Cooling Service / Evaporust Question

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

And then flush some MORE. Needs more volume than a garden hose, too.  I did not go through the thread, so if this has been covered, my apologizes. After doing the block, PULL THAT RADIATOR!   Minimum, reverse flush. Same comment as to garden hose.  Personally, the radiator is the FIRST thing I do if a car has an overheating [  UNDERCOOLING? ] problem . Almost always the problem. IF the radiator has already been professionally done, it can easily be plugged up gain with stuff from the block.

 Good luck.

 

  Ben

[Victor W]

Yup, that's the plan. After on hour of flushing it was much better, but as I moved the hose from opening to opening I would get rust scale accumulating at the other two openings. Plan is to continue flushing and scraping  until no more sediment comes out. Then the radiator comes out for for a back flush. I'll assess at that point if I need it rodded out.

 

[Matt Harwood]

I used something like this to blow out the cooling passages of my Buick and Lincoln engines. Garden hose and compressed air. It really knocks stuff loose!

 

[edinmass]

Matt.......back in the day they made a flush tool similar to what you show there. It had a tapered cone with steps to fit virtually any size hose. Bought one back at Hershey in the early 80's and I have used it often.........but you can blow out radiators, oil coolers, and heater cores with them. 

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Matt.......back in the day they made a flush tool similar to what you show there. It had a tapered cone with steps to fit virtually any size hose. Bought one back at Hershey in the early 80's and I have used it often.........but you can blow out radiators, oil coolers, and heater cores with them. 

I have one of those, brand name "PURGO" (the name is half the reason I bought it almost 50 years ago), a stepped casting to fit different size radiator hoses screws onto a garden hose, plus a port with check valve so you can add a blast of shop air every few seconds.

[Terry Wiegand]

I am very hesitant to get into this discussion and take a side on who's right and wrong.  I just want to report on what I did with my engine rebuild.  With regard to using Vinegar as a derusting agent - yes, it does work and I have used it for that very purpose.  However, a person has to be very careful with it and it needs to be neutralized when finished.  Yes, it does work.  When I pulled the freeze plugs out of the block on my engine things looked every bid as bad, if not worse, than what Victor W's block looks like.  The decision was made to have the cylinder block 'thermally cleaned'.  The block was already off the crankcase and this made things easier to handle.  I took the block over to Precision Machine in Jefferson City, Missouri for the cleaning.  The block went into the oven for about 2 hours at around 750 degrees.  When it came out the casting looked like it had just left the foundry.  Grease, oil, rust, mineral deposits, and anything that was in the water jacket was turned into a fine white ash after the baking.  I simply could not see the rebuilding of this engine and not have this step done.  I have used the Evaporust before and it is a good product.  It does what it is intended to do.  The fact that I was/am fearful for the radiator on this car had a LOT to do with the decision to go this route.  They charged me $125.00 for the cleaning.  I figure that that was the best money I could have spent on this engine restoration.  I realize that this is just one person's experience and maybe not everyone needs to go this route.  I did and I am very happy with the result.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

[edinmass]

TERRY........that is the CORRECT way to clean a block, everything else is just a band aid. 👍👍

 

Make no mistake, evapo rust is a shortcut and time/money saving item. Fact is it's more of a temporary fix that many just end up living with. 

 

A few years ago we bought an old kiln/oven, to heat castings. You need to watch your temperature, but 750 degrees is higher than I personally like to go while it's certainly safe for cast iron. Saves hundreds of hours of cleaning time if you can get things all the way back to the casting. 

 

 

Your car looks great, and I'm certain it isn't overheating!

