1923 23-45, hasn't run in years, needs who knows what

[Andy69]

I'm a motorhead, lots of car experience, but very little with something this old.

 

The car is in ok condition, older restoration with an amateurish paint job, appears complete and in good shape generally except it needs a good detailing.  It was stored inside for who knows how long.

 

Engine number: 1047359

Chassis number: 1019359

 

Not currently running.  No battery, no key, no crank handle (although I made one out of 3/4" pipe nipples and elbows so I could verify the engine was not stuck).

 

I'm assuming, at a minimum to get this running, I'll need:

 

Get a key made, unless it's easy enough to bypass the switch

Change all fluids and filters

Carb rebuild

New plugs, etc

battery

Check the fuses (does it have fuses?)

 

I ordered a shop manual for it.

 

I'm wondering, anything else specific to a car this old I should check?  Brakes, transmission fluid, grease fittings, etc?

 

Thank you for any assistance.

[Cured]

There is a you tube video about a Buick’s first start in about 50 years. Very amateur. He could do it. You can too. 

[Morgan Wright]

No pictures, no talky.

[Morgan Wright]

You don't need a key if it's already unlocked. Can you turn the ignition switch on? If so, you don't need a key. If you can't, then you are in trouble.

[Hubert_25-25]

Andy,  

     Welcome.  You came to the right place.  There is a lot of pot metal in these cars that has to be addressed.  The ignition switch is one of them.  I am going to post my new Pre War Buick Owners guide.  I have lots of other technical documents already posted so try a search but don't be afraid to ask if you don't find what you are looking for.    Please post some pictures when you have time.  Hugh    

 

New Buick Owners Guide & Prewar Starting guide.          Hugh Leidlein                  12-18-20   C

Welcome to Buick ownership.  Here are some tips to get you started.

The following books are necessary for Pre war Buick Ownership.   They come based on 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder models prior to 1925, or for Standard or Master 1925 and up.  Basically around 115” wheelbase is the smaller Buick series and 120 to 128” wheelbase is the larger Buick series. 

The Buick Heritage Alliance sells the following books.  The quality of the copies is only “fair” in many cases.  This may work for some people, depending on how many pieces your car is missing or needing.  I suggest buying an original book of parts if you can find it due to the better print quality.   

1)      The “Book of Parts” for your year.  

2)      The “Shop Manual” for your year

3)      The “reference book” for your year (of lesser importance if you can find a shop manual).

It is helpful in many cases to obtain copies of the parts books for 1 or 2 years before and after your model year.  Many times there is additional information or photos that will help with your understanding.

Note: Only a handful of parts used on a 4 cylinder model fit a 6 cylinder model.  Same with so few Standard parts will fit a Master.  The 4 cylinder line became the Standard, and the 6 cylinder line became the Master so there is interchangeability in that order.  Parts interchange is closest based on wheelbase of the models      

There is also available a big book of parts “Buick Master Parts List 1916-1932”.  This 3” thick book provides a listing of the yea

rs and models for each part.  You will have better luck finding a part knowing it’s year and model range rather than just looking for a single year.   This book does not have a lot of pictures and will not be a good substitute for the book of parts for your year, but I refer to this book frequently.   Some find it of little use - based on how many parts they are missing.

There are almost zero “exploded views” of parts, so take a lot of photos and notes during disassembly. 

------------ Precautions------ THESE ARE NOT MODERN ENGINES------Damage can occur.

The first order is usually to see if the engine will turn over.  Do the following first.

1)      Pull the Water pump hoses

 The water pump is on the side of the motor.  The issue is that the camshaft gear is fiber on 1924-1928 Buick 6 cylinders, and it drives the waterpump.  If the water pump is frozen or drags, it will destroy the timing gear teeth.  Parts will fall in the engine.  The camshaft gears are expensive and new gears are not of the same quality as the originals.  The first order of business should be to remove the water pump hoses to ensure the pump rotates on the shaft.   Without the hoses, it should rotate 180 degrees. Note that some earlier models have a water pump housing bolt that also needs to be removed.       

