Brooklyn Beer

1932 (31) PA got here, and the sorting out BEGINS

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So what will you need to see to determine if I have the proper distributor and can just plug the vacuum advance at this time ?

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

the BB1 carbs are alot easier to find and cheaper than drt-08 with vac fitting. but you will have the breather issues and the throat of bb1 carb is bigger accullay desinged for the three bolt manifolds. three bolt manifolds where used mostly on PB engines with the larger intake valves.PB increased horse power package inclued larger intake valves,larger intake ports larger carb. different breather.your correct breather is about impossable to find and if you do will cost way more than the right carb that is possible to find .i would look for the DRT-08 just because you have the breather.as i said the BB1  will fit your two bolt manifold and is a better (improved) carb.that you see on alot of PA's  . carb mounting holes on two bolt intake manifold would have to be elongated slightly for BB1 to fit. also the manifolds can be tricky to fit and seal but of corse very important to get right first.

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your dist. looks to be correct .629H is the right  number for PA engine. plug the vac line on the intake manifold that one is for your wiper motor.if that incorrect vac control is leaking that could be why shes not running well right now.  if it is  working it is just pulling you to retard.( not based on acceleration.) the correct vac control is pretty much impossable to find. i rigged up a period correct chevy vac control. the vac control as i said pulls the whole dist about 1/2 inch clock wise only in low rpm. the spring in the vac control pushes dist back. the dist should move freely in the mounting braket slot. the clamp screw on mounting braket is loosened to set timimg. also that leaking exhaust manifold can burn a valve long term.by the way i ment to say nice looking car.  

Edited by JamesLay
mistake (see edit history)

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OK, here is the carb that is in there.  RJH 08.   Dead wrong there. 

 

I do not think the vac control is working anyway as removing the vacuum from it did nothing. So I turned the distributor clock-wise within the parameters of the hold down and tightened it down so the distributor would not move. Pulled choke out and it started much, MUCH easier and went to an idle faster.  I ran around and increased the idle a little bit as it was needed. It seems to run pretty good (Except of course the major exhaust leak at the flange itself.  It  doesn't stumble giving it gas but still feels like it is still lacking power.  The temps actually came down as well. (60 here right now and I think no thermostat in it as it stayed around 155-160) Took it for a run down the 1 mile hill I live on (freewheeling works) and back up and I didn't have to downshift to second to get back up. It is a pretty good hill and sure was a test for it.  I am going to call this a minor victory and now move it down to the lower garage to do the manifold gaskets and move the Franklin up the hill to the lift to change out the gear oils.  I do have a vid of it running after I did these too it but too large to load here if you'd like to hear it and see it my email is chrisgiddyup06@aol.com

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Many different Carter carburetors of the type RJH-08, one of which is the 1928 Plymouth (which is a smaller engine, so the engine would be down on power).

 

This is also true of the DRT-08.

 

These are types, just like a Rochester quadrajet is a type (more modern) of carburetor; NOT a positive identification.

 

The 1931 Plymouth PA would have originally used a type DRT-08, tag number 209s. Good luck on finding a tagged 1931, as the tags were made from red cardboard. Carter quickly found out the cardboard tags were not overly durable, so in the mid-1930's Carter changed to a brass tag. One occasionally finds a 209s brass tagged carb with a service date (same carb, just made as a service unit after production).

 

These do not grow on trees, and service parts, other than fuel valve and gaskets, can get rather pricey.

 

Jon.

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finally someone understands that the vacuum unit on a PA/PB   --  turns the distributor and retards the spark some  I don't think that has ever been stated here  before ---- Thanks

6 hours ago, JamesLay said:

you should take every thing off, get your manifolds sealing. find a carb that will work with vacuum spark control. DRT-08 209 S. 1929 30 cars used cable control spark advance.the carter BB1 will work but your air cleaner will have to be cobbled to fit angled carb inlet.that vacuum line to the dist.should be removed for now you cant have constant vacuum at dist spark control.the right dist. will have weights and springs below point plate that advance the timing based on RPM's then the vacuum spark control pulls the whole dist. to retard timing a little bit at very low RPM. if you don't have vac control hooked up on a good running engine you wont miss it much the centrifical advance weights in the dist. do all of the work advancing the timing.the vacuum unit kind of relaxes the motor a little at low rpm .( reduce bearing load ,smoother shifting).

