1938 Buick Special 2 dr sdn (gray car)

[Wmsteed]

After a wait of over three weeks my incredible 38 Buick showed up on Thursday. Buying this car was a very big leap or faith in human nature. I found the car in an ad in Hemmings, it was located in the Denver area. I called the man that listed the car, had a very nice conversation with him about the car. The seller answered all of my questions with straight forward answers, then followed up with pictures of any areas of the car that I asked about.

Common sense told me to go to Denver and look at the car, however, with the Covid thing getting out of hand, I decided to jump on the car. A deal was made, I sent a cashiers check for payment and contacted Intercity Lines to have the car transported to Ventura, CA.

Rather than writing up a lengthy description of the car, I'll attach some pix of several area of the car, a picture is worth a thousand words. 

[suchan]

What a beauty!

Congratulations.

Buying a car sight unseen is always a nail biter, but it worked out well for you.

Please keep us up to date with pics from your many adventures with the car. 

 

[Mark Shaw]

Your car could be the twin to mine.  Except for the steering wheel, it looks exactly like mine in better original condition.

Congratulations... on a good buy!

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

Congratulations on your purchase. Thanks so much for posting these photos of your car! It looks to be about the same color that is to be on my 1937. (Hampton Gray) As noted in another post the trunk lining appears to be the same as what is in my 37. A burlap textured material with the bound edges.

 Many happy miles!

[Wmsteed]

I have spent the past four days since the car arrived doing an extensive survey of the car. This car is not my first rodeo, been messing with cars since I was fourteen, most Chevy's and Fords with a '39 Plym and a '40 Buick Super thrown into the mix for because they became available.
As I have stated earlier, it has been claimed that the car was owned by the first owner for forty years, the second for forty years and the last for a little over two. I can find nothing to dispute the claim (s) that the paint, upholstery, chrome, etc., is original. All of the glass has the Guide bug in the lower corners as it should be if it's original glass, a couple of pieces, both vent windows and the two rear windows are showing signs of clouding from age. Except for the door window sills which show signs of a lot of arm resting there-on, the rest of the wood-graining is in excellent condition. The tab for the rear window blind is over the rear window, however the rollup blind is gone.

Checking the under-carriage of the car I noted a couple of wheels with signs of brake fluid leaking, running down the tire. The former owner mentioned this condition to me. I also noted that the motor mounts are in the process of failing from age, the rubber has separated from the mount. I saw no signs of rust-out, some road grime, but all in all nothing of any importance that a good cleaning would take care of. I did note, the the rear shocks have been changed to a pair of Monroe's.
Having had experience with low mileage old cars, I am going to pull all of the wheels/drums to do a complete brake job and service all of the wheel bearing/seals. I am not to sure if I should try to buy new wheel cylinders, or should I attempt to rebuild the ones on the car... Any suggestions ?

Bill

[39BuickEight]

If your current wheel cylinders look ok when you disassemble them, then I would just rebuild them.  If they don’t (like if the bores are pitted or if the cups are chipped) then new ones would be wise.

[Mark Shaw]

I suggest you buy new brake cylinders since they are relatively cheap and available.  

[Wmsteed]

I have found new wheel cylinders available locally and sleeved master cylinders on an exchange basis. The vendor even has rebuilt motor mounts on the shelf on an exchange basis... The availability of parts locally will speed up the repair process.
In the back of my mind I still recall the principle of doing things right the first time, that was preached to us by the instructors,  when I went through mechanics school in the early '50's.

Through the course of reviewing the the '38 I noted that some of the wiring in the engine compartment, mainly on the voltage regulator, has some problems with the insulation near the connectors to the terminals. One of them has old friction tape wrapped around the wire. The wiring loom looks very good with no apparent problems with the cloth covering. So far I have thought that if I could get the terminal off of the wire, I could put heat shrink over the exposed wire, extending over the cloth insulation, re-install the terminal to the wire and slide the heat shrink over the terminal/wire collar.
Another thought was to cut the wire an inch or so from the terminal, slide heat shrink tube over the wire, reconnect the wire with a small butt connector, then slide the heat shrink over the wire, butt connector and terminal. 