Water pump shafts are steel unless a recent replacement to stainless.  The water pump bearings are bronze.  If the antifreeze was not cared for, rust on the WP shaft could wear the bronze bearings out quickly.  The WP seal is graphite packing.  The wear surface should be smooth and the packing should only be tight enough to prevent major leaks of the waterpump.  It should drip a little bit here and there.  If it does not, the packing is too tight.  Most people replace the shaft with a stainless steel shaft.

2)      Change the oil (and filter if it has one).  Strongly consider dropping the oil pan as well. 

An oil change is probably long overdue.   Don’t cut corners and skip dropping the pan.  Pre 1926 cars had no oil filter.  Non detergent oil was used for years, and there is likely a lot of sludge in the oil pan.  I have seen the oil pick up screens clogged from sludge, and this will starve the engine and could suck the screen in.  Bob’s Automobilia or Olsons Gaskets has an oil pan gasket set.  This is not a hard job.

3)      Oil the Cylinders

Pull the spark plugs, put some oil in the cylinders.  If penetrating oil or Marvel mystery oil was used in the cylinders, you must follow it with regular oil once the engine begins to turn. 

4)      Pull the valve cover. 

Squirt oil on the rocker assembly.  Bump the rockers with a rubber mallet over the valve springs to ensure that all the valves move.  Drip oil on the valve stems if you can.

5)      Pull the engine side covers.

Squirt oil on the cam shaft rollers (and cam bearings if you can get to them). 

After doing the above 5 items, you could rotate the motor, even crank it with the starter.  If the engine is or was frozen, let the cylinders soak for at least a week in penetrating lube.  It is best to try to unstick a frozen engine from the flywheel end and not the hand crank end.  The handcrank is not that strong.  Put the transmission in 1^st gear.  Use 4 people (2 in front and 2 at the back) to rock the car back and forth in an effort to free the pistons.  Parts frozen by rust come apart easier if you work the frozen part back and forth rather than continually forcing the rotation thru the rust.  Reversing rotation allows some rust to move out of compression between the parts.

Note that the pistons are removed only from the bottom of the engine on early Buick motors.  If you do get the engine to rotate, strongly consider pulling the pistons out the bottom and cleaning the cylinder walls and the ring grooves and doing an inspection - prior to reinstalling and firing the engine.     

It would be great to get a compression tester.  Around 60 lbs pressure in each cylinder is a good motor.  There should be less than 10% deviation in each cylinder.  Spark plug adapters are available from Ford Model A parts suppliers.    

Cranking the motor is a good thing to check off the list.  A compression test gives a good check on the health of the motor. 

Preparing for starting – knowing that the motor turns over:

1)      Pull the carburetor. 

a)      Clean out the fuel bowl. 

b)      Use carburetor cleaner to ensure all internal passages blow thru. 

c)       Consider installing a Nitrolphyl float – available from Bob’s Automobilia or Gregg Lange. 

d)      Check that the air valve lays smooth against the carburetor inside diameter and that there is a narrow gap at the base of the air valve.  You may need to file the pot metal venturi block.  There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Marvel Carburetor Rebuilding”.

2)      Check that the exhaust manifold valve (on the front end of the exhaust manifold) is open.  There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Buick Exhaust valve removal”.

3)      Rebuild the distributor.  The distributor should rotate by the advance levers on the steering column.  Several years of distributors were pot metal and the distributor housing will grow and freeze into the generator housing.   Replace with a steel Buick distributor from other years.  Do not force the movement as there are potmetal gears at the base of the steering column that are not that strong.  There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Distributor Replacement”.  Also search for “Distributor rebuilding”.

4)      Rebuild the Water pump. (see the forum for upgrades to the seals and shaft). There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Water Pump Rebuilding”.

