No spark, need help

[metalmoto]

Hello Again,

 

65 Falcon Futura 170 ci engine. Completely original, including the breaker points ignition. 

Was running 35 years ago before being garaged since. Yes, I know I have a lot of work ahead of me:-)

 

First, I'm trying to figure out how my father wired up a kill switch under the dashboard.

He's 85 years old now, and doesn't remember which way the switch is supposed to be, to start the car.

I've tried both positions, and still no spark. So it's probably a bad coil or something else.

 

I'd like to remove the kill switch anyway, and below is a description of how he has it wired, which confuses me.

 

First, there is a red wire connected to the battery terminal of the coil, which goes into into the wiring harness.

Also there's a condenser connected to that same terminal, and it's grounded to the engine.

 

Now, on the other coil terminal, there's a black wire going to the distributor.

Here's where it get interesting. He has another wire connected to it. It goes through the firewall, connects to one side of the kill switch.

The other end of the kill switch is connected to a screw attached to the metal dashboard. Grounded I would assume.

 

What is the purpose of doing it this way?

 

I don't just want to disconnect this wire, thinking he might of removed a wire someplace else.

And is using the dashboard as a ground instead?

 

I studied electricity and electronics years ago, I can rewire a house, and used to repair consumer electronics, before they became cheaper to buy new, then fix the old ones. So, I'm well educated in that respect. And have a general idea how a points ignition system works.

 

I just can't wrap my mind around what might of done, to wire in the kill switch. Maybe I'm getting old too old or something?

 

I imagine one of the condensers "capacitors" are shorted, or the coil is bad. Causing the no spark condition.

I plan to test them with a meter. But I want to eliminate the kill switch anyway. 

I'm sure after all these years the condensers are shot. But like capacitors, they usually don't short, there more than likely open.

 

One of my hobbies is restoring antique radios, so I know they go bad with age. And usually need to be replaced.

 

I just don't want to start disconnecting things, when I don't know the original reason, why it was wired this way.

 

Sorry for the long explanation, I just don't want to make things worse, when there is a reason it's wired like this.

 

Thanks in advance, and any help would be gladly be appreciated!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Frank DuVal]

Long story short, see if it makes sense. On your Falcon:

 

Battery negative is grounded to frame/engine block. Battery hot goes through ignition switch then through a resistor (usually part of the wiring harness, but can be a ceramic resistor) to the + terminal of the coil. The negative terminal of the coil  goes to the points. The points open and close, thereby completing the ignition primary circuit . Note, when the points open, the magnetic field of the coil collapses, thereby making the high voltage to fire the plugs.

 

So to make a spark, there has to be 8 to 12 volts (another circuit to explain here, ignore for now) at the + terminal of the coil, and the negative terminal needs to be connected to ground, then OPENED!

 

Sounds like you father's simple kill switch just keeps the negative terminal of the coil grounded. Therefore the points can open as normal , but no change at the negative terminal, so no spark, no run, no steal car.

 

First, just disconnect the wire to the kill switch. Second, clean the points. There used to be point files for this purpose, but 400 to 600 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper will work. You can check the points with an ohmmeter. Closed, they are 0 ohms, open they are infinity ohms. Also, the condenser inside the distributor that is in parallel with the points can be shorted, open or leaky.  Again, can be tested with an ohmmeter.

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, metalmoto said:

First, there is a red wire connected to the battery terminal of the coil, which goes into into the wiring harness.

Also there's a condenser connected to that same terminal, and it's grounded to the engine.

 

That is normal. The condenser connected to the positive side of the coil is to kill radio noise caused by the ignition.

 

2 hours ago, metalmoto said:

Now, on the other coil terminal, there's a black wire going to the distributor.

 

That is normal. It goes to the points and condenser in the distributor. When everything works as it should, and the ignition is on, that terminal should be live with the points open, and dead with the points closed.

 

2 hours ago, metalmoto said:

Here's where it get interesting. He has another wire connected to it. It goes through the firewall, connects to one side of the kill switch.

The other end of the kill switch is connected to a screw attached to the metal dashboard. Grounded I would assume.

 

That is a normal kill switch like you might have on a snowmobile or a lawnmower or something. When it is on, the engine will not have any spark.