Now that I think about the solution to the problem, I kinda like the butt connector/heat shrink, in lieu of disturbing the original terminal connection to the wire... Appears to be crimped and soldiered.

Bill

[Mark Shaw]

You might consider this option...

 https://www.bing.com/shop?q=liquid+wire++insulation+&FORM=SHOPPA&originIGUID=705CC9B129C4467D888313AB5B31F79C

[neil morse]

23 hours ago, Wmsteed said:

Another thought was to cut the wire an inch or so from the terminal, slide heat shrink tube over the wire, reconnect the wire with a small butt connector, then slide the heat shrink over the wire, butt connector and terminal. 

Now that I think about the solution to the problem, I kinda like the butt connector/heat shrink, in lieu of disturbing the original terminal connection to the wire... Appears to be crimped and soldiered.

 

If I were you, I would forget about adding the butt connector.  I think it just introduces another possible failure point.  I would either cut the wire as you propose and directly solder it back together after sliding some heat shrink into the wire farther upstream that you can then slide into place.  Or just cut the terminal off and solder on a new one, again using heat shrink.  You can buy all the old school style terminals and wire you need from a place like Rhode Island Wire Services.

 

https://www.riwire.com/

 

 

[Wmsteed]

Thank you Mark & Niel for the suggestions and product info.
I am a little reluctant to cut the terminals off of the wire, might cause a problem loosing a half inch of wire. At this point I think I will try to salvage the original terminals, put heat shrink on the wire and re-attach the terminal. I'll make sure I have a hand full of replacement offset terminals just in case the original ones are not re-useble. I like the heat shrink better than liquid because it would impart an original look to the wire. The one previous repair using friction tape is pretty lame looking.
I had the previous owner send me pictures of the cloth covered wiring and looms. All of the pictures showed the wiring covering's/looms to be in very good shape, of course a picture was not taken of the wiring to the voltage regulator.. An oversight, Hmmmm
I recently looked at a '40 Buick Super that is for sale locally, nice new two tone green paint, chrome in pretty good condition. Asking price $20.K... The interior was pretty bad, car could not be started because the wiring through out the car was a mess, needing a complete new harness. Of course the seller claimed that a little tape here and there would solve the problem..
Definately a case of putting a little lip stick on the old girl and putting her out on the curb.

[neil morse]

You're welcome, Bill.  My Royal Maroon '41 Super 4-door came from Ventura -- I wonder if you ever saw it around?  It was owned by a fireman from about 2000 to 2015; I don't know what part of town he lived in.

 

I agree about the '40 you describe.  It seems odd to go to the expense of a paint job -- a very high ticket item if it's done right -- and leave everything else in such bad shape.

[rodneybeauchamp]

Hi Bill, congratulations on your new ‘38. Looks a nice original vehicle, love the glove box sticker, never new they had them. Was lucky with my ‘38 that a new wiring harness was in the boot when I got it. As much as it was a bit of enjoyable work, I’m very happy it is now installed. That 80 year old wiring was falling apart everywhere under the bonnet. And six volts can be a real hazard when it shorts out. Ask me how I know 🤔🤔🤔

[Wmsteed]

On 11/18/2020 at 12:57 PM, neil morse said:

You're welcome, Bill.  My Royal Maroon '41 Super 4-door came from Ventura -- I wonder if you ever saw it around?  It was owned by a fireman from about 2000 to 2015; I don't know what part of town he lived in.

 

I agree about the '40 you describe.  It seems odd to go to the expense of a paint job -- a very high ticket item if it's done right -- and leave everything else in such bad shape.

Niel, Can't say I ever saw your '41 Super around town. Several years ago there was a maroon '41 Sedanet that an owner of a body shop had. I came close to buying a Maroon 41 Century Sedanet in Idaho several years ago. Two things stopped me, it did not have the compound carbs and the twin spotlights were dummies.. At the time I had a complete compound carb setup for the Special, Super 248 engine. I wish I had kept the carp setup, it would have looked pretty neat on my '38.. I came close to buying a '38 Century coupe in Idaho over ten years ago that had the compound carbs on the 320 engine.