5)      The fan hub is an old design that requires frequent oiling and will leak oil all over the motor.  Replace it with a sealed bearing hub – Several suppliers for this.  Search the AACA Forum “fan hub replacement”.

6)      Rebuild the vacuum tank and gas tank * I prefer to do the “fuel supply” system later as there is a lot to this.  For a first start, I hang a 1 quart used lawnmower tank and feed the carburetor with this from a reinforced rubber fuel hose, or just pour gas in the vacuum tank.  It will hold about a quart. Search the AACA Forum “vacuum tank rebuilding”.

 

Other notes:

Oil and grease is usually long overdue for removing the old and installing new (and not just installing new.)  Clean out as much of the old as you can first.

 

Engines that have laid dormant for decades may have significant rust in the engine block.  You do not want this in your honeycomb radiator as they cannot be rodded out.  Consider installing a Gano filter into the top radiator hose to catch sediment and keep rust out of the radiator.  Also consider removing the engine freeze plugs and cleaning any rust out of the block, or at least reverse flushing out the engine water jacket with water and without radiator hoses just prior to start up.

The firing order is 142635.  (Reverse of a modern engine)

Pot metal failures cause problems.  The following areas will likely need attention

1.       Distributors – housing growth prevents spark advance.  discussed above

2.       Carburetor – venture growth – prevents easy starting and idling – discussed above

3.       Ignition switch – switch shaft grows, housing hole grows smaller-  Bob’s Automobilia has parts-replace both housing and switches.

4.       Speedometers – internals freeze up.  Disconnect the cable to prevent cable damage. 

 

Inspect the oil pick up screen.  Most are weak or have failed.  Use 50/50 solder to replace the screen.  Screen size is .005 brass 32 x 38 wires per inch.

 

New Buick Owners order of work 2.  More notes and items to think about.

 

1) Pull the water pump off first.   The 2 hoses are old and need replacement anyways.  The pump can now be rebuilt .  

2) squirt some oil in the cylinders.  About a tablespoons worth in each.  Consider even using engine fogging spray to lubricate the cylinder walls

3) Are you willing to drain the oil and drop the pan.  I have not found a person who has ever said dropping the pan was a waste of time.  If nothing else, you have peace of mind that any old engine sludge is not lurking.  Most people are glad that they dropped to pan and cleaned the pan out.  Inspect the oil pump and the oil pump screen.  Consider pulling the oil pump and having it checked.    Egge can rebuild it if necessary and install a new pressure relief valve spring.  I have seen several broken springs.  The oil suction screens are also weak and typically torn.  These need to be inspected. 

4) Pull the valve cover and side covers.  Oil the valve train.  Check that each rocker arm and cam roller  moves.  

5) Put 6 volts on the starter and see if it operates on the floor.  You can use 12 volts if you keep the time short.  Say 15 seconds, then rest time for any heat to be removed.  Consider having it rebuilt while it is out.       

6) Install new gaskets on the Oil pan.  Add Fresh oil and a new filter.    

With the water pump off, and the valve train checked and oiled, you should be able to turn the engine without damaging anything.  If you have the hand crank, a couple rotations should tell if everything is moving.  Do the initial cranking with the spark plugs out.  If it hand cranks well, put the starter motor in and give it a few more rotations.  

Install the valve cover and side covers and gaskets after you have witnessed that all the valve train parts are operating properly.  

After this, we work on ignition and carburation, so lets start with the above first to keep the work manageable.  The goal is pumping fresh oil thru the motor and that it turns over.     

7)     Early engines (around 1918) use cotter pins on the wrist pins.  This is not a robust design.  If the age of the rebuild is unknown, consider going in and replacing the cotter pins.  These can be changed with the engine in place if the pan is removed.   

😎Fiber timing gears used on all the sixes after 24, and Into the eights. I don't know when they quit.  1954?

Hugh 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Brian_Heil]

Welcome Andy  

 

Happy to help.  

 

Highly recommend pulling the pan also.

 

When you get it and the oil pump cleaned you can inspect the bearings too.

