Did any auto company go from hydraulic brakes to mechanical brakes instead of vice versa?

[marcapra]

Many cars went from mechanical brakes to hydraulic brakes by the 1930s.  Did any automobile company do the reverse and drop hydraulic brakes in favor of mechanical brakes?  

[dictator27]

I can think of one.  When initially introduced in 1934, the P1 series Rover 12 had hydraulic brakes.  In 1937 with the introduction of the P2 series 12, Rover reverted to servo assisted rod operated Girling mechanical brakes.  In production to 1948.

[Hupp36]

In 1925  Hupmobile went to  hydraulic brakes on the  new  8 cyl  model E, but  due to sand  holes in the  master cyl. went  back  to  what  was  referred to as   Steel draulic cable  and  rods.

[Rusty_OToole]

Some English cars had half and half, hydraulic front and mechanical rear. I think Fords were that way but can't swear to it and too lazy to look it up.

[PFindlay]

My 1964 Suzuki T-10 motorcycle has a hydraulic rear brake (drum, not disk).  Suzuki had used it for a couple of years but in 1965 they went back to a mechanical brake, typical of most bikes of the day.   I don't know why, maybe just because it's simpler.  Peter

 

[39BuickEight]

Sort of related, while we are on brake history, didn’t some manufacturers go from 4 wheel disc brakes back to rear wheel drums, due to parking brake problems with the disc brakes?

Edited January 20, 2021 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Dave Henderson]

2 hours ago, marcapra said:

Many cars went from mechanical brakes to hydraulic brakes by the 1930s.  Did any automobile company do the reverse and drop hydraulic brakes in favor of mechanical brakes?  

 

Auburn did

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Hupp36 said:

Steel draulic cable  and  rods.

"Midland Steeldraulic"

 

3 hours ago, Dave Henderson said:

Auburn did

Also to Midland Steeldraulic" I believe.  Famous for a soft pedal with great self energizing.  Easy on the foot and easy on linings.  I managed an average of 80,000 miles between relinings.

[padgett]

Many 4 wheel disk cars have a drum parking brake, sometimes inside the hat. OTOH in a modern car only 20-30% of the braking is with the rear brakes so really does not matter, most of my Jags (XK-150, XKE) had 4 wheel disks and worked very well. OTOH have had drum brakes (e.g Pontiac 8 lug) that worked very well unless you hit a deep puddle, then had to drag for a bit to dry off. 

[marcapra]

Wow!  There are some incredible answers here!  I didn't know any of that.   I was refering to a car I saw in the Tad Burness book The American Car Spotter's Guide 1920-1939.  The Peerless Motor Car Company of Cleveland,Ohio (1900-1932) went to hydraulic brakes in 1925 and strangely reverted back to mechanical brakes for their last two years in business, 1931-32.  Why, I don't know.  

 

 

[dictator27]

15 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Some English cars had half and half, hydraulic front and mechanical rear. I think Fords were that way but can't swear to it and too lazy to look it up.

Austin, Riley, English Ford and Daimler all produced cars with hydro-mechanical brakes up to 1952.  There may have been others.  

Edited January 20, 2021 by dictator27 (see edit history)

[dictator27]

The British seemed to like odd braking arrangements.  When the Austin A30 was introduced in 1951, the rear brakes were activated by a single wheel cylinder mounted on the underside of the body over the rear axle.  It operated the rear brakes by a rod and bell crank arrangement and apparently worked better than many people thought it would.

English Fords in the '50's had a single brake bleeder on the rear wheels.  One bleeder was replaced by a pipe connecting the wheel cylinders.  Bleeding them often required the use of a toothpick to bleed the bleeder less cylinder. AMHIK.

[nzcarnerd]

Studebaker's first four wheel brake set up was hydraulic but they reverted to mechanical operation the following year.

[dictator27]

14 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

Studebaker's first four wheel brake set up was hydraulic but they reverted to mechanical operation the following year.

Studebaker called it hydraulic, but it was really hydraulically assisted mechanical brakes.  A transmission driven pump applied pressure to 2 pistons which acted against the mechanical brake linkage.

[Guest]

Are not all brakes mechanical.  The friction between shoes or brake blocks, internal or external and a drum or between a pad and a rotor is definitely mechanical???  It is the actuation of the shoe, brake block or pad that is electric, hydraulic or mechanical.

Once again tradition and common usage defeat logic.

[vintagerodshop]

On 1/19/2021 at 1:52 PM, marcapra said:

Many cars went from mechanical brakes to hydraulic brakes by the 1930s.  Did any automobile company do the reverse and drop hydraulic brakes in favor of mechanical brakes?  

General Motors trucks did in 2007. the half ton trucks switched back to drums because they had problems with the inside rear pad on the passenger side wearing to quickly.

 

[58L-Y8]

In the mid-1920's when hydraulic brakes were introduced, just as many technological advancements, they weren't as perfected as perhaps they should have been.  Real world usage revealed the deficiencies quite quickly, something the dealers would have fed back to the factory as customer complaints mounted.   Reverting to a mechanical system was a stopgap solution until the problems could be resolved.  

 

There was, of course, also the motivation for manufacturers constantly seeking the lowest unit cost components.  A mechanical brake supplier had motivation to reduce their brake system prices to retain their customer base in the face of the new hydraulic brake threat to their business.

[Dandy Dave]

I worked on a 1925 Cunningham a few years back with a 1st generation Bendix hydraulic brake system. It was not all that reliable as the system was closed as I remember. There was a reservoir on the fire wall that was filled to bleed the system. After it was bled, there was a valve that was closed so that the fluid would not return to the reservoir when the peddle was pushed as it would not actuate the brake bands. It did not have a valve in the master cylinder like the later perfected systems. Yes, also outer brake bands were used on this early system. Later Cunningham's went back to mechanical brakes as I understand. Early Duesenberg's shared this same early Bendix braking system. Dandy Dave.   

Edited January 28, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)