Brooklyn Beer Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 Well I think this carb is screwed looking now closer at the ACC pump. The hand throttle barely moves at all. This carb is leaking from the shafts as well. Here is the best picture of the tag. I do not see any vacuum plug for ported vacuum either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Looks like a rebuild is order . That tag does not appear to be mouned correct and your pic is bottom of it . I think it is 150s . But only way to know for sure is opening up and checking jet sizes . 150s were older and on prior model engine . Leaks shaft depends may need shaft or bushings . Do not see back side showing where port is . More pics , maybe with mirror and a little farther away . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31plymouth Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Is that a Chevy carb? Longer pump on the side. Vertical. The 209S has a shorter accelerator pump on an angle . Looking at 1st picture posted, the carb flange is not the same shape as the manifold. Drt08-209s has the same shape as the manifold. If it works Good! Just get it running. Is It easier to put a BB1 on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 I could not feel a port. Would not mind buying a correctDRT-08-209s and keeping this one as a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 The car is running and driving but I don't think I am getting enough fuel. Power feels lacking. I don't feel a vacuum port plug on the engine side of the carb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broker-len Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 there is a little hole on inside of carb throat at top where flange meets manifold if yours is open could be your running proplem that goes to vacuum advance do you have a owner's manual ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, broker-len said: there is a little hole on inside of carb throat at top where flange meets manifold if yours is open could be your running proplem that goes to vacuum advance do you have a owner's manual ? Yep. I was feeling around behind the carb and just not feel anything. Found my little mirror last night so will do a little more investigating and see if there is a plug (should be) I do have a manual but it is a 32 first edition "New Finer Plymouth" I don't think I have an open port. Today I will spray around the carb with it running and see if I have any vac leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broker-len Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 does the manual state PB ? you will see carb I friend of mine in North Jersey, about an Hr from me has a bunch of carter BB1s Gene 201 953 4255 mention my name Bob Romano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 The car is a PA. I am just going off many posting in the plymouth community about using a BB1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLay Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 you should take every thing off, get your manifolds sealing. find a carb that will work with vacuum spark control. DRT-08 209 S. 1929 30 cars used cable control spark advance.the carter BB1 will work but your air cleaner will have to be cobbled to fit angled carb inlet.that vacuum line to the dist.should be removed for now you cant have constant vacuum at dist spark control.the right dist. will have weights and springs below point plate that advance the timing based on RPM's then the vacuum spark con trol pulls the whole dist. to retard timming alittle bit at very low RPM. if you dont have vac control hooked up on a good running engine you wont miss it much the cintrifical ad vance weights in the dist. do all of the work advancing the timing.the vacuum unit kind of relaxes the motor a little at low rpm .( reduce bearing load ,smoother shifting). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 So what will you need to see to determine if I have the proper distributor and can just plug the vacuum advance at this time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLay Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 the BB1 carbs are alot easier to find and cheaper than drt-08 with vac fitting. but you will have the breather issues and the throat of bb1 carb is bigger accullay desinged for the three bolt manifolds. three bolt manifolds where used mostly on PB engines with the larger intake valves.PB increased horse power package inclued larger intake valves,larger intake ports larger carb. different breather.your correct breather is about impossable to find and if you do will cost way more than the right carb that is possible to find .i would look for the DRT-08 just because you have the breather.as i said the BB1 will fit your two bolt manifold and is a better (improved) carb.that you see on alot of PA's . carb mounting holes on two bolt intake manifold would have to be elongated slightly for BB1 to fit. also the manifolds can be tricky to fit and seal but of corse very important to get right first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 Sounds good. Someone out there has to have one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLay Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) your dist. looks to be correct .629H is the right number for PA engine. plug the vac line on the intake manifold that one is for your wiper motor.if that incorrect vac control is leaking that could be why shes not running well right now. if it is working it is just pulling you to retard.