 

2 hours ago, metalmoto said:

What is the purpose of doing it this way?

 

These are used to stop the engine on when the ignition is a magneto or something not battery powered that you cannot just turn off. It doesn't make a bit of sense on a Falcon unless he was using it as an anti-theft device. That is a good possibility for the reason he had it.

 

2 hours ago, metalmoto said:

I don't just want to disconnect this wire, thinking he might of removed a wire someplace else.

And is using the dashboard as a ground instead?

 

I would get rid of it entirely, If you don't want to get rid of it, disconnect it at the coil end for now as part of the troubleshooting process. You can hook it up later if you want for old times sake after you have the car working right. The way you have described it, it was never necessary to make the car run, only make it not run if the switch was flipped.

 

Now about the condensers..... I would ignore the radio condenser for now. The one in the distributor you should replace anyway. Here is how you can get started troubleshooting without buying any condensers. I am assuming you have already disconnected the kill switch from the coil, and have the charged battery in and hooked up.

 

1) Put a piece of paper between the ignition points to block them from touching each other. Turn key to "run" position. With a meter, or a test light, check for voltage on the "hot" side of the coil. Check the negative side too. Both should be hot. If not, post back what you find. Otherwise proceed.

 

2) Take the paper back out of the points. Scrape the points with something where they touch. Preferably not sandpaper as it gets embedded and causes short life.

 

Alternatively, you could put in new points and condenser. If you do you must gap them. Put a tiny bit of grease up against the rubbing block (that touched the cam) of the new points. Pick a side depending on which way the distributor turns, Put the grease on the side where it will get pulled under the rubbing block as the distributor turns. Turn the engine by hand with a wrench, or the starter (stater is tougher) until the rubbing block is EXACTLY on top of one of the cam lobes (highest peaks). Set the gap with a feeler gauge according to the manual. You could also use a matchbook for now just to get it close enough to run.

 

Whether the points are old or new, drag a piece of paper soaked in brake kleen through them where the contacts touch when you are done, to get rid of any grease or oil contamination.

 

3) Now put the distributor cap on, or get it out of the way. I might leave it off to make sure the distributor turns, unless you already know from changing the points. Pull the coil wire out at the distributor cap end and put it close to the block or something grounded. Get it about 1/8" or 1/4" inch away. Tape it if necessary. Don't hang on to it by hand. Crank the engine and see if you have spark. No spark? Weak spark? Post what you find. More to come when you get to this point if you don't already have it running. Good luck.

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Isaiah]

The points may look good but still not work clean them good,

POINTS ARE OBSOLETE NOW EVEN NEW ONES AT THE PARTS STORE. SO CLEAN THEM ALSO !!

[metalmoto]

Thank You very much.

It's starting to make sense to me know, as far as my father's kill switch. 

As kid,  I had a minibike with a lawnmower engine. With the metal thing that shorted out the spark plug, to kill the engine.

Got a hell of a shock, if I wasn't careful, the spark plug didn't have a rubber boot on it. Ouch!

 

Yes, I will disconnect the wire to the kill switch. It's not hidden very well anyway. 

 

I ran a piece of emery cloth through the points already, didn't help anyway.

The trunk of the car was full of spare parts, including new ignition parts purchased in the early 1980's.

Including new points and condensers. Do you think the condensers are still good, if new in package?

I guess I try testing them with an ohmmeter? Wow the prices were so cheap back then!

 

It's almost 2:30 AM here right now. I work 2nd shift, so normally up late anyway.

I need to go to bed now. But I will get back late tomorrow night with the voltage readings I find on the coil.

 

Also,  I'm far from having it running yet. Carburetor throttle shaft is seized. Plan to disassemble it and soak the bottom half in PB blaster, to see if I get it to free up, Already got a rebuild kit. 

Also, bought a new gas tank. Drained the old gas and the smell was awful. It took weeks for the smell to go away in my garage.

I plan to run it off a small gallon tank, until I can either clean or replace the fuel lines.

The car was parked in a garage 35 years ago. So, I'm taking my time, making sure all is good, before starting it.

Nice thing is that all the electrical still works, even the original AM radio.

My first posting has the whole story about the car, which you might find very interesting.

I will get back ASAP.

And thanks so much for your help with this car, which means so much to me. 