Bill

[Wmsteed]

The survey of my '38 is complete. The car needs a complete brake job and it needs new engine/trans mounts.. I have found a source for all of the parts, however, there is a core charge/or exchange required for most of the brake parts. I have been a little reluctant to take the car apart, then wait for the new parts to arrive so that the re-assembly can move forward. My problem was solved on Thursday:

I am in the process of relocating my Hobby Shop into a larger location, in the process I came upon a large crate of '40 Buick parts that I forgot I had. The parts came from a '40 Buick coupe that I acquired several years ago. We sold the car to a man in New Zealand, He only wanted the body, no mechanicle's.
We sectioned the body into four pieces, palletized the body and sent it to New Zealand. I cut up the chassis, putting all of the pieces into a large packing crate. Low and behold I have all of the brake cores on hand, drums, shoes, etc.
I know that there can be some difference between the '38/40 brake parts. if the coupe was a Century in lieu of being a Special, maybe I'll be lucky. 

Bill

[MCHinson]

Before you send the 1940 parts in, you may want to be sure they are the same. I don't think they are. Not sure where you are getting your brake parts from but you may want to try Cars, Inc. https://www.oldbuickparts.com/index.php?cPath=35_64_180. I don't recall a core charge on any of my 1938 Century brake parts, but maybe I missed it. In any case, you don't need to send them your parts up front. You can order them and then if there are core charges, you can send in the old parts after you complete the job for a core charge refund. 

[Wmsteed]

Happy Holidays to all.. Hope the coming year is better than '20 has been.

Not much going on with my '38.. I am going to buy the majority of the brake, etc parts that I need from Bob's Automobilia in Templeton, CA, he has everything I need, including the motor mounts on an exchange basis.. I normally drive through Templeton on a monthly basis so I can save some on shipping costs.

Doing some TLC on the '38 I noted that the spare tire in the trunk is an original 16" wheel, gray in color with correct pin stripping. The tire on the wheel is a very old US Rubber 650x16. The tires/wheels on the car are 700 x 15 on 15" wheels, as the pix show the hub caps are '39 and later.

The man I bought the car from told me that the second owner of the car had told him the wheels were changed to 15" Century wheels many years ago because 16" wide whites were to expensive and hard to get. The wheels are black, no pin stripping.

I have a set of Roadmaster 15" wheels which are as I recall 6.5". I am going to have the RM wheels powder coated red, which would be correct for a 38.. Wm.

[MCHinson]

William,

 

Before you have those wheels powder coated you may want to make sure the wider wheels will work on the front. On my 1938 Century, I initially had a later wheel that was wider than the original wheel. With it on the front, the wheel scrubbed on some of the front suspension. The wider wheel would work on the back, but not on the front. I found some correct 1938 15 inch wheels that solved my problem. I also suspect you will find that those 15 inch wheels could be sold for enough money to make you a bit of profit over the cost of replacing them with the correct 1938 Special wheels. 

[1939_Buick]

16inch wheels will give a slightly higher speed for the same engine RPM compared to 15inch.

But the height of tires can also make a difference.

As above better to find some 16's

[Wmsteed]

Thank you for the info Matt/39_buick.. I have 15 x 6.5  '51-52 Road Master wheels with P235/75R 15 tires on my my '40 Buick Super with no problems. According to the info in Coker' catalog the 650x16 tires are on the average of being 29.10, whereas the P235/75R15 is 28.9. I think the very small difference in tire size will not effect the overall axle ratio that much. The safety and roadability of the radial type tire will more than make up the difference. It is my intention to run black wall P235's for everyday tires.

As i stated in my earlier posting to this topic, the current tires are 700x 15 which is a 29.29 tire, when comparing tire size the three tires do not have enough difference to warrant a switch in an attempt to improve gear ratio.

