Came to a realization- The Changing State of Motoring

[m-mman]

I took my 1929 Cadillac on the recent Holiday car excursion. (around Pasadena CA) It is very much a 40 MPH car and with the original Johnson carb it is a leisurely and unpredictable acceleration just to up to that speed.  This was the longest that I have driven it and on the most varied terrain (up & down hills)  

Turns out the uncomfortable feeling was not caused by the car it was ME! 

 

Starting out I was frightened and unsure and I just could not shift my mind to traveling in an ancient car at ancient speeds and performance.  I pull away from a light and I wanted to keep up with the other cars when accelerating. (it aint gonna do that) BUT I quickly realized that they were all waiting for me at the next light anyway! This happened light after light, stop after stop. 

 

After about 4 hours of driving I eventually altered MY PERCEPTIONS and became in synch with the car and and things were fine. The car didn't change, I had to change. 

 

On the tour was a nice couple who drove their 23 T coupe in from Santa Monica, completed the 30 mile tour and drove it back home. (no trailer)  This is LA, how did they get from here to there without the freeway?? Hint they used surface streets. Streets that were laid out in the 1920s. They were very confident in their car but more importantly they were completely accepting of the cars' capabilities and expected no more from it than it could give. 

 

People complain that their old car doesn't "drive like a new one". That should not be much of a surprise. 

A child cannot do what an adult can. 

An old person cant work as hard as a young person.

If you try to make them preform at those levels all it will do is frustrate YOU.

Take things as they are. Slow down and become one with your car. Accept it for what IT IS, not what the industry produces today. 

 

At the end of the day I sure felt more confident (and when the sun comes out again) I think I can drive my 90 year old car with less worry and concern.  The inadequacies are mine, not the car's 

 

But I do need to learn to navigate LA without using the freeways. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by m-mman (see edit history)

[ply33]

21 minutes ago, m-mman said:

. . . But I do need to learn to navigate LA without using the freeways. 

Look for the motor scooter option that is available on some routing apps/websites. Not always the best choice on routes but can give you some ideas.

 

Here is an example: https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point=Santa Monica%2C United States&point=Pasadena%2C United States&locale=en-us&elevation=true&profile=scooter&use_miles=true&selected_detail=Elevation&layer=Omniscale

[Rivguy]

Back when I was a youngster, I drove small motorcycles at first. My Honda 50 was a bit too small even for surface street traffic. When I made the jump up to a Honda 160 I had a bike that could hit 70 mph, flat  out and would cruise at 55-60 mph. This was fast enough and powerful enough to ride comfortably on country highways and back roads. I stayed off freeways as much as possible except for short connecting hops when there wasn't an alternative. I would think that a car that can achieve 75-85 mph, would be able to be driven on almost any highway in much the same way. I have never had a real old car that could not keep up at reasonable speeds. My older cars were '50s Cadillacs and they could go as fast as I ever wanted! There are navigation apps that will choose a route that avoids freeways. I used that once to take surface streets from Downtown LA to where I was staying in Anaheim. Kind of fun seeing what I missed on the freeway. 

[keithb7]

Latest posts here remind me of another related topic that I want to comment on. 
Engine HP, torque and freeway travel. 
 

I keep reading about folks wanting to change the old car axle gearing. Wheel size too so they can travel at higher speeds. It seems so short-sited to me. Who here likes travelling 70+ mph in any pre-war typical mass production car? No safety engineering. Skinny tires. Brakes & steering that are designed to work at typical road conditions and speeds typical of 1937?
 

Can an average mid-30’s. Coupe or Sedan, with a swapped-in crown & pinion overcome wind resistance at 70 mph? I am doubtful. Pretty considerable load to push through all that wind. How can an under 100 HP flathead make enough power?  If you did manage to get it to 70 steering, handling and stopping are frightening. Let alone you will not survive any abrupt stop, impact or roll over. 
 

To each their own I guess. I suppose once you repair & understand leaf springs, worm gear steering, single reservoir master, and more, you loose the urge to hit modern interstate speeds. 