[padgett]

Triage is good.What I'd do:  Remove the switch. Remove the capacitor. Connect the hot side of the coil to the battery side of the coil. Crank. Do you get a spark ? If yes move back in the ignition circuit (do you have a service manual ? - Start switch wiring can be complicated.m. If no is coil, points, or wiring. BTW are you SURE it is getting gas (and not water) ?

[Isaiah]

 use a test light or ohms meter and see in you have a circuit on both sides of the points.

 Setting as long as that has set it may take some good cleaning  .

  I use a little wet stone that never has had oil on it to clean the contacts.

 TAKE THE POINTS OUT AND CLEAN IT ALL UP

[metalmoto]

Frank, OK I seem to be getting somewhere now.

I am getting 7 volts on the positive side of the coil.

Negative side of the coil is grounded.

With the distributor cap off, cranking the engine with a remote start switch.

I noticed a big spark when the points opened and closed.

So I take that, as the condenser in there is shot?

Seems totally open, no reading on my ohmmeter either way it's connected.

I have a few NOS condensers I can test, hopefully I have a good one here.

I know I'll need to purchase new wires, as one is a little melted at the spark plug end. 

 

On 7/26/2020 at 11:27 PM, Frank DuVal said:

Long story short, see if it makes sense. On your Falcon:

 

Battery negative is grounded to frame/engine block. Battery hot goes through ignition switch then through a resistor (usually part of the wiring harness, but can be a ceramic resistor) to the + terminal of the coil. The negative terminal of the coil  goes to the points. The points open and close, thereby completing the ignition primary circuit . Note, when the points open, the magnetic field of the coil collapses, thereby making the high voltage to fire the plugs.

 

So to make a spark, there has to be 8 to 12 volts (another circuit to explain here, ignore for now) at the + terminal of the coil, and the negative terminal needs to be connected to ground, then OPENED!

 

Sounds like you father's simple kill switch just keeps the negative terminal of the coil grounded. Therefore the points can open as normal , but no change at the negative terminal, so no spark, no run, no steal car.

 

First, just disconnect the wire to the kill switch. Second, clean the points. There used to be point files for this purpose, but 400 to 600 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper will work. You can check the points with an ohmmeter. Closed, they are 0 ohms, open they are infinity ohms. Also, the condenser inside the distributor that is in parallel with the points can be shorted, open or leaky.  Again, can be tested with an ohmmeter.

 

[Bloo]

You cant really test a condenser with an ohmmeter. It is supposed to be open. If it isn't open, its bad. With a good one, you might get a "kick" the first time you try it with an ohmmeter. Don't put too much stock in it.

 

Ok so you have voltage on the positive side of the coil. Points open, you should have voltage on the negative side. points closed, you shouldn't. Since you are seeing a big spark (at the points ?) when you crank, you already have all that.

 

If there is spark at the points, it is almost alive. Pull the coil wire out at the distributor end and put the end 1/8" or 1/4" from ground somewhere and crank. If you have a good spark, it is ready to run. If there is no spark, or super weak spark, replace the condenser and try again.

[metalmoto]

On 7/27/2020 at 12:16 AM, Bloo said:

 

That is normal. The condenser connected to the positive side of the coil is to kill radio noise caused by the ignition.

 

 

That is normal. It goes to the points and condenser in the distributor. When everything works as it should, and the ignition is on, that terminal should be live with the points open, and dead with the points closed.

 

 

That is a normal kill switch like you might have on a snowmobile or a lawnmower or something. When it is on, the engine will not have any spark.

 

 

These are used to stop the engine on when the ignition is a magneto or something not battery powered that you cannot just turn off. It doesn't make a bit of sense on a Falcon unless he was using it as an anti-theft device. That is a good possibility for the reason he had it.

 

 

I would get rid of it entirely, If you don't want to get rid of it, disconnect it at the coil end for now as part of the troubleshooting process. You can hook it up later if you want for old times sake after you have the car working right. The way you have described it, it was never necessary to make the car run, only make it not run if the switch was flipped.

 

Now about the condensers..... I would ignore the radio condenser for now. The one in the distributor you should replace anyway. Here is how you can get started troubleshooting without buying any condensers. I am assuming you have already disconnected the kill switch from the coil, and have the charged battery in and hooked up.

