of the photos you’ll see the adapter plate between Chevy and Lincoln. Basically an offset flange. I also had to make a whole new transmission shift to go from Chevy to Lincoln. 

https://www.americanbantam.com/Vintage-Chevrolet-Club-of-America-VCCA/34-Chevy-to-46-Borg-Warner-OD/n-GVnTg

 

[28anut]

Rempco does not do altered gear ratios anymore.  They only copy what you presently have.  No spare stock on shelves.

[AB-Buff]

1 hour ago, 28anut said:

Rempco does not do altered gear ratios anymore.  They only copy what you presently have.  No spare stock on shelves.

I think if you looked around you’d find it there is more than one gear cutter or gear vendor in the United States. I’m in California and there used to be one in Stockton that was very good. I don’t know if they’re still in business. Every time I went to a tool  tradeshow there was always a couple of Vendors that cut gears.

[AB-Buff]

Just recently got my Lincoln Owners Club magazine. And the in the want ads there is a man by the name of Edward Linn and he is having cluster gears made, first and reverse gear for model K. You might call him and ask him who he’s using.

[28anut]

To Laura S.  Being a new member, I do not have enough credits to use the PM feature of this forum.  I can't reply directly to you.

[28anut]

I've located some new 3.93 gears and some new 3.53 gears.  Does anyone have experiences or advice?  I have a strong motor.

[Matt Harwood]

3.93 should give you pretty comfortable 60 MPH cruising. The 3.53 would be better but it would really kill low-end pulling power so you'd lose that top gear effortlessness and maybe sacrifice some clutch life for higher cruising speeds.

 

Can you tell us where you found the gears? Are they one-offs?

[28anut]

I have found and received advice from guys who have a 3.9, 3.77, and a 3.53.    The 3.9 and a 3.5 gears were advertised in the last Fork & Blade.  There is also another 3.5 available from Ray Theriault but it's not currently advertised.  The 3.7 & 3.5 are tall but seem to work in the V-12's but not so much with the V-8. (a 3.5 was satisfactory in a 1937 Lincoln according to one respondent)

 

One respondent said........................................

My 1931 Lincoln original rear end was 4.58, I changed to 3.77 and it was too much. With 120 HP, it wouldn't get out of it's own way. Didn’t have enough power to push car along, e.g. merging onto freeway. I switched to 3.96 and changed driving pattern to accommodate higher RPM capability of V-8 (up to 4500 on chassis dyno). and was very happy with it. Great 2nd gear.
I believe peak torque was in the 3500 range. Easy cruising at 2000-2500. I could push easily to 75 mph with new gearing. Not my typical speed but I was testing fuel pump pressure which was dropping off during high speed acceleration. Rebuild by Terrill Machine fixed it
My real driving lesson from dyno testing was to stop driving it like a straight 8. The V8 liked to rev. My range during dyno testing was 400 rpm to 4500 rpm and back down. Smooth all the way.
I found by ‘kicking it’ a little more with the new rear end that very well built, heavy car performed much better. Good luck,

 

Hope this info helps

[AB-Buff]

Linus Tremaine has a 1930. I believe it’s the same engine in the 31K. You might try calling him and asking him what his thoughts are. He drives his quite a bit.

Lynn

[F&J]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2022 at 8:28 PM, Matt Harwood said:

3.93 should give you pretty comfortable 60 MPH cruising. The 3.53 would be better but it would really kill low-end pulling power so you'd lose that top gear effortlessness and maybe sacrifice some clutch life for higher cruising speeds.

Matt is the only one so far to talk about clutch, which hints to the following:

 

Nobody mentioned transmission internal ratios yet?

 

Any early 30s car has their First Gear and Reverse Gear ratios matched to their high-4.00's axle ratios. Those 2 transmission gears are "geared UP" on purpose so that the car was fast enough in First and Reverse.   If you put too much gear in the rear axle, that car will feel like you are trying to start off in Second gear, and it will also be a bit too fast when trying to drive in reverse.  Plus having to ride the clutch and gas just to get moving, really makes the car feel very "wrong" and the clutch will suffer too, like Matt warns.

 

Next issue in picking rear axle ratio is what terrain? Flat land mostly? that's a huge plus.  If hill country, and on the Interstates, too much rear gear and not enough motor, then you hit a long hill and will feel panic as the car rapidly loses road speed.  If the hill is a real grinder, you run out of motor completely and then you are forced to drop to Second and now you are screaming in the breakdown lane.   50 years ago, the 18 wheelers would gain speed before hitting a hill, that's not a fun way to be forced to drive if you chose the wrong rear ratio for hill country.  JMO