1934 Chevrolet DC 3-Window Coupe Preservation

[TexRiv_63]

22 hours ago, chistech said:

You can get 600W from the filling station. My nickname, “buffalo snot”!

Do you use 600 in the 34 trans and rear end?

[chistech]

3 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Do you use 600 in the 34 trans and rear end?

I did in the trans but used regular gear oil in the rear because it's a 37' with 51 gear set. It also has a vent and modern lip seals on the rear axles. The 34' normally uses felt seals on the axles and has no vent so the 600w is usually used. If you change the axle seals to modern lip seals, you must drill and tap the top of the axle tube for a vent.

[John_Mereness]

I would get an owner's manual as I really about Model A 600 oil is what is used in the differential - i could be wrong, but ...

[TexRiv_63]

I finally got back on this car yesterday. I checked the kingpins and steering linkage and everything was surprisingly tight. I put it up on the stands and removed the seat cushion, floor mat and lower floorboards to expose the clutch linkage. I will post photos later but everything I removed appeared to be totally original. Question for the experts, how do I oil the throwout bearing? Can I do from under the car or do I need to remove the toeboard?

[Bloo]

I strongly suspect you need to remove the toeboards. I did in the 36 Pontiac, and it is my understanding that many Chevrolets of the period use a very similar carbon bearing. There was a cover to remove on top of the bellhousing, and a flip top oiler on the bearing itself. IIRC it took 50 weight oil.

[TexRiv_63]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

I strongly suspect you need to remove the toeboards. I did in the 36 Pontiac, and it is my understanding that many Chevrolets of the period use a very similar carbon bearing. There was a cover to remove on top of the bellhousing, and a flip top oiler on the bearing itself. IIRC it took 50 weight oil.

The owners manual says to do this every 1000 miles - that is an awful lot of work to put in a couple drops of oil!

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, TexRiv_63 said:

The owners manual says to do this every 1000 miles - that is an awful lot of work to put in a couple drops of oil!

 

I have heard of some Chevrolets having some sort of a hose attached to the bearing? Might have been a later upgrade.

 

 

[keiser31]

53 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

I have heard of some Chevrolets having some sort of a hose attached to the bearing? Might have been a later upgrade.

 

 

Sometimes there is the hose with a twist fitting on the end. A twist of the fitting and it lubes the bearing.

[TexRiv_63]

33 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

Sometimes there is the hose with a twist fitting on the end. A twist of the fitting and it lubes the bearing.

Thanks guys, I'll get under and taka a better look.

[keiser31]

16 minutes ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Thanks guys, I'll get under and taka a better look.

It usually comes up the passenger side of the bell housing as far as the ones I have seen.

[TexRiv_63]

So the work I'm starting now is primarily to go through the clutch linkage to fix or improve the feel and engagement point of the clutch. But since I have it up on stands I'm also planning to do the following:

• Replace transmission and rear axle lube with 600W / SAE160.
• Clean and re-lubricate everything better than my initial post-purchase job.
• Refill and lubricate all the shock absorbers.
• Clean and paint all the leaf springs with oil.

Since preservation is my goal I'm also taking a lot of photos of original features like I did with my Packard. Here is the seat cushion which appears to be all original with brown mohair upholstery. This car's 68 years of storage has been luckily kind when you look at the frame, springs and burlap on the cushion bottom. While it looks lumpy it is actually quite comfortable - were these stuffed with horsehair?

[TexRiv_63]

Next I removed the floor mat to access the floorboards. It is a heavy rubber mat with fairly thick jute backing, while it had some cracks and splits it was still flexible and I was able to remove it without further damage. I was surprised to see that it appears to be the original with a Fisher Body logo and part number cast into the rubber, the jute is mostly intact and does not appear to have been exposed to much moisture. I will clean it up and reuse it as is.

[Ron of Chicago]

Outstanding purchase. I am somewhat of a purist myself and I agree with what you want to do with the mat.

Keep up the great work. Interesting thread.

Ron 

 

[Bloo]

Very Interesting. That looks a lot (but not exactly) like the repro mat Bob's Automobilia had for 36 Buicks (when they had them). The Buick mat lacked a few of the flat edges (like around the steering column and the dimmer). I agree yours is probably original.

 

That padding is natural jute too. Does the jute go all the way to the edge of the mat? it looks like it does in your last picture. I would have expected it to taper off or quit before it got to the edge, because the edge is just held down by gravity, isn't it?

 

Was there anything like a boot around your e-brake lever? Any remnants of one?