 

When the pan goes back up, fill the dipper troughs first.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Brian_Heil (see edit history)

[Andy69]

Pictures

[Andy69]

It was pretty dirty.  The top had been down for years and was covered in mildew, as were the seats.  Spent about 2 hours yesterday with a spray bottle of vinegar water and some rags and got it pretty clean.  The paint job looks like it was done by a kid, or maybe Earl Sheib - lots of sanding scratches and orange peel.  A cut and buff might turn it from a 4 of 10 to a 6.

[Andy69]

2 minutes ago, Ben P. said:

Wow. Another Lyon bumper.

Now that’s interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

[Andy69]

26 minutes ago, Ben P. said:

Nice car.

Bumpers were not yet factory on these cars. The Lyon Resilient Bumper is, IMO, the nicest looking accessory bumper for these cars hands down. They look built for it.

My ‘18 had one, didn’t know what it was until running across that original ad posted on this thread: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/304719-another-1918-e49/page/3/. Many other photos of it were added.

With your car, that makes 3 Lyon bumpers I’ve seen.

 

It’s got one on the back too

[Morgan Wright]

Nice ride.

[Larry Schramm]

Welcome to the group.  Where are you located?

 

Hubert gives you some great advice on where to start on getting your car road ready.

[Mark Kikta]

I have a Lyon bumper in the front also

[Hubert_25-25]

Andy, 

   Another option for the hand crank.  Hugh

[Morgan Wright]

Farmall Tractor cranks are pretty common, and cheap, but you will need to bore it out to 13/16", and open up the drive pin slots a little with a rat tail file.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=farmall+tractor+hand+crank&_sacat=0

 

.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

Morgan, 

 Excellent suggestion on the Farmall tractor cranks. 

 

Andy, just verify the size of your engine hand crank shaft.  I believe the larger Buicks used 13/16" or 7/8" shafts, and the 4 cylinder and Standards used 3/4" shafts.   It should slide over the shaft easily, but not be too sloppy.       Hugh

 

[Andy69]

On 2/16/2020 at 2:53 PM, Hubert_25-25 said:

Andy,  

     Welcome.  You came to the right place.  There is a lot of pot metal in these cars that has to be addressed.  The ignition switch is one of them.  I am going to post my new Pre War Buick Owners guide.  I have lots of other technical documents already posted so try a search but don't be afraid to ask if you don't find what you are looking for.    Please post some pictures when you have time.  Hugh    

 

New Buick Owners Guide & Prewar Starting guide.          Hugh Leidlein                  12-22-19   C

Welcome to Buick ownership.  Here are some tips to get you started.

The following books are necessary for Pre war Buick Ownership.   They come based on 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder models prior to 1925, or for Standard or Master 1925 and up.  Basically around 115” wheelbase is the smaller Buick series and 120 to 128” wheelbase is the larger Buick series. 

The Buick Heritage Alliance sells the following books.  The quality of the copies is only “fair” in many cases.  This may work for some people, depending on how many pieces your car is missing or needing.  I suggest buying an original book of parts if you can find it due to the better print quality.  

1)      The “Book of Parts” for your year.  

2)      The “Shop Manual” for your year

3)      The “reference book” for your year (of lesser importance if you can find a shop manual).

It is helpful in many cases to obtain copies of the parts books for 1 or 2 years before and after your model year.  Many times there is additional information or photos that will help with your understanding.

Note: Only a handful of parts used on a 4 cylinder model fit a 6 cylinder model.  Same with so few Standard parts will fit a Master.  The 4 cylinder line became the Standard, and the 6 cylinder line became the Master so there is interchangeability in that order.  Parts interchange is closest based on wheelbase of the models      

There is also available a big book of parts “Buick Master Parts List 1916-1932”.  This 3” thick book provides a listing of the years and models for each part.  You will have better luck finding a part knowing it’s year and model range rather than just looking for a single year.   This book does not have a lot of pictures and will not be a good substitute for the book of parts for your year, but I refer to this book frequently.   Some find it of little use - based on how many parts they are missing.