The info I have states that the standard gear ratio for a '38 Special is 3.90, since the car is originally from Kansas City, which is basically flat land in lieu mountainous, I would think the 3.90 would be correct.

Of course I will verify the ratio as times goes bye. I will also have to really check the wheels on the car for size, they could be correct '38 15" wheels.. My only concern is the use of tubeless tires, the 51-52 are made for tubeless tires, have a raised lip on the bead area to help retain the tubeless tire on the wheel. Wm.

[MCHinson]

I agree that the tire height is unlikely to make a substantial difference, but it is not the tire height that I would worry about. On my 1938 Century, the wider wheel resulted in the tire sidewall scrubbing some of the front suspension. I don't think the 3.90 gear was standard on 1938 Specials, but it was an available option. In my experience, 1937 and 1938 wheels are fine to run tubeless. 

[suchan]

Agree with Matthew. 4.40 gears were standard on '38 Specials. The '38's with the rare semiautomatic transmission had 3.615 gears.

235R15 is roughly the same height as 7.00-15 (and 6.50-16), but the cross section is inches wider, so you have to watch for clearance. A '38 Special might not be the same as a '40 Super. Tubeless tires are fine on a '38. I put tubeless radials on my two 38-41's, and have them on my '37 LaSalle. You'll hear all sorts of bizarre arguments against using tubeless and radial tires on older cars, but as long as the tires are in good condition, you're good to go.

[1939_Buick]

19 hours ago, suchan said:

Agree with Matthew. 4.40 gears were standard on '38 Specials. The '38's with the rare semiautomatic transmission had 3.615 gears..

Agree.  For 1938 series 40 standard is 4.44 (40/9) with 3.90 (39/10) as an option and 3.615 (47/13) on the semi auto

The same 3.9 (39/10) gear set was used in the series 60 Century, and are a popular swap to the series 40, if people can find them.

The 3.615 (47/13) are even harder to find.

Buick changed some part numbers/design from year to year at this time

.

[Wmsteed]

I don't claim to be an expert on pre-war Buicks, all tho I have had a lot of experience with them.

The technical info for '38 Buicks lists the gear ratio overall at 4.40.1-- Series 40, 3.90.1-- Ser 60,  4.18.1, Ser. 80, 4.56.1.. The Tec data for '37 does not list the 3.90 ratio in the series 40. it does list it for the Ser 60. Buick.

Someplace I have an article that was written about an anomoly with the GM standard models for 1938.

The article stated that Chevrolet and Buick felt that most of the Chevrolet Master Series and Buick Specials would be purchased by salesmen, and therefore better mileage and higher speed would be very important. The high speed axle ratio, 3.73.1 vs 4.22.1 was common in  '37-40 Master Series, not the Delux Series Chevy's.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Wmsteed (see edit history)

[Wmsteed]

It would appear that while we are doing a brake job on my '38, we will have to check the axle ratio to establish exactly what the ratio is.. Wm.

[1939_Buick]

8 hours ago, Wmsteed said:

It would appear that while we are doing a brake job on my '38, we will have to check the axle ratio to establish exactly what the ratio is.. Wm.

If you are under the car on the ground, taking off the diff cover is not that hard and then count the teeth. If lucky you see the engraved part numbers. Last time I did that I took photos(with flash) and then later looked at the images.

 

My data is from the Buick parts books.  Newer books (1952) can list different part numbers (& teeth) for the older cars compared to say 1942 parts book.  There are typo errors in the Buick parts book. Have put all this into a excel spreadsheet file

Edited December 27, 2020 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Bloo]

While it is true that a higher speed rear axle was found in the cheaper Chevys in the late 30s, that is a different axle design and a different division. I think any late 30s Buick Special you are likely to run across will have 4.44, no matter what a salesman might have thought about it or wanted. 3.90 fits, but it was a Century thing from the factory. Putting higher gears in cars sold on the plains was a Pontiac thing, not Buick. Let us know what you find. The car is beautiful.