 

1) Put a piece of paper between the ignition points to block them from touching each other. Turn key to "run" position. With a meter, or a test light, check for voltage on the "hot" side of the coil. Check the negative side too. Both should be hot. If not, post back what you find. Otherwise proceed.

 

2) Take the paper back out of the points. Scrape the points with something where they touch. Preferably not sandpaper as it gets embedded and causes short life.

 

Alternatively, you could put in new points and condenser. If you do you must gap them. Put a tiny bit of grease up against the rubbing block (that touched the cam) of the new points. Pick a side depending on which way the distributor turns, Put the grease on the side where it will get pulled under the rubbing block as the distributor turns. Turn the engine by hand with a wrench, or the starter (stater is tougher) until the rubbing block is EXACTLY on top of one of the cam lobes (highest peaks). Set the gap with a feeler gauge according to the manual. You could also use a matchbook for now just to get it close enough to run.

 

Whether the points are old or new, drag a piece of paper soaked in brake kleen through them where the contacts touch when you are done, to get rid of any grease or oil contamination.

 

3) Now put the distributor cap on, or get it out of the way. I might leave it off to make sure the distributor turns, unless you already know from changing the points. Pull the coil wire out at the distributor cap end and put it close to the block or something grounded. Get it about 1/8" or 1/4" inch away. Tape it if necessary. Don't hang on to it by hand. Crank the engine and see if you have spark. No spark? Weak spark? Post what you find. More to come when you get to this point if you don't already have it running. Good luck.

 

 

 

Hi, I disconnected the "kill switch" wire to start with. I want to get rid of it completely anyway.

With the ignition on i get 7 volts at the positive terminal of the coil.

With the ignition off, the negative terminal is grounded. 

I did what you said, and put a piece of paper between the points, and I got 12 volts on both the positive and negative terminals of the coil. All is good.

As I mentioned to Frank, as I cranked the engine with a remote starter switch. I noticed heavy sparking between the points.

So I believe the condenser is shot. I read this someplace before, the condenser is to quench that spark, to save the points from pitting, and wearing out the contacts quickly.

 

Need to replace that condenser, I will look though my box of NOS ignition parts, and hopefully I have a good one.

I know how to static text them with an ohmmeter. I also have a capacitor tester, but I don't know what the value should be.

 

I imagine, since the points are sparking, there is not not going to be a good spark at the plugs?

So, I'll fix that first.

 

Others, are talking about starting the car. I am not nearly ready for that yet.

The carburetor throttle shaft is seized, and it's been removed from the car.

I plan on rebuilding it, but until I can get the shaft to move easily, it a moot point.

 

I plan to disassemble the carb, and try soaking the bottom half in PB blaster or Kroil, and hopefully get it unstuck, before rebuilding it. This should be fun! So many little parts and check balls etc. It going to be like a puzzle, putting it back together.

 

The car is very sentimental to me, as my late mother loved driving it. I was a 14 years old when my dad bought the car.

He got it for $500 in 1979, from the original owner. It wasn't running right because someone had the plug wires mixed up.

My father drove me and my family to the Pocono mountains every weekend for 5 years in it. A 110 mile drive each way!

And it never let us down. My mother drove it to go shopping, while my father was at work. So many great memories...

 

I was really surprised the car was not totally rusted out, after sitting garaged for 35 years. Seems he undercoated it at one time.

The car was parked in a garage, when my parents divorced. My father said it reminded him too much of mom, so it sat for 35 years.

 

I got married, got a house of my own, with a garage, and finally had the chance to get the car.

It was not easy, getting the car titled in my name, in Pennsylvania, especially since my mother was long since gone.

And she had signed the title without getting it notarized. I was told I would need a court order, it's a very long story...

It took me a year, to get the car titled in my name. PA laws are very strict on this.

It used to be a signed title was all you needed. But the laws changed, and it was quite a battle, to finally get to own the car legally.

 

I was 19 years old, the last time I was in the car, when it was running,

I am 55 years old now, and now it's mine!

I plan to get it running, and restore it as best as I can, register it and an antique, and drive my family to get ice cream on Sunday afternoons etc. 

 

I had hoped to get it running sooner, and take my 85 year old father for a ride it it once again.