[Grimy]

I'm in the middle here.  My 1925 Pierce-Arrow 80, owned since 1994 and with more than 20k miles of mine on it, has the deepest of three ratios available, 4.88.  Comfortable cruising speed was 36-37 and the engine was screaming at 40-41.  The other (now departed) S80 had 4.45s, the tallest gearset available that year, and could comfortably cruise at 45 mph.  So I installed a Mitchell 26% OD which brings the effective ratio to 3.61 but the 4.88 is available when needed, and in OD comfortable cruising is 48-49 mph.  I want to minimize the stress on the engine but not to cruise above 45-48 mph, but need to be able to exceed the 40 mph minimum on interstates when such roads are essential.  I have another 26% Mitchell on the shelf to install in the 1922 Paige, which is now all out of string at 40--and to do so for the same purpose.

[Rivguy]

I've often wondered about how fast cars were driven back in the old days. I know that they didn't have high top speeds, but what were the cruising speeds like for stock cars when they were new? I know that the highway system was much more primitive and higher speeds were definitely unsafe. I've read several books about historical motoring and I know that people took Model Ts all over the place even if it took them hours to reach their destination driving at 35 mph. By the time that '32 Ford V8s and '36 Buick Centurys came around I imagined that  cruising speeds were up to 50 mph. on suitable roadways. It would be helpful for someone like me, that is unfamiliar with pre war cars, if owners could share the top speed and cruising speeds of various vintage automobiles. 

[keithb7]

My '38 Chrysler coupe has 3.90 rear gears and overdrive.  On modern hi-ways I am pretty comfortable up to 60 mph. It feels rock solid at 55. Over 60 it gets a little light feeling and "float-y".  I am however used to driving modern cars too. With better handling, suspension, steering and safety features. So I am biased towards safety. I know what "better" feels like. In 1938 did the average driver know better? I am doubtful. Maybe at 65 or 70 they were like, this is great! Wow.

[John_S_in_Penna]

55 minutes ago, Rivguy said:

I've often wondered about how fast cars were driven back in the old days. I know that they didn't have high top speeds, but what were the cruising speeds like for stock cars when they were new? 

I have some answers for you, some right out of the past!

I've done research and printed a few articles in our regional

AACA newsletter.  Here are some speeds of the past, that

will make you appreciate what we have today:

 

---Pioneers traveling west in covered wagons would

     cover 8 miles of often strenuous travel in a typical long, 

     arduous day. [From a day-by-day diary of an actual

     pioneer.]

---19th Century canal boats traveled 1.5 to 5 m.p.h.

---Stage coaches on established routes could reach

     6 to 8 m.p.h. when they found good roads.  Legislation

     establishing some roads required that stumps in the

     road be no higher than 1 foot off the ground for such a purpose!

---An old ad c. 1900 for Hanynes-Apperson (see below)

     described 15 m.p.h. as "speeding away."

---In the 1916 Locomobile Instruction Book, various state speed

     limits were listed.  Pennsylvania's was typical:  Speed Limit

     24 m.p.h. on the open road, 12 m.p.h. in town.

---From Popular Science Monthly, February 1930:

     "In 1910 the average speed on improved highways was 

     about 20 miles per hour.  It increased one mile an hour

     each year till 1928, when it reached 38 miles an hour."

---In 1928, the Jordan Motor Car company did a survey.

     They found that 90% of people never drove more than

     40 to 45 m.p.h., though they liked to have reserve capability

     for quick acceleration from a stop, for emergencies, and

     for ample power on hills.

Edited December 31, 2021 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[TerryB]

The owners manual for my 1937 Dodge MC 1/2 ton pickup stated the maximum safe speed for it was 45 mph.  With its stock gearing and braking I think they were spot on for the speed.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Here's the article about Jordan's speed survey.

I happened to find it on the BACK of another

clipping in the AACA Library files:

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[61polara]

44 minutes ago, Rivguy said:

I've often wondered about how fast cars were driven back in the old days. I know that they didn't have high top speeds, but what were the cruising speeds like for stock cars when they were new?