[neil morse]

The '41 Shop Manual indicates that the 3.9 rear end was optional on the Special and Super (the 4.4 was standard).  According to the manual, the gear ratio "can be easily identified either by figures stamped on the underside of the axle housing or daubs of paint on the outer end axle shaft."  A daub of red paint identified the 3.9 option on the Special and Super.

 

My car has red paint where the axle connects to the torque tube.  I'm not sure if that's what they mean by the "outer end of the axle shaft," but from its performance on the freeway, I'm pretty confident my car has the 3.9 rear end.  It tools along at 60 to 65 very comfortably.  I don't know whether they offered the 3.9 as an option for the Special in '38 or whether it was indicated by a "daub" of paint, but I'm just passing this along in case it might be helpful.

[Wmsteed]

Neil, Thank you for the info on the paint ID on the axle... Only time will tell if my '38 has 3.9 gearing in lieu of the 4.4. The man I bought the car from told me the car was a very good highway cruiser, 60/65 mph was maintained very easily..

One has to be very careful to not set themselves up as being judge and jury when it comes to making statements about old vehicles. I like a phrase that a man made on one of the old car forum's I frequent..

Avoid using the terminology 'Always and Never' either one of which can bite you in the back side.

In 1951 I had a '38 Chevy Master, which was the standard model for the year, it had a solid I beam front axle in lieu of knee action and the only bright metal on the car was the grille.

The car was very fast compared to my friends cars, when the engine blew up I replaced it with a GMC 270 which was the biggest engine GMC had at the time. I added a bigger carb, Mallory ignition and improved the exhaust... There was nothing in eastern Idaho that could catch that car, that is until a kid put an Olds Rocket engine in his '36 Ford.
About ten years ago I discovered that the high speed rear ends were standard equipment in the '38-40 Master series Chevy's. Wm.

[suchan]

I had a '38 Special I bought from a mechanic and longtime BCA member. He drove it from eastern Calif to the St Louis BCA National in the 1990's, 60-65 mph all the way. I drove it over the Sierras and home to San Jose when I bought it, 260 miles in 5 hours, so there are '38 Specials that can do it. The car seemed to strain at 50, then smooth out and cruise easily at 60. All depends on how they've been treated.

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

5 hours ago, Wmsteed said:

One has to be very careful to not set themselves up as being judge and jury when it comes to making statements about old vehicles.

Agreed!

[jenz38]

On 12/29/2020 at 7:37 PM, Wmsteed said:

I replaced it with a GMC 270 which was the biggest engine GMC had at the time. I added a bigger carb, Mallory ignition and improved the exhaust... There was nothing in eastern Idaho that could catch that car, that is until a kid put an Olds Rocket engine in his '36 Ford.

About ten years ago I discovered that the high speed rear ends were standard equipment in the '38-40 Master series Chevy's. Wm.

MAN !!! exactly this constellation was my dream car before I bought my '38 Buick Special Coupe 16 years ago and make it fast with a hopped up 263 engine.

(Had read California Bill's speed manual and fall in love with this..,but its impossible here in Germany to get a 270 GMC Engine ).

 

WM,a tip from me before you installing the Wheel cylinder, disassemble each one and put it together again with a special Grease for brake cylinder. A common problems are stuck/rusted pistons after one or two years,because they are completely dry out of the box.

That's my experiences with all this Cylinder.( I'm a professional mechanic)

With my master cylinder I had switched over to a one from a cj5 Jeep with an adapter plate . It's the same diameter,its cheap and with less problems available.. 😉

 

Happy new Year to you all. 

 

 

[Wmsteed]

Jen,

Thank you for the info on the wheel cylinder grease, have never heard of that before, I'll have to check around with the parts stores to see if such a thing is available here in the states.

Wm.

[Wmsteed]

Shortly after I renewed my BCA membership following the purchase of the '38 Buick, I joined the '36-38 Buick Club.  I recently received my first copy of the Torque Tube II magazine and a copy of the 2021 calendar. The calendar was a nice surprise, the free calendar showed showed class, just as the Buick's always have.

Wm.

[Bloo]

Wheel cylinder grease sounds like probably Sil-Glyde in the US.