 

I think this is good info.  Allan

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So then let me ask if I did the right thing by turning the distributor in the clockwise direction within the allowable moveable area that would be dictated by the vac control?  Or should I have turned in counter clockwise?

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I believe it is ccw . As this cw  makes easier to start , Hence used when hand cranking . That being said it is all relevant to how car's distr. was tuned to start .

Edited by ArticiferTom
cw -also (see edit history)

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okay, there are a couple of things going on with timing adjustment.the long screw going through dist. bracket (horizontal) is what you loosen to turn the dist inside the bracket.the screw that is in the slot that screws into the engine should be shoulder type screw.it should not tighten the dist bracket to timing cover of engine. that is your vac control movement.if your vac control is not connected you shouldn't need to do any thing with it for now.dist and bracket move together back and forth about 1/2 inch with in slot every time you accelerate from idle. ( with a working vac control) look up how to static time a engine and that should get you pretty close. or get a vacuum gauge on the manifold port and adjust to maximum vacuum.that is if you actually any vacuum.hey make sure your dist isn't one of those older mechanical  types it may have been changed along with the carb.   (delco 629 H is the only one that will work with your dist mounting bracket.that is what made me think your dist was correct because the mounting hardware looks right. there was a guy selling new repo choke and throttle cables in plymouth club bulletin . I brazed new cable wire to my orig. knobs and slid new cable housing on. lack of a dist vacuum control wont cause it to run poorly but a dist with out the centrifugal weights and springs working properly would not let timing advance at all.the 29 plymouth was just cable operated with a different mounting bracket you had to advance it your self as you drove. the PB cars where the same as PA but improved bracket and vacuum control and mounting  design and dist housing is cut a little differently  to accommodate  new bracket design. vac control is only accuated when throttle plate is closed.to retard timing with foot off accellerator.

Edited by JamesLay
mistake (see edit history)
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So should I static time with the distributor mounted snug or leave the advancement bolt loose? And I am guessing that when I rotated the distributor clock wise within the advancement parameter I actually retarded it some and if I instead move it counter clock wise I would be advancing it? Starting was not difficult at all in the way i have it. Car just seemed weak. I have a vac gauge on the way. 

Edited by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

Pic of backside of 209s pointing to port .

20191208_172015.thumb.jpg.f33aee9a8452a59fc4ba432bb63a4eed.jpg

Yep, this is surely not the carb I have

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brooklyn beer, you can give me a phone call tonight between 6-8 mountain . i think this might take more words than i would like to type. 605-343-3004     james

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This little broken down carb is not working too bad except for the "no top end power" problem. Distributor with plugged vac advance as well.  I had to do the big shuffle today and move cars around so I could get the PA into the small part of the heated garage and get the bigger side open so I can do the conversion to a dual master on my 63 Dodge which is land yacht in length. Had crappy weather most of the day with sleet, rain and cold. Was 35 in the big barn where I had the PA. Yanked out the choke and she fired over on the 3rd turn and didn't stall as I gradually fed her some throttle and less choke. I found that impressive for a car running a screwed up carb and timed by ear. Some vibration at idle . Ran so good I went past the turn into the small garage and off we went for a 4 mile run. The fresh gas and Berrymanns seems to be helping but just a tad too much marvel mystery in the gas. Easy to spot the exhaust leak that way. She did make up the long 1/2 mile hill in 3rd today as well.  But when getting near 40 she just seems to fall flat.

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Maybe your expecting to much from it . That sound like my Pa engine in my'31 truck .  Both the 209s on DRT platform and the 228 s on a the smaller DRJH cores had same main jets . Neither had accel pumps that they claim did anything much . Was actually eliminated on 228s .

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Expect shaking from that engine. That is why they call it "Floating Power" so the engine will shake and is insulated from shaking the rest of the car with rubber mounts. Every 1930 and 1931 Plymouth four I have driven was a shaker.

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
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13 minutes ago, ArticiferTom said:

Maybe your expecting to much from it . That sound like my Pa engine in my'31 truck .  Both the 209s on DRT platform and the 228 s on a the smaller DRJH cores had same main jets . Neither had accel pumps that they claim did anything much . Was actually eliminated on 228s .

 

You could be right. I have become accustomed to what a 31 Franklin can do.  Maybe it is just me.   There is no shake once your above idle.  I am going to drive her a couple more 8 mile runs before starting the needed work to see if i can get good gas to keep clearing things up.  Have a couple leads on the correct carb.

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