 

I am really enjoying your posts about this car. Keep it up.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

15 hours ago, Bloo said:

Very Interesting. That looks a lot (but not exactly) like the repro mat Bob's Automobilia had for 36 Buicks (when they had them). The Buick mat lacked a few of the flat edges (like around the steering column and the dimmer). I agree yours is probably original.

 

That padding is natural jute too. Does the jute go all the way to the edge of the mat? it looks like it does in your last picture. I would have expected it to taper off or quit before it got to the edge, because the edge is just held down by gravity, isn't it?

 

Was there anything like a boot around your e-brake lever? Any remnants of one?

 

I am really enjoying your posts about this car. Keep it up.

 

 

The jute goes almost all the way to the edge but it does appear to taper off about 1"-2" from the edge. The mat is held in place by four screws at the top under the dash but the rest is gravity. No boot around the brake lever, there is a rubber piece around the steering column that looks original. The PO made flat rubber weather seals that fit around the brake lever and under the steering column, they sit under the mat and are mostly invisible with the mat in place. 

[TexRiv_63]

Moving right along, I took photos of the exposed floorboards before removing them, they are about 3/4" thick plywood and they appear to be original including the attaching hardware. I am actually surprised to see the lack of any moisture damage or rot considering the Midwest and Florida ownership history. I did have to remove a battery disconnect switch added by the PO and disconnect a brake linkage spring before removal. It sure does open things up and improves access to everything!

[TexRiv_63]

Sorry to stack these posts up but I wanted to get to the main point of my car jacked up-and-floorboards-removed exercise which is repair and readjustment of the clutch linkage. To repeat some earlier posted info, I have had an issue with a very grabby clutch and the engagement of that clutch very high in the pedal travel range. I was advised to first be sure the linkage was working correctly and there appeared to be a substantially worn connection at one end of the link connecting the throwout arm to the yoke that reverses the pedal travel. With the floor open it was easy to access and remove this link and the wear was confirmed, a very egg-shaped hole that should be round. I have put the word out in numerous areas asking if anyone has a replacement link in better shape than mine, including in the Parts Wanted forum here, but I want to repeat it in this thread. To stop the obvious suggestions that I should just weld it up and redrill it, I do not have the equipment or experience to do that so would have to farm it out - which I may have to do if no parts are found. I should mention that my car has 1933 style clutch linkage as it was an early production model. I would appreciate any assistance, send a PM if you have a part that will work.

[Doozer]

A fabulous car, and really nice garage.

Please do me a favor and take out the blocks of wood propping the doors open. A small miss step, or temporary loss of balance has the potential of springing a door hinge. Maybe replace with bubble wrap! Keep up the good work, must be great fun with that treasure.

[TexRiv_63]

When I was removing the floorboards I had to disconnect the battery disconnect switch installed by the PO. It is spliced into the ground wire with new heavyweight cables but when I removed it from the battery I noticed it was connected to the negative side of the battery. At first I was worried since every other 6 volt car I have worked on has had a positive ground system. I was thinking maybe I had reversed the connections when I replaced the battery but everything seemed to work fine. I then checked the shop manual and found that a negative ground is correct for this car. Why was Chevy using negative ground when everyone else (Even my 32 Cadillac) used positive ground?

[TexRiv_63]

Not really a surprise but I have had no takers in my search for a clutch linkage bracket to replace my worn one. So I did like most suggested and had the old one repaired. Because I am without the tools and knowledge I took it to a local shop I have used a few times before, they do both restorations and hot rods, mostly the latter. After a few years of startup they have moved into larger quarters and hired a number of talented fabricators, to the point they are currently working on two custom builds for the next SEMA show. So I knew they could fix my little bracket and they did a nice quick job. I will give it a coat of paint to keep it from rusting and it will be the prettiest part on the whole car!

[TexRiv_63]

I got back to this project over the weekend, painted the repaired link and reassembled the clutch linkage. I think part of the reason that hole wore so badly is that the hairpin clip that was originally installed either wore away or broke. That kind of "cocked" the link on the pin. The link on the opposite side of the yoke still had its clip in place and showed hardly any wear. After cleaning up the bad side there was still enough of the shoulder and slot left to mount a new clip. With everything installed there is now AT LEAST one inch less freeplay in the pedal showing how much the wear affected the geometry. I still have to readjust the freeplay but I am encouraged that this will improve the feel of my clutch.