There are almost zero “exploded views” of parts, so take a lot of photos and notes during disassembly. 

------------ Precautions------ THESE ARE NOT MODERN ENGINES------Damage can occur.

The first order is usually to see if the engine will turn over.  Do the following first.

1)      Pull the Water pump hoses

 The water pump is on the side of the motor.  The issue is that the camshaft gear is fiber, and it drives the waterpump.  If the water pump is frozen or drags, it will destroy the timing gear teeth.  Parts will fall in the engine.  The camshaft gears are expensive and new gears are not of the same quality as the originals.  The first order of business should be to remove the water pump hoses to ensure the pump rotates on the shaft.   Without the hoses, it should rotate 180 degrees. Note that some earlier models have a water pump housing bolt that also needs to be removed.       

Water pump shafts are steel unless a recent replacement to stainless.  The water pump bearings are bronze.  If the antifreeze was not cared for, rust on the WP shaft could wear the bronze bearings out quickly.  The WP seal is graphite packing.  The wear surface should be smooth and the packing should only be tight enough to prevent major leaks of the waterpump.  It should drip a little bit here and there.  If it does not, the packing is too tight.  Most people replace the shaft with a stainless steel shaft.

2)      Change the oil (and filter if it has one).  Strongly consider dropping the oil pan as well. 

An oil change is probably long overdue.   Don’t cut corners and skip dropping the pan.  Pre 1926 cars had no oil filter.  Non detergent oil was used for years, and there is likely a lot of sludge in the oil pan.  I have seen the oil pick up screens clogged from sludge, and this will starve the engine and could suck the screen in.  Bob’s Automobilia or Olsons Gaskets has an oil pan gasket set.  This is not a hard job.

3)      Oil the Cylinders

Pull the spark plugs, put some oil in the cylinders.  If penetrating oil or Marvel mystery oil was used in the cylinders, you must follow it with regular oil once the engine begins to turn. 

4)      Pull the valve cover. 

Squirt oil on the rocker assembly.  Bump the rockers with a rubber mallet over the valve springs to ensure that all the valves move.  Drip oil on the valve stems if you can.

5)      Pull the engine side covers.

Squirt oil on the cam shaft rollers (and cam bearings if you can get to them). 

After doing the above 5 items, you could rotate the motor, even crank it with the starter.  If the engine is or was frozen, let the cylinders soak for at least a week in penetrating lube.  It is best to try to unstick a frozen engine from the flywheel end and not the hand crank end.  The handcrank is not that strong.  Put the transmission in 1^st gear.  Use 4 people (2 in front and 2 at the back) to rock the car back and forth in an effort to free the pistons.  Parts frozen by rust come apart easier if you work the frozen part back and forth rather than continually forcing the rotation thru the rust.  Reversing rotation allows some rust to move out of compression between the parts.

Note that the pistons are removed only from the bottom of the engine on early Buick motors.  If you do get the engine to rotate, strongly consider pulling the pistons out the bottom and cleaning the cylinder walls and the ring grooves and doing an inspection - prior to reinstalling and firing the engine.     

It would be great to get a compression tester.  Around 60 lbs pressure in each cylinder is a good motor.  There should be less than 10% deviation in each cylinder.  Spark plug adapters are available from Ford Model A parts suppliers.    

Cranking the motor is a good thing to check off the list.  A compression test gives a good check on the health of the motor. 

Preparing for starting – knowing that the motor turns over:

1)      Pull the carburetor. 

a)      Clean out the fuel bowl. 

b)      Use carburetor cleaner to ensure all internal passages blow thru. 

c)       Consider installing a Nitrolphyl float – available from Bob’s Automobilia or Gregg Lange. 

d)      Check that the air valve lays smooth against the carburetor inside diameter and that there is a narrow gap at the base of the air valve.  You may need to file the pot metal venturi block.  There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Marvel Carburetor Rebuilding”.