( not based on acceleration.) the correct vac control is pretty much impossable to find. i rigged up a period correct chevy vac control. the vac control as i said pulls the whole dist about 1/2 inch clock wise only in low rpm. the spring in the vac control pushes dist back. the dist should move freely in the mounting braket slot. the clamp screw on mounting braket is loosened to set timimg. also that leaking exhaust manifold can burn a valve long term.by the way i ment to say nice looking car. Edited December 10, 2019 by JamesLay mistake (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 OK, here is the carb that is in there. RJH 08. Dead wrong there. I do not think the vac control is working anyway as removing the vacuum from it did nothing. So I turned the distributor clock-wise within the parameters of the hold down and tightened it down so the distributor would not move. Pulled choke out and it started much, MUCH easier and went to an idle faster. I ran around and increased the idle a little bit as it was needed. It seems to run pretty good (Except of course the major exhaust leak at the flange itself. It doesn't stumble giving it gas but still feels like it is still lacking power. The temps actually came down as well. (60 here right now and I think no thermostat in it as it stayed around 155-160) Took it for a run down the 1 mile hill I live on (freewheeling works) and back up and I didn't have to downshift to second to get back up. It is a pretty good hill and sure was a test for it. I am going to call this a minor victory and now move it down to the lower garage to do the manifold gaskets and move the Franklin up the hill to the lift to change out the gear oils. I do have a vid of it running after I did these too it but too large to load here if you'd like to hear it and see it my email is chrisgiddyup06@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Many different Carter carburetors of the type RJH-08, one of which is the 1928 Plymouth (which is a smaller engine, so the engine would be down on power). This is also true of the DRT-08. These are types, just like a Rochester quadrajet is a type (more modern) of carburetor; NOT a positive identification. The 1931 Plymouth PA would have originally used a type DRT-08, tag number 209s. Good luck on finding a tagged 1931, as the tags were made from red cardboard. Carter quickly found out the cardboard tags were not overly durable, so in the mid-1930's Carter changed to a brass tag. One occasionally finds a 209s brass tagged carb with a service date (same carb, just made as a service unit after production). These do not grow on trees, and service parts, other than fuel valve and gaskets, can get rather pricey. Jon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32plywood Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 finally someone understands that the vacuum unit on a PA/PB -- turns the distributor and retards the spark some I don't think that has ever been stated here before ---- Thanks 6 hours ago, JamesLay said: you should take every thing off, get your manifolds sealing. find a carb that will work with vacuum spark control. DRT-08 209 S. 1929 30 cars used cable control spark advance.the carter BB1 will work but your air cleaner will have to be cobbled to fit angled carb inlet.that vacuum line to the dist.should be removed for now you cant have constant vacuum at dist spark control.the right dist. will have weights and springs below point plate that advance the timing based on RPM's then the vacuum spark control pulls the whole dist. to retard timing a little bit at very low RPM. if you don't have vac control hooked up on a good running engine you wont miss it much the centrifical advance weights in the dist. do all of the work advancing the timing.the vacuum unit kind of relaxes the motor a little at low rpm .( reduce bearing load ,smoother shifting). I think this is good info. Allan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 So then let me ask if I did the right thing by turning the distributor in the clockwise direction within the allowable moveable area that would be dictated by the vac control? Or should I have turned in counter clockwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Did you ever purchase an Instruction Book for the car? It has a lot of the information you are asking about. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1931-New-PLYMOUTH-OWNERS-MANUAL-Instruction-Book-NOT-Reproduction-Original/264542660850?hash=item3d97f8a8f2:g:7PkAAOSwEFhdyNrD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Another.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Plymouth-7-1931-Instruction-Book/174117023387?hash=item288a2eee9b:g:ynoAAOSwfeddxXAs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) I believe it is ccw . As this cw makes easier to start , Hence used when hand cranking . That being said it is all relevant to how car's distr. was tuned to start . Edited December 9, 2019 by ArticiferTom cw -also (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Pic of backside of 209s pointing to port . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLay Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) okay, there are a couple of things going on with timing adjustment.the long screw going through dist. bracket (horizontal) is what you loosen to turn the dist inside the bracket.the screw that is in the slot that screws into the engine should be shoulder type screw.it should not tighten the dist bracket to timing cover of engine. that is your vac control movement.if your vac control is not connected you shouldn't need to do any thing with it for now.dist and bracket move together back and forth about 1/2 inch with in slot every time you accelerate from idle. ( with a working vac control) look up how to static time a engine and that should get you pretty close. or get a vacuum gauge on the manifold port and adjust to maximum vacuum.that is if you actually any vacuum.hey make sure your dist isn't one of those older mechanical types it may have been changed along with the carb. (delco 629 H is the only one that will work with your dist mounting bracket.that is what made me think your dist was correct because the mounting hardware looks right. there was a guy selling new repo choke and throttle cables in plymouth club bulletin . I brazed new cable wire to my orig. knobs and slid new cable housing on. lack of a dist vacuum control wont cause it to run poorly but a dist with out the centrifugal weights and springs working properly would not let timing advance at all.the 29 plymouth was just cable operated with a different mounting bracket you had to advance it your self as you drove. the PB cars where the same as PA but improved bracket and vacuum control and mounting design and dist housing is cut a little differently to accommodate new bracket design. vac control is only accuated when throttle plate is closed.to retard timing with foot off accellerator. Edited December 10, 2019 by JamesLay mistake (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) So should I static time with the distributor mounted snug or leave the advancement bolt loose? And I am guessing that when I rotated the distributor clock wise within the advancement parameter I actually retarded it some and if I instead move it counter clock wise I would be advancing it? Starting was not difficult at all in the way i have it. Car just seemed weak. I have a vac gauge on the way. Edited December 9, 2019 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, ArticiferTom said: Pic of backside of 209s pointing to port . Yep, this is surely not the carb I have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) This is POSSIBLY SIMILAR to what you need, I believe.... Edited December 9, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 a list price of 20 bucks? I'll take 5 ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 Like this ? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1930-s-Carter-Carburetor-DRT-08-Updraft-Dodge-Nash-Mopar-NOS-Flawless/274005749569?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D4a0aa229987c47a89d42e9d1f0902bb0%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D233313193975%26itm%3D274005749569%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32plywood Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 the one pictured in the box is correct 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 I have a feeling this will be a long hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLay Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 brooklyn beer, you can give me a phone call tonight between 6-8 mountain . i think this might take more words than i would like to type. 605-343-3004 james 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 This little broken down carb is not working too bad except for the "no top end power" problem. Distributor with plugged vac advance as well. I had to do the big shuffle today and move cars around so I could get the PA into the small part of the heated garage and get the bigger side open so I can do the conversion to a dual master on my 63 Dodge which is land yacht in length. Had crappy weather most of the day with sleet, rain and cold. Was 35 in the big barn where I had the PA. Yanked out the choke and she fired over on the 3rd turn and didn't stall as I gradually fed her some throttle and less choke. I found that impressive for a car running a screwed up carb and timed by ear. Some vibration at idle . Ran so good I went past the turn into the small garage and off we went for a 4 mile run. The fresh gas and Berrymanns seems to be helping but just a tad too much marvel mystery in the gas. Easy to spot the exhaust leak that way. She did make up the long 1/2 mile hill in 3rd today as well. But when getting near 40 she just seems to fall flat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Maybe your expecting to much from it . That sound like my Pa engine in my'31 truck . Both the 209s on DRT platform and the 228 s on a the smaller DRJH cores had same main jets . Neither had accel pumps that they claim did anything much . Was actually eliminated on 228s . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Expect shaking from that engine. That is why they call it "Floating Power" so the engine will shake and is insulated from shaking the rest of the car with rubber mounts. Every 1930 and 1931 Plymouth four I have driven was a shaker. Edited December 11, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, ArticiferTom said: Maybe your expecting to much from it . That sound like my Pa engine in my'31 truck . Both the 209s on DRT platform and the 228 s on a the smaller DRJH cores had same main jets . Neither had accel pumps that they claim did anything much . Was actually eliminated on 228s . You could be right. I have become accustomed to what a 31 Franklin can do. Maybe it is just me. There is no shake once your above idle. I am going to drive her a couple more 8 mile runs before starting the needed work to see if i can get good gas to keep clearing things up. Have a couple leads on the correct carb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Want to thank Rand Broadstreet and Vintage Carburetor LTD for coming through big time with an excellent DRT-08 209s at a more then fair price. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) I really did not understand how tough of a carb this is to find until all the fine folks here started steering me in the right direction and away from the wrong carb I have now that needs a total rebuild. My welcome to the world of early Plymouths ! I thought it was going to be a long haul trying to find one as they were such a short lived design and that I would have to settle for a 5 times hand-me-down that would need more then a rebuild. Well what he was able to pull out of the shop and knock the dust off floored me and I just could not pass up this work of art. Edited December 13, 2019 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 15, 2019 Author Share Posted December 15, 2019 So took the opportunity of near 70 degree weather today and finished sorting out the electric. Have dash lights now and tracked down the brake light issue. Both running lights. So now that is working. Had power happening everywhere it was supposed to except the "new" bulb someone had installed they had filed off the contacts to make it fit in the socket. They filed off to much. So I took a new bulb and did the same filing but just a little at a time so the brake side contact was a little longer to fit the little extra wear on that contact. Tail light contact was sticking out where the brake contact was not. Both sides needed filed some to fit in the push and twist socket depth. Victory ! I hate old car wiring. Gives me a headache. Did find some dash lights in LED so super bright. Now to the dome light. How does that cover pop off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 I believe it just pulls straight down and off of the base. It has clips inside the hold it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 15, 2019 Author Share Posted December 15, 2019 The dome light switch is shot and I see no way to take it apart. Looks to be one piece contained with the dome insert itself. Anyone making repo's? Quite an odd switch and dome light unit all in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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