But it doesn't seem possible, at this point. It still needs a lot of work, before it will be road worthy, unfortunately.

My father knows I will get it running and driving someday, and he's just happy that I will take good care of it.

I digress... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[metalmoto]

20 minutes ago, Bloo said:

You cant really test a condenser with an ohmmeter. It is supposed to be open. If it isn't open, its bad. With a good one, you might get a "kick" the first time you try it with an ohmmeter. Don't put too much stock in it.

 

Ok so you have voltage on the positive side of the coil. Points open, you should have voltage on the negative side. points closed, you shouldn't. Since you are seeing a big spark (at the points ?) when you crank, you already have all that.

 

If there is spark at the points, it is almost alive. Pull the coil wire out at the distributor end and put the end 1/8" or 1/4" from ground somewhere and crank. If you have a good spark, it is ready to run. If there is no spark, or super weak spark, replace the condenser and try again.

 

OK, I will try that. I will let you know the results tomorrow.

Very late here now. Must close and get back.

TY

[Bloo]

Yes you could test one if you had a capacitance bridge, but I don't know what the value is either. They vary by make and model. The way to tell if the value is wrong is that metal transfers from one point to another, making a "mountain" on the points. You go through a lot of points, but still have spark. In old MoTor manuals there are pictures. Which point the mountain is on tells you whether you have too much or too little capacitance. The change in uF needed to correct it is usually very small.

 

You are correct that a bunch of spark at the points implies a bad condenser. When the points open, you get a little spark because you are breaking the circuit. But then, the magnetic field collapses in the coil, really fast, and the voltage goes sky high! But... nothing is grounded because the points are now open. The condenser can handle a pulse of current if it is there and good. If it is not there, the spark must jump at the spark plug AND the points. The spark at the plug will be weak. That really is how you tell.

 

Good luck

 

[padgett]

"am getting 7 volts on the positive side of the coil.

Negative side of the coil is grounded."

 

Rong and ronger. With a 12v system & key on should have at least 9v through the resistor/resistor wire at the + side of coil.

Only time the negative side of the coil should be grounded is when the points are closed.

With an analog meter I can usually see the needle jump a bit connected on a ohms scale to a cap. With a DVM fagedaboudit unless it has a CAP scale.

[Isaiah]

 take a crock pot and some lemon juice (real lemon juice ) and put the carb parts in it and bring it to just starts to boil. YOU NEED TO CLEAN IT ALL THEN GET A NEW REPAIR KIT AND  PUT IT BACK TOGETHER.

The old gaskets and diaphragm''s wont last  in today’s GAS !

Edited July 28, 2020 by Isaiah (see edit history)

[carbking]

8 hours ago, metalmoto said:

Others, are talking about starting the car. I am not nearly ready for that yet.

The carburetor throttle shaft is seized, and it's been removed from the car.

I plan on rebuilding it, but until I can get the shaft to move easily, it a moot point.

 

I plan to disassemble the carb, and try soaking the bottom half in PB blaster or Kroil, and hopefully get it unstuck, before rebuilding it. This should be fun! So many little parts and check balls etc. It going to be like a puzzle, putting it back together.

 

Before you subject the carburetor to the smelly stuff, remove it, turn it upside down to drain any gasoline, place it in a zip-lock back, and place it in your freezer overnight. Sometimes, the expansion/contraction rates of different metals will allow a tiny amount of movement. If you can get any movement, then try the stinky stuff.

 

I don't know current values, but the 144/170 CID carbs used to resemble gold, thanks to the dudes restoring Rancheros and Econolines; plus many of the carbs were trashed long ago, so the supply is short. PATIENCE IS YOUR FRIEND in disassembly of that carburetor.

 

Jon.

[Isaiah]

 If the fuel pump is rebuild. sable  do that to or get a  NEW One

Same as the Carb  it needs to days gaskets and diaphragms .

You dont want it to let you doing on a hot day 50 miles from home !!! been there!

[Graham Man]

1965 Mustang and Falcon are basically the same car, Mustang is built on the Falcon platform, so all the mechanical parts are the same.   Any parts store should be able to help you out with carb rebuild kits, points, and coil.

 

I have a 1965 200cid Falcon 2 door hardtop, 3 on the tree.