2)      Check that the exhaust manifold valve (on the front end of the exhaust manifold) is open.  There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Buick Exhaust valve removal”.

3)      Rebuild the distributor.  The distributor should rotate by the advance levers on the steering column.  Several years of distributors were pot metal and the distributor housing will grow and freeze into the generator housing.   Replace with a steel Buick distributor from other years.  Do not force the movement as there are potmetal gears at the base of the steering column that are not that strong.  There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Distributor Replacement”.  Also search for “Distributor rebuilding”.

4)      Rebuild the Water pump. (see the forum for upgrades to the seals and shaft). There are AACA forum posts on this – search using the quote “Water Pump Rebuilding”.

5)      The fan hub is an old design that requires frequent oiling and will leak oil all over the motor.  Replace it with a sealed bearing hub – Several suppliers for this.  Search the AACA Forum “fan hub replacement”.

6)      Rebuild the vacuum tank and gas tank * I prefer to do the “fuel supply” system later as there is a lot to this.  For a first start, I hang a 1 quart used lawnmower tank and feed the carburetor with this from a reinforced rubber fuel hose, or just pour gas in the vacuum tank.  It will hold about a quart. Search the AACA Forum “vacuum tank rebuilding”.

 

Other notes:

Oil and grease is usually long overdue for removing the old and installing new (and not just installing new.)  Clean out as much of the old as you can first.

 

Engines that have laid dormant for decades may have significant rust in the engine block.  You do not want this in your honeycomb radiator as they cannot be rodded out.  Consider installing a Gano filter into the top radiator hose to catch sediment and keep rust out of the radiator.  Also consider removing the engine freeze plugs and cleaning any rust out of the block, or at least reverse flushing out the engine water jacket with water and without radiator hoses just prior to start up.

The firing order is 142635.  (Reverse of a modern engine).

 

This is great, thank you.  I never would have known about the fiber gear thing.

 

i hope I can get to this soon.  I just brought home a 1917 Dodge touring car that looks great but has a stuck engine.  Too many projects. 

[Brian_Heil]

Almost certain 1923 still had a metal cam gear. 
 

Believe the change to a fiber gear was in 1924

 

Someone with a master parts book keep me honest here please 

 

thx!

[Hubert_25-25]

Timing gear set 17045 is 1924 6 cyl, 1925-1928 Master.  So Fiber 1924 and up for sure.  Anyone know about 1923 and earlier.  It would be nice to know the metalurgy on the early cars too regarding an acceptible alternative.  

The next grouping is

184993 1922-23-24 6 cylinder 

and

185126  1922-23-24 4 cylinder

Hugh

Edited February 19, 2020 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Andy69]

On 2/16/2020 at 8:30 PM, Larry Schramm said:

Welcome to the group.  Where are you located?

 

Hubert gives you some great advice on where to start on getting your car road ready.

Memphis, TN

[Jim Milewski]

My six cylinder 1923 series parts book  shows timing gear set 159366 - includes crank, cam, water pump, gears and woodruff key

 

Jim

[Morgan Wright]

9 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Timing gear set 17045 is 1924 6 cyl, 1925-1928 Master.  So Fiber 1924 and up for sure.  Anyone know about 1923 and earlier.  It would be nice to know the metalurgy on the early cars too regarding an acceptible alternative.  

The next grouping is

184993 1922-23-24 6 cylinder 

and

185126  1922-23-24 4 cylinder

Hugh

 

 

I have metal timing gears on both my E-49s

[Hubert_25-25]

The E-49 gear set is 1918, 1919, 1920. 

I have seen the reproduction fiber gears for sale and they lack the metal hub that the original gears have.  That is a lot of stress to put on a keyslot in a fiber hub.   I guess they figured that out nearly 100 years ago and someone forgot to look in the old play book.    Hugh

[jbbuick22]

The metal gears started in 1923, and they will fit the older engines.