Edited July 1, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

OK my pic after 24 hours showed the Evaporust cleaned it 100% and the vinegar maybe 90% so I left the vinegar another 24 hours and it's 100% so 24 hours for Evaporust and 48 for vinegar to 100% clean. This is the 48 hour pic for vinegar:
 

 

 

 

[Terry Wiegand]

Ed,

Thank you for your compliments on the old Buick.  I had read about the Thermal Cleaning process right here on the Forums.  You would not believe what was in the floor of the water jacket on this engine after 100+ years.  When the freeze plugs were taken out the buildup was almost even with the bottom of the plug openings.  The guy at our local radiator shop told me that this radiator was one of the nicest 'old' units that he had seen in years.  If we had not gone the route we did with the block, it would have been a total disaster for the cooling system.  When I had the block over at Missouri I asked the guys if putting the block in a hot tank would have done the same thing?  I was told that that is a completely different process with different results.  In my humble opinion, if a person is going to totally rebuild an old engine like this, Thermal Cleaning should be the first thing on the list of things to do.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

[Rock10]

Is there a chance of warping the block at those temps? An overheating engine can warp a head.

[edinmass]

13 minutes ago, Rock10 said:

Is there a chance of warping the block at those temps? An overheating engine can warp a head.

 

 Probably depends on a lot of things. I have found 475 for six hours to be very effective, and at that number brass and copper are not on the edge of issues. On paper 850 on cast iron should be zero issue. I rather not chance rare or impossible parts at too high a temperature. On a Chevy 350......let it fly.

Edited July 2, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

I should explain the process so that folks will know just what is entailed.  The block is placed in the oven on a rotisserie so that it is rotated whiled being heated.  The temperature is brought up slowly and evenly and then held at the 750 degree mark for approximately 2 hours.  The block is allowed to cool at its own pace once the heat is turned off.  Cast iron is poured at somewhere around 2,000 degrees, so the 750 is not going to hurt it in any way.  They had the block at 7:30 AM that morning and I was on my way back home at around 3:00 PM that afternoon.  The casting was still moderately warm when we put it in the back of my truck.  This is a very interesting process to go through.  If I had not watched what all was involved I would have had a hard time wrapping my mind around it.  Looking into the water jacket through the freeze plug openings the inside of the water jacket cavity looked just like it did on the outside of the block.  Trust me when I tell you that the block is clean everywhere - no heating problems to be had with this engine.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

[Terry Wiegand]

There is something else that I want to add to this explanation of things.  I am running the Original Formula Zerex 50/50 Anti-Freeze so as to be safe with all of the white metals involved in the cooling system.  I also put in one full bottle of No-Rosion cooling system treatment.  This acts as an anti-foamant, rust inhibitor, and a water pump lubricant.  This solution is good down to 31 degrees below zero.  I think we're gonna be OK.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

[Morgan Wright]

Why does 750 F get rid of the rust in the water jacket? Just curious.

[Larry Schramm]

Here is what I have and use to flush out the junk in an old block.

 

 

 

 

1. HOME › 
2. COOLING SYSTEM POWER FLUSH GUN

COOLING SYSTEM POWER FLUSH GUN

Perfectly suited for quick and efficient cooling system flushing. Simply attach it to radiator or heater hoses and you're in business. Also usable in washing engines and even shop floors. Two simple connections: one to shop air and one to a typical water faucet. No. 6043 creates a unique vortex air/water blast for powerful cleaning applications. 

Note: While normal water pressure will handle the majority of a cooling system flush, short blasts are sometimes needed to loosen some contaminants from within the system.

[edinmass]

7 hours ago, Morgan Wright said:

Why does 750 F get rid of the rust in the water jacket? Just curious.

We need a chemical engineer.........I’m guessing the iron oxide oxygen atom is unstable and will release at a certain temperature. Since the bond is so weak a mild acid solution will pull it apart. Acid is actually an electrical process at the molecular level if memory serves me. I was a business major, not engineering. That’s why electrolysis with a battery charger removes rust. Somehow the heat must alter the oxygen bond. Gary Ash.......please respond.

Edited July 2, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

This was how we started to address the NON-Cooling issue with my 1925. We first back flushed the block and did get some crud out. At the same time I had the original honeycomb cleaned and the shop said it flowed fine.... Once everyting when back together I still could not get the car over a mile without overheating.

   Included an overflow tank.