[Frank DuVal]

Quote

"am getting 7 volts on the positive side of the coil.

Negative side of the coil is grounded."

 

Rong and ronger. With a 12v system & key on should have at least 9v through the resistor/resistor wire at the + side of coil.

Only time the negative side of the coil should be grounded is when the points are closed.

 

He is fine. He read the negative side when the points were closed, as he gets sparking at the points when the engine cranks, or the points are opened manually.  Yes if it stayed grounded with the points open, that IS the problem. And, how well do you know his meter is calibrated? I doubt it has a NIST calibration....   7 volts, 8 volts, 9 volts, how well is the battery charged? We are diagnosing a no spark at plugs condition, not a scientific project.😉

 

9 hours ago, Bloo said:

You cant really test a condenser with an ohmmeter. It is supposed to be open. If it isn't open, its bad. With a good one, you might get a "kick" the first time you try it with an ohmmeter. Don't put too much stock in it.

 

You can test it fine with an ohmmeter to see if it is THE no spark issue. Only looking to see it is not shorted or greatly leaky ( measureable resistance). His passed the test with flying colors. No, not going to get a value reading, unless he has a DMM with a capacitance scale, and then , yep, what should it be? Used to be listed in MoTor's manuals. For now, just buy a new one. 

 

[Bloo]

16 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

You can test it fine with an ohmmeter to see if it is THE no spark issue. Only looking to see it is not shorted or greatly leaky ( measureable resistance). His passed the test with flying colors. No, not going to get a value reading, unless he has a DMM with a capacitance scale, and then , yep, what should it be? Used to be listed in MoTor's manuals. For now, just buy a new one. 

 

Yes. However if it were open circuit you still probably wouldn't get enough spark to run. The ohmmeter should kick a little if the condenser is good, but then you would have to short it out before you tested it again, or it wouldn't kick. I agree, if there's any doubt buy a new one.

[padgett]

Points, condenser (archaic, is really a capacitor inna can), cap, plugs, and rotor was just a normal tune up. GM had a points and condenser assembly. How many still have a flex hex drive for setting GM points while running ? Heck how many have a dwell/tach ?

 

Have to remember that what is natural for us is a mystery for others. I sometime say things designed to discover skill level.

[JACK M]

35 minutes ago, padgett said:

How many still have a flex hex drive for setting GM points while running ? Heck how many have a dwell/tach ?

 

My hand is up.

[GARY F]

2 hours ago, JACK M said:

 

My hand is up.

Mine also.

[jan arnett (2)]

I have a dwell and know how to use it.  Remember Falcon and comet are clones

[keithb7]

Hand up...Dwell/tachometer and I use it!

[Frank DuVal]

What's a tach and Dwell meter or timing light? Set the harmonic balancer to what the timing should be, turn distributor until the points spark, tighten it down. Check points gap with eye. Get er Done!🤣  Of course, you need to have done this hundreds of times......😉

 

Old trick with window V-8 GM distributors was to turn the 1/8" allen wrench one way until the engine faltered, then the other way until it faltered, split the difference. Yes, I have the flex shaft wrench also. Other distributors, set points to .019" new and .016" used. Got to where the eye worked.....  Of course, on Corvairs the single bushing distributor would get sloppy and the points would close up after a while (long before the rubbing block wear was the issue), so setting by eye on the side of the road was a learned skill early. Also the point plate pivot wears on those distributors (on all 62 and later GM inline sixes). Have a trick to rebuild those also.

 

But Metalmoto is asking about Ford distributor......

[metalmoto]

21 hours ago, Bloo said:

Yes you could test one if you had a capacitance bridge, but I don't know what the value is either. They vary by make and model. The way to tell if the value is wrong is that metal transfers from one point to another, making a "mountain" on the points. You go through a lot of points, but still have spark. In old MoTor manuals there are pictures. Which point the mountain is on tells you whether you have too much or too little capacitance. The change in uF needed to correct it is usually very small.

 

You are correct that a bunch of spark at the points implies a bad condenser. When the points open, you get a little spark because you are breaking the circuit. But then, the magnetic field collapses in the coil, really fast, and the voltage goes sky high! But... nothing is grounded because the points are now open. The condenser can handle a pulse of current if it is there and good. If it is not there, the spark must jump at the spark plug AND the points. The spark at the plug will be weak. That really is how you tell.