 

John

[Andy69]

On 2/16/2020 at 8:30 PM, Larry Schramm said:

Welcome to the group.  Where are you located?

 

Hubert gives you some great advice on where to start on getting your car road ready.

 

I'm in Memphis, TN.

[Hubert_25-25]

The big parts book does list the camshaft gear separate.  In the year specific "book of parts", they are only listed as a set.  Interesting that they also show oversize gears.  Anyone know when they stopped using fiber gears?  

 

[jbbuick22]

Hugh

I think 1922 was the last for fiber gears

 

John

[Wild Bill 1926]

Hey All ... Newbe here ,..

I just took on a Barn find 26 Standard.

On jacks from 29-1968,.. Purchased and ran for 68/69 (On jacks when stored for the winter)

All tires are from the 20s,. New inter tubes were installed in 68,.. AND 3 ARE STILL HOLDING AIR AFTER 2 WEEKS! (One has a slow leak)

Last started in 1970,. drove it into the garage and shes been on jacks since.

Just took her home. all original except the horn and the firewall tank/passengers side. They think its stored somewhere,. It didnt work in 68 so they replaced it with a VW horn.

Pictures below are after I spent 12 hours, a nylon brush and WD40 CAREFULLY cleaning 3/4in of oily grime (Which was protecting the cast iron and bolts..)

 

 

I Did a "Google" for starting a 26 Buick and found you guys. 

 

Hubert 25-25,.. I printed out your post and will follow your advice... perfect!! 

Good thing I read your post before trying to turn her,.. the water pump, the ignition switch, and the distributor are stuck due to potmetal expansion.

Other than that, The motor is in perfect shape inside and out..

Thank You all for sharing your knowledge. I believe I just hooked in with some new friends.

 

Wild Bill 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Wild Bill 1926 (see edit history)

[Robert Engle]

welcome to the forum.  Lots of help here when needed.

 

Bob Engle

[Hubert_25-25]

Wild Bill, 

      Welcome.  We are all working together to learn from each other and keep these Buicks runnning.  Please post some other photos of your car.  It looks like you have a real nice one there.   Here is another note that I added to the list.  

Pot metal failures cause problems.  The following areas will likely need attention

1.       Distributors – housing growth prevents spark advance.  discussed above

2.       Carburetor – venture growth – prevents easy starting and idling – discussed above

3.       Ignition switch – switch shaft grows, housing hole grows smaller-  Bob’s Automobilia has parts-replace both housing and switches.

4.       Speedometers – internals freeze up.  Disconnect the cable to prevent cable damage. 

 

Hugh 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Wild Bill 1926]

25 minutes ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Wild Bill, 

      Welcome.  We are all working together to learn from each other and keep these Buicks runnning.  Please post some other photos of your car.  It looks like you have a real nice one there.   Here is another note that I added to the list.  

Pot metal failures cause problems.  The following areas will likely need attention

1.       Distributors – housing growth prevents spark advance.  discussed above

2.       Carburetor – venture growth – prevents easy starting and idling – discussed above

3.       Ignition switch – switch shaft grows, housing hole grows smaller-  Bob’s Automobilia has parts-replace both housing and switches.

4.       Speedometers – internals freeze up.  Disconnect the cable to prevent cable damage. 

 

Hugh 

Thanks Bob for the welcome,

Hugh,.. Thanks for the input,..

All the typical components are stuck,, I plan to free each component before a start attempt.

The valves are free, so I think the next thing will be to remove the water pump and jog the motor free. 

Next step is to bore scope the cylinders where they sat,.. so far they look great but I need to see where it sat for 50 years.

Then Ill drop the oil pan to clean that out, and go thru each component.

once I get her running, then ill buy new tires. The previous own will help with the split rims. 

 

Ill send more pics tomorrow,.. I don't have them in this puter.

The previous owner painted the rims, bumpers, radiator bezel, and touched up a few places where the paint chipped.

it was a preservation attempt more than a restoration.