If you look at speed limits as cruising speed, except for two times that has been set by individual states.  During WWII the Federal government imposed a 35 mph speed limit and in the 1970's a 55 mph national speed limit.  A rough rule to determine the cruising speed at at the time a car was new, is to look at the speedometer.  Half the maximum speed shown on the speedometer would be the typical cruising speed.  This was done for ease of reading, with the needle straight up.

[8E45E]

When the Pennsylvania Turnpike opened in 1940, it had a posted speed limit of 70 miles an hour.

 

Craig

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Rivguy said:

By the time that '32 Ford V8s and '36 Buick Centurys came around I imagined that cruising speeds were up to 50 mph. on suitable roadways. 

Probably not that fast.  One older man told me

(speaking, I think, of the early 1950's) that when

some speed limits on highways were increased

with 50 m.p.h. signs, it seemed very fast.

 

By the way, when the Penna. Turnpike first opened,

there was NO speed limit.

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Rivguy]

The earliest car that I remember my Dad having was a '59 Impala which he bought new. I was five or six years old at the time. I'm guessing that it was the two barrel 283 with single exhaust and Powerglide. My Dad hated six cylinder engines and manual transmissions. We were on a two lane highway  somewhere in So Cal in the dead of night . My Dad decided to floor it and see what she would do. My memory was of the speedo hitting an indicated 100 mph. before my Mom's excited screams to slow down ended the adventure. Of course my brother and I were leaning over the front seats so that we could see the speedo! Maybe it was only 90 mph. but it makes a better story at 100 mph. Hard to remember the exact incident, it was only sixty years ago.

I personally remember the speed limits being 50- 55 mph. on country highways. On Bay Area freeways the speed limit was 65 mph. My Dad would always cruise at least at the speed limit, but he was not a hot shoe. 

[Peter J.Heizmann]

3 hours ago, 8E45E said:

When the Pennsylvania Turnpike opened in 1940, it had a posted speed limit of 70 miles an hour.

 

Craig

Correct.  Coming home from a meet in Johnstown around the 2005 era I pulled into the rest area at the Midway Plaza.  They had a really nice display of hundreds of turnpike souvenirs, photos, and so forth.  I bought a copy of The Pennsylvania Turnpike and could not put it down.

 

Just checked and you are correct.  The 1940 initial speed limit was 70 miles per hour.  It was then lowered to 65 due to the ending period of WWII.  Also there were no center medial strip barriers and one could do a u-turn if crazy enough.  Interesting read of ups and downs.

 

Over the winter if anyone is bored Google "Abandoned PA turnpike" to see the condition of the abandoned tunnels at Sideling Hill, Rays Hill, Laurel Mountain.  The original 12 miles of abandoned turnpike in 1968 ran from Sideling Hill to the Bedford Exit.  Get off at Bedford today and take it slow.  You go about 3/4 of a mile and on the right is the abandoned roadway from the original 1940 exit.  

 

Peter J.

 

 

 

[Peter J.Heizmann]

4 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Probably not that fast.  One older man told me

(speaking, I think, of the early 1950's) that when

some speed limits on highways were increased

with 50 m.p.h. signs, it seemed very fast.

 

By the way, when the Penna. Turnpike first opened,

there was NO speed limit.

 

Not so for the PA Turnpike which is a "toll road" versus off turnpike local highways, etc.  I believe off turnpike speed limits were in the 50 m.p.h. range on highways that could handle it.  

 

When the turnpike opened the first section that ran from Carlisle, PA to Irwin, PA the speed limit was 70 m.p.h. per the history book I bought.  I recall my father reminiscing about the excitement the turnpike generated that one could go such a distance without a stop light.  Also the turnpike was known for speeding up delivery of war supplies via convoy.

 

 

[m-mman]

This is a USA road atlas from 1929. 

 

Lots of maps of course but it also includes valuable information for motorists about the states that they might operate in. 

Registration fees but also speed limits. 

In 1929 most states had a 35 to 40 MPH limit. A couple of wide open western states had the reasonable and proper language but not many. So at 40 MPH my 29 Cadillac is right on target. 