 

The other thing I did on Saturday was to lubricate the throwout bearing. Rather than a actual ball or roller bearing this car uses a fixed carbon bearing set into a cast iron base, the carbon piece contacts the rotating clutch to actuate it. To keep this piece from flaking away it needs to be oiled, the oil is absorbed by the carbon providing lubrication. This lubrication is done through a small oil cup on the top of the cast iron housing and the only way to access this cup is behind a cover plate on the back of the bellhousing, behind the toeboard. So, to get there I put the drivers floorboard back and squeezed my 71 year old self in, head against the accelerator rod, light wedged in, screwdriver in one hand and oil can in the other. After a number of tries I popped the cup lid up and was able to put a few drops of oil inside, then slowly reversed myself out - Whew! 

[Matt Harwood]

I've been told that on cars with carbon throw-out bearings that you should not depress the clutch while cranking. This was specifically in reference to early Jaguar XKs, but it would probably be the same for all such units, no? I don't know why that would be the case, but a restorer that I hold in high esteem told me that years ago. As a result, I've always started cars with carbon bearings in neutral but with my foot off the clutch.

 

I wonder if there's any reason or rhyme to it or just an old wives' tale?

[Bloo]

The 1936 Pontiac users guide suggests starting with the clutch pedal down, so GM must not have been that concerned. It reduces transmission oil drag when cranking. They may have been more concerned that someone left the car in gear and forgot. The bearing is carbon, and is oiled with a little oil cup under the cover just like what TexRiv_63 describes. You have to remove the toeboards to access the cover.

 

I start mine with the clutch pedal up, and also stand on the clutch as little as possible at stoplights. I don't know if it is an old wives tale, but the carbon does wear out, and it cant hurt to use it less.

 

As I understand it, the two grooves on the face of the carbon are wear indicators. You can see them in the last picture. TexRiv_63's bearing looks to be in good shape.

[TexRiv_63]

Thanks Matt and Bloo, never really thought about that. The throwout assembly was replaced  by the PO so it supposedly only has about 4000 miles on it.

[TexRiv_63]

So I continue to putter along, it is nice to have no real schedule for a car project and take the time required rather than rushing because it has to be on the street tomorrow. My typical car work "day" is actually about 3 to 4 hours so the last couple have been spent on lubrication. In addition to the throwout bearing mentioned previously I am oiling all the rods, pins and clevis joints of which there are many. I am very fortunate that the PO disassembled just about everything that moved, derusted it, lubricated it and replaced marginal hardware and all the cotter pins, so all I am really doing is adding a bit more oil. I also drained both the transmission and rear axle, I had put 140 GL-4 in the trans but the diff still had 85W90 sulfur stuff. My mission was to refill both with good old 600W / SAE 160 which matches the original specs. Filling the trans was easy with the floorboards out, I just used a funnel with flex end and gravity did the rest. The rear was another story, wedged up near the fuel tank and the filler hole in a slightly downward location. I attempted to use a smaller flex funnel and a small squeeze bottle but proceeded to spill the better part of a pint all over the floor and me - insert profanity barrage! Luckily I found a suction gun that I have had for awhile but never really used. It had not worked well with thinner oil but was great with monkey snot 600W, so the axle is now full. My last attempt was to fill the rear shocks with oil - another basically impossible task. I think I got some fluid in one but I spilled a lot more, any tips here would be appreciated.

[Matt Harwood]

I use little oil cans like this for filling shocks. That flexible plastic spout works well but I have one where I installed a much longer one for remote areas and it works well. Your local auto parts store should have them on the shelf. I even used one to pump cornhead grease into my steering box, which, while not ideal, did actually work... slowly.

 

[Roger Zimmermann]

When looking at that nice black tank, don't you think it was repaired or replaced recently?

[TexRiv_63]

18 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I use little oil cans like this for filling shocks. That flexible plastic spout works well but I have one where I installed a much longer one for remote areas and it works well. Your local auto parts store should have them on the shelf. I even used one to pump cornhead grease into my steering box, which, while not ideal, did actually work... slowly.

 

Thanks Matt, exactly what I need.

[TexRiv_63]

10 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

When looking at that nice black tank, don't you think it was repaired or replaced recently?

Yes the tank was replaced in 2009 when all the other rejuvenation work was done. It is a (shudder) hot rod part designed for the car and it has a bit more capacity than the original.

[Ken_P]

Where did you source your 600W/SAE 160 transmission fluid?

[TexRiv_63]

2 hours ago, Ken_P said:

Where did you source your 600W/SAE 160 transmission fluid?

From The Filling Station,  https://www.fillingstation.com/

$9.99 a quart but the shipping was expensive.

[TexRiv_63]

Did a little more work today. I did follow Matt's suggestion and bought an oil can with a flexible spout, that definitely does the trick for filling the shocks. Funny thing was, they were both already full! I put the toeboard back and adjusted the clutch freeplay - I went with 1 1/2" against a 1" spec. I plan to replace the floorboards and test drive the car then may have to adjust differently.