 

Good luck

 

 

Hi Bloo, 

I found this very interesting, the way you described the metal transfer on the points.

I would imagine you would need to look at the points under a microscope or at least a magnifying glass to see this.

Anyway, I do have an ESR meter. I'd be curious to compare the readings of the old condenser to a new one.

When I get a chance, I will let you know what readings I find...

 

I think I'm good to go now, on the right path anyway. You have helped me immensely! Thank You.

I'm sure I could use a new set of wires too.

Oh, I have a tach/dwell meter and timing light, to help get it set right later. 

 

If I really wanted too, I could buy a PerTronix ignition system, and get rid of the points etc.

But my father drove the car daily for 5 years, with no problems. And if something did go wrong, it could easily be fixed on the side of the road, with the striker from a book of matches, and a screwdriver.

When something fails with an electronic ignition, your screwed, and will be walking home!

 

Besides, I'm not planning use the car as a daily driver. It only has front seat lap seat belts, and steel dashboard.

A collapsible steering column wasn't a safety feature back then.

When I think about all the miles we drove, and never even used the seat-belts. It was so different back then.

 

Once, driving to the Poconos, my dad had a 1969 Chevy Nova. The tie rod broke while driving 65 mph on the NE extension of the PA turnpike. The car veered into the dirt embankment. I still remember seeing coins, change from my mother's purse, sliding up the windshield, and raining down on us. The car rolled over 3 times, before coming to a stop. Nobody wore seat-belts.

We all survived with only minor scratches and bruises.... The car was totaled.

I digress...

 

The Falcon is a project. Something to do in my spare time. When I'm not fixing my Jeep or my wife's car.

Some day I "will" have it running and driving again. It will be named "Peggy" after my late mother Margaret, which everyone called her. She was a great woman, and raised me and  older brother to be very successful in life. She loved driving the Falcon...

 

I will update you on my progress. Attached is a picture of the car, the day I brought it home, after sitting 35 years.

Thank You, and everyone else, for your help on this.

[metalmoto]

13 hours ago, Graham Man said:

1965 Mustang and Falcon are basically the same car, Mustang is built on the Falcon platform, so all the mechanical parts are the same.   Any parts store should be able to help you out with carb rebuild kits, points, and coil.

 

I have a 1965 200cid Falcon 2 door hardtop, 3 on the tree.

 

Hi Graham,

 

Mine is a 2 door hardtop also. Automatic and power steering. The Futura is just the deluxe model, with a bit more chrome.

Not sure what else is different, perhaps is came standard with more options?

Otherwise, it's completely original, nothing had been modified or changed in anyway.

The car dealer it was originally purchased from was called "Rudy Valentino Ford".

I still have the licence plate frame with that name on it. And did some research, and that was the car dealers real name!

I even have the original owners manual, with all that info typed into the inside front cover of it.

 

Hope to get it running and driving again someday...

Mine is maroon with black interior.

 

 

[padgett]

And then there was the Falcon Sprint. V8 and a four speed. My kind of car.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, metalmoto said:

I found this very interesting, the way you described the metal transfer on the points.

I would imagine you would need to look at the points under a microscope or at least a magnifying glass to see this.

You certainly do not even need a magnifying glass.  Visible with the naked eye with the points opened.

[padgett]

Why back in the day ladies had nail files and men had points files. Yes burned points are very visible.

[metalmoto]

Hi,

 

I have spark now☺️.

It was a bad condenser.

Only the spark is yellow/white. Supposed to be blue.

I read someplace else, it's probably a weak ignition coil.

 

Got a new one. And it's sitting right next to me, begging to be installed.

Probably should get a new set of wires too.

Cap and rotor look good. So, i'll use them for now.

 

I just ordered a set of points files. What the heck...

 

My problems now, are with the carburetor rebuild.

 

I guess, I should start a new thread on this.

As I have lots of questions.

 

Look for "Autolite 1100 rebuild", if you want to follow my progress?

 

Thank You everyone, for your help on this!

 

Sincerely,

 

M

[Isaiah]

If you can start the motor at night with no lights on  you may see where you are losing some of  your volts !

 a bad wire will show up like a florescent light.