 We tried the Evaporust treatment but only minimal results at the time. The only thing that cured it was a newly re-cored radiator. No problems for the next several years until I pulled the engine for a rebuild. Which at the time the core plugs were pulled and the block was hot tanked. Cooling is least of my worries with the car now.

 Another issue was with my 1937 after a shop had indicated that they puled the core plugs and cleaned the block. On the trip to Springfield MO. BCA meet, what was left in the block puked back into my cleaned radiator and packed it up solid! (Embarrassing roll-back ride home.)

   

I ran the Evaporust  thru the engine for several cycles and left it in the engine for the summer before replacing with regular coolant.

 Small sample of what was left.

It could not help the radiator though and then came another expensive re-core!

I have a Gano Filter in stalled just in-case.

And yes every season there is still some crud showing up in the filter.

Edited July 3, 2021 by dibarlaw
spelling (see edit history)

[Gary W]

When I removed the freeze plugs, I found a lot of rust buildup in the block.  I wheeled the block out onto the driveway and hit it with my power washer from every angle... reverse, into every freeze plug, into the outlets, out of the inlets....  until she ran clean.  

* I had my radiator professionally re-cored

* I run 50/50 Prestone with one bottle of NO-ROSION

* I run with a 180 thermostat.  

To date, have put 2000 miles on her, and she has never gone even a whisper over the 180 mark, and plenty of heat for those cold January mornings.

 

I am very happy that I took the time to blast it all clean.  I did not know of the thermal process, or I would have sent the block for that treatment.

 

 

Plugs out.  No explanation needed

 

 

You can see the river of rust pouring out the from the interior.

 

 

 

 

Blast away until she ran clean!

 

 

After power washing and blowing compressed air, the results speak for themselves.

 

 

Gary

 

 

 

[Morgan Wright]

I pulled this out the water pump hole with a long wrench.

 

 

[edinmass]

As you can see pictured above, the only correct way to clean a block is to tear it down. Anything less is a band aid. That said, many times that is not an option for people. My particular marque Pierce Arrow, has large water jacket covers on the 8’s and 12’s. Thus you can actually clean everything in place.......if you don’t break or strip the 40-80 bolts depending on application. That’s another story! Radiator shops always say.......radiator is “fine”. Bullshit. Unless you actually do a metered flow test.........you have no clue how it is functioning. I lost a very, very expensive engine to a bad radiator, which went to a well know radiator shop who said it was fine. After the motor failed.......always running hot, we tested it and it was functioning at 30 percent of new..............numbers don’t lie.......... employees in the radiator shops often have their head up their ass.

Edited July 3, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Brian_Heil]

The foot section cut off a pair of the wife’s old pantyhose captured by the clamp in the upper radiator hose is a cheap easy way to capture junk.  Easy and effective.  You will be amazed what’s traveling around in your system.  They sell an expensive filter that has too large a mesh. Try this. 

[Grimy]

What he said!  Spend $7 at Walgreens and buy a box of 20 thigh-high stockings that women wear with slacks, as they seem hardier than foot ends from nylons.  Run 200 miles or so, drain off a sufficient amount of coolant to remove top hose at radiator neck, then remove and rinse and reinstall the stocking.  The quantity of debris you find will let you guess-timate the next cleaning interval.  In 1000-1500 miles, you'll find you only need to clean the stocking every four years or so.   If you use any chemical flush, replace the stocking after you're done flushing.  I've been using these for 20 years on all my vehicles, including the newer ones.

[Victor W]

So, brief update on this topic. After knocking out the frost plugs I flushed a ton of rust out of my block. Initial test ride on a 90 degree had it running right at 190 according to gauge, which is incidentally the thermostat currently in it. 

 

I ran 3 gallons of Evaporust through and testing it after 24 hours showed it was spent. Drained and flushed the block again. Got a little more rust but not much. Test ride now has the gauge staying at 180-185 on a day in the upper 80's.

 

It seemed to do the job and the before and after photos show it definitely cleaned up the block interior.