 

I did find something interesting, I picked up a copy of the "Chevrolet Mechanic's Repair Manual 1932-36" on Ebay and in the clutch section there was most of a page devoted to "Clutch Chatter 1933 Models". It describes a kit that changed the clutch linkage  parts and redrilled the shaft bracket holes to change the engagement leverage. Looking at the picture it turns out this exactly what I have on my car. I have no idea if this was original equipment on my early production 34 or if the kit was installed at some point. 

[chistech]

One of the things I enjoy most about working on and restoring these cars is doing model /year specific research as I came to realize just how fast the automobile was progressing. Not just year after year but in some cases just months. On my 32’ Olds on some things there was not just two but at least three running changes to the same part or assembly. Like your 33’, they were working quickly to solve a chattering clutch. I’m sure there’s many more things you’ll find that were changed or improved on your car as the model year progressed. Back then the manufacturer wanted to improve on any deficiencies as soon as they realized it was there. Today,  they’re afraid to admit any issues because the public is so sue happy. And when we have a judicial system that allows someone who buys a hot coffee to sue, and win for it being hot, you can’t blame them.

Edited May 16, 2020 by chistech (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

Yesterday I put the floorboards back in, reconnected the battery, lowered the car and took it for a ride. Success! The clutch feels much smoother and the engagement point is more in the middle of the travel range. It's not perfect, a bit grabby, but then I have no idea what "perfect" is on this car so I am happy. I still have to put the floor mat back but my next chore is wirebrushing the leaf springs and painting them with oil. I have been told to do this with the wheels hanging, can any experts tell me where to safely jack up the car on the frame rails? I do not want to tweak anything.

[keiser31]

I would set the jack and stands directly under the spring shackle location.

[TexRiv_63]

On 4/21/2020 at 2:25 PM, TexRiv_63 said:

When I was removing the floorboards I had to disconnect the battery disconnect switch installed by the PO. It is spliced into the ground wire with new heavyweight cables but when I removed it from the battery I noticed it was connected to the negative side of the battery. At first I was worried since every other 6 volt car I have worked on has had a positive ground system. I was thinking maybe I had reversed the connections when I replaced the battery but everything seemed to work fine. I then checked the shop manual and found that a negative ground is correct for this car. Why was Chevy using negative ground when everyone else (Even my 32 Cadillac) used positive ground?

I posted this back in April but got no response - Why was Chevy using a negative ground system when most everyone else was using positive ground?

[Bloo]

Because it doesn't matter I guess? Most, maybe all GM cars (except Cadillac) were negative ground.

[Roger Zimmermann]

15 minutes ago, TexRiv_63 said:

I posted this back in April but got no response - Why was Chevy using a negative ground system when most everyone else was using positive ground?

Probably because nobody knows! It would be interesting to know if European cars at that time had positive or negative ground...

[JamesR]

On 5/7/2020 at 4:54 PM, TexRiv_63 said:

 

 

 

 

I'm still loving your beautiful old Chevy, Tex Riv 63! Requesting your advice on "preservation" school of thought (and anyone else who wishes to contribute ideas):

 

My '61 Mercury is a preservation vehicle, too - all original paint, interior and original non-rebuilt engine with 55k miles. Replacement radial tires. shocks, generator, booster/mc, hoses and other newer parts, but I'd call it a 98% original vehicle. Everything looks in fairly good shape, but the underside is generally in the condition of your Chevy: solid, but with a coating of surface rust. Are you going to make an effort to keep that surface rust at bay (but without refinishing), or are you going to leave it as is and just keep the car out of the elements?

 

I never drive my car in the rain intentionally, but on rare occasions I may get caught in a sudden storm. The surface rust underneath on the Mercury was most conspicuous on the underside of the wheel wells (inner fenders.) At someone's advice, I sprayed on Fluid Film, which is designed to keep corrosion off a surface without painting. It's oily, so I thought it might be better on an existing rusty surface than the drier more waxy products that would trap the rust but not have the corrosion retardant properties that oil does. I do kind of worry about the oil getting on the tires and deteriorating the rubber, though. Also worried about the oil attracting road dirt and dust. Your thoughts?

[Matt Harwood]

Positive ground is how science does it. Negative ground is just an automotive thing. The story I heard is that at some point GM started doing negative ground and since they were the biggest, everyone else followed suit. Whether that's true, I can't say. I will say that my '35 Lincoln is negative ground while all the other Ford cars were positive ground, which seems strange. My '29 Cadillac is also negative ground, as is the '41 Buick, so GM was doing negative ground for quite a while before everyone else joined them.