[ply33]

I have a little information about period speed limits at https://www.ply33.com/Misc/speed

 

When my car was built the maximum speed limit in my state was 45 MPH

[CChinn]

Ply 33. Very useful article. Thanks for sharing

[avgwarhawk]

I run the speed limit and in the right hand lane. No one can fault me for that.  If the highway speed limit is higher than my 54 Buick can handle I run the back roads.  I usually use the back and secondary roads as much as possible anyway.  My 60 Buick can keep up and more with today's vehicles but never the less I run back roads with the car as well.  There is no enjoyment running the highway.  I avoid them as much as possible.

[John348]

I am getting to the point where I just don't enjoy driving any of my old cars anymore. There are way more cars on the roads and drivers are far more distracted then ever. 25-35 years drivers knew in what were modern cars then that older cars were at a disadvantage and respected us, now they have no clue what we are operating or concern.

 

I always had a driver knock around car I would relax with, I do not relax taking a leisurely drive anymore, there are no leisurely drives, I return home tense and angry, between tailgaters people blowing through stop signs, WHILE TEXTING ON THIER CELLS PHONES removes all of the enjoyment out of it for me. Maybe driverless technology is truly needed to keep us safe from them? I am at a point that I think it might be that time to move then on.   

 

[Raymond_chevrolet]

I you decide you are ready to part with any of you vehicles I would be interested and honored to have an opportunity to add any to my stable

thank You

Raymond

310-721-5818

[Professor]

This post makes me glad that I live in rural Southeastern North Carolina.  In the small town I live in, people tend to be courteous.  The worst driving offense that I experience is someone pulling out in front of me and then driving slow, forcing me to slow down.  Most of my driving is on rural 70 mph roads with little to no traffic.  When I drive my 1936 Chrysler Airstream convertible, people wave, honk, and take videos.  No tailgating, no bad manners.  In almost 5,000 miles of driving my Chrysler, I have never once had to make a quick stop due to poor driving on the part of others.

 

I am sad for you John.  To quit a hobby because of the behaviors of others is terribly saddening.  I cannot imagine having to worry about my Chrysler getting damaged every time I drive it.  If you are in a place where you can move, come on out to rural North Carolina and experience a life that is closer to Mayberry RFD than it is to New York City.  🙂

 

Joe

 

 

20 hours ago, John348 said:

I am getting to the point where I just don't enjoy driving any of my old cars anymore. There are way more cars on the roads and drivers are far more distracted then ever. 25-35 years drivers knew in what were modern cars then that older cars were at a disadvantage and respected us, now they have no clue what we are operating or concern.

 

I always had a driver knock around car I would relax with, I do not relax taking a leisurely drive anymore, there are no leisurely drives, I return home tense and angry, between tailgaters people blowing through stop signs, WHILE TEXTING ON THIER CELLS PHONES removes all of the enjoyment out of it for me. Maybe driverless technology is truly needed to keep us safe from them? I am at a point that I think it might be that time to move then on.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:50 AM, John348 said:

I am getting to the point where I just don't enjoy driving any of my old cars anymore.

 

On 1/2/2022 at 8:14 AM, Moderator and Professor said:

This post makes me glad that I live in rural Southeastern North Carolina.  In the small town I live in, people tend to be courteous.

...To quit a hobby because of the behaviors of others is terribly saddening.

 

Joe above has good advice.  John, rather than being

disappointed in your environs, take your car to an AACA 

national tour!  Leave your busy life with your old car

in a trailer, perhaps with friends in their trailer, and

travel to a part of the country that is calmer.  You'll

meet friends with the same interest, travel on scenic

smaller roads, and leave with new friends and memories.

[John348]

12 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

 

Joe above has good advice.  John, rather than being

disappointed in your environs, take your car to an AACA 

national tour!  Leave your busy life with your old car

in a trailer, perhaps with friends in their trailer, and

travel to a part of the country that is calmer.  You'll

meet friends with the same interest, travel on scenic

smaller roads, and leave with new friends and memories.

 

I appreciate it but been there done that over the past 45 years I have been on many National Tours over the years.

 

Just to pack up and move sounds a lot easier said then it is to do, and my wife accepts ZERO CHANGE.........NONE!  I have a home in Florida as well but my wife will not leave this area. I don't live in NYC, I grew up there, and worked there, but NYC has expanded toward me