Im glad,.. it kept the parts in great condition.

 

 

[Wild Bill 1926]

More pics

Front wheel, before/after a careful archaeological extraction. bits of the original linkage boots was mixed in the muck.

The dirt/grease mixture preserved the components.

 

Wheel condition,..

I plan to paint the spit rims silver and install new black wall tires,..

leave the rest. 

[Wild Bill 1926]

Delivery day... Betty was uncovered, tires inflated, Dead bedded to my house and rolled to this position. 

....Yes, I named her,.. and Yes, I know that means I have to keep her.

 

[Robert Engle]

Andy:  Being a motor head myself, I have enjoyed learning about my 1917 Buick.  I'm sure you will enjoy the journey as you learn about and get your great find back on the road.  

 

Bob Engle

[Morgan Wright]

2 hours ago, Wild Bill 1926 said:

More pics

 

 

 

 

Never seen front mechanical brakes before, I bet that was tricky to engineer

[dibarlaw]

Yes Morgan. A whole lot going on with this design. Photo after I rebuilt these on my 1925 Master. Internal return springs were broken and the passenger side was totally locked up with no movement of any pivoting parts. I made new fitted clevis pins. Now I have at least 3 wheel brakes since one of the rear brake shaft return spring is broken. The former owner drove the car with out operating front brakes for years around his farm. Quite a thrill the first time I drove the car down his farm lane. All components must pivot with a minimum of play.

 The leather boot is to cover the greased shaft which the outside brake unit is allowed to telescope in and out. Later models have a boot over the pivot assembly on the brake back plate.

 

   Reaming worn component for oversize pin.

 

 

[Andy69]

Update.  Drained the oil.  About 3 quarts came out, very slowly.  Probably a lot of sludge.  Tried to remove the oil pan but there is at least one bolt covered by the transmission bell housing.  So that looks like a no go unless it can be done without dropping the transmission.  Is there an alternate way of cleaning out the sump?

 

Pulled the carb and disassembled it.  It’s actually a Carter BB-1 from a 1940s cabover Chevrolet (carb no. 517s).  Dumped about a teaspoon full of rust out of the float bowl.  Good news is rebuild kits are much easier to come by and it’s a better carburetor.  Also much easier to find a replacement if it comes to that.
 

It’s also been converted to electric fuel pump - not by me.
 

Removed the engine and valve covers to check everything out.  Seems to be in good order.   Put some oil in the proper places and turned the engine by hand, and I didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.  
 

going to put a new battery in it, rebuild the carb, add oil, and go from there.

[Morgan Wright]

 

29 minutes ago, Andy69 said:

Update.  Drained the oil.  About 3 quarts came out, very slowly.  Probably a lot of sludge.  Tried to remove the oil pan but there is at least one bolt covered by the transmission bell housing.  So that looks like a no go unless it can be done without dropping the transmission.  Is there an alternate way of cleaning out the sump?

 

 

 

It's not the transmission bell housing. It's only the flywheel cover and it comes off with a few bolts. It's a pain, but the flywheel cover needs to come off anyway to clean out the mouse nest.

[Andy69]

Ok I see it now.  No wonder these cars are so heavy.  The flywheel cover on my Chevelle weighs about 6 ounces.

 

lots of sludge in it, along with A LOT of grit.  I saved some of it to clean it off and take a closer look but I think it’s just grit as opposed to bearing material.  
 

[Andy69]

Cleaned the sump out (that stuff is nasty.  This is the dirtiest car I've worked on, ever), made a new cork gasket from roll cork from the hobby store and got it reinstalled.  Waiting for the carb kit to arrive.  Took the top and side engine covers off and checked the rockers and valves with a rubber mallet.  Looks like everything is loose but one of the push rods has a slight bend in it so I'll probably have to address that first.  NAPA has the 6v battery I need.  Racing season starts this weekend so it might be next week sometime before I can try to start it.