1934 Chevrolet DC 3-Window Coupe Preservation

[Doozer]

“I'm still loving your beautiful old Chevy, Tex Riv 63! Requesting your advice on "preservation" school of thought (andanyone else who wishes to contribute ideas”

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also have a car with an undercarriage in similar condition, that I want to preserve. I’m thinking about using a shop vac with a stiff brush attachment to remove most of the “rust dust”, then applying boiled linseed oil, cut with odorless mineral spirits or turpentine. I could apply by brush, rag, spray bottle or combination of all. Just thinking out loud.  I’m looking for the voices of experience and sense to chime in.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Doozer (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

James R and Doozer, thanks for your comments about preservation. I am kind of in the same boat as you as far as exactly what - or if - to deal with the rusty areas. On my 34 almost all of the patina is totally real and a product of 86 years of existence and 68 years of storage. The only exceptions are the repainted wheels, substitute '35 gauge cluster, and the exhaust system - the PO even sprayed the replacement tailpipe with salt water to age it in the visible area - you can see it in the above photo. The car will never be out in rain while I have it and its honest appearance is one of the main reasons I bought it. I doubt I will do anything under the car with the exception of wirebrushing the leaf springs and painting them with oil. I have thought about all the surface fender rust on the outside and may look into some type of rust converter but I do not want to repaint. I would also be interested in other's experiences in this area.

[John_Mereness]

37 minutes ago, TexRiv_63 said:

 I doubt I will do anything under the car with the exception of wirebrushing the leaf springs and painting them with oil. 

You would best be served by wire brushing springs and then painting the non-wear surfaces with primer & black paint - and then oiling the springs thereafter.   If you take them apart you want metal to metal contact between the leaves with no paint on "touching surfaces."  And you want the non meshing surfaces protected from rust.  I would suggest Rustolium rusty metal/rust converter paint and then rustolium automotive gloss black (of flat black) in a rattle can (cover the car to protect from overspray). 

[TexRiv_63]

20 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

You would best be served by wire brushing springs and then painting the non-wear surfaces with primer & black paint - and then oiling the springs thereafter.   If you take them apart you want metal to metal contact between the leaves with no paint on "touching surfaces."  And you want the non meshing surfaces protected from rust.  I would suggest Rustolium rusty metal/rust converter paint and then rustolium automotive gloss black (of flat black) in a rattle can (cover the car to protect from overspray). 

Thanks John, if I paint the springs then I'll have to paint everything else, and as I explained above that's not going to happen.

[John_Mereness]

47 minutes ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Thanks John, if I paint the springs then I'll have to paint everything else, and as I explained above that's not going to happen.

I get it, though the oil attracts dirt and ... so you always want to be moving forward than have car take a step back and something get worse over time.   That is what flat black paint is for (just like your gas tank).

[MichiDan56]

This post takes me down memory lane - a neighbor when I was a kid in the 60's had a '35 Chevy coupe that looked very much like this one, same colors even.  Neighbor is gone and I have no idea whether the car stayed in the family or not.

[TexRiv_63]

I worked the last two days to finish up the undercar items still on my maintenance list. Girded with a double dose of Ibuprofen I jacked it up, put safety stands at the inboard spring perch locations and let the axles hang down to open the spring leaves. This worked fine in the front but the long rear springs hung way down and I had to jack the axle up a bit to avoid straining the shock links. After spreading lots of newspaper I wirebrushed and wiped down the springs, surprisingly what I had pegged as heavy rust was actually old hardened grease, the spring leaves were actually quite rust free. I painted all the sides and leaf ends liberally with 30 weight, then while it was dripping off I used the jack to move the axles up and down to work the oil in. 

 

I re-lubricated all the front end joints, when I tried this the first time it did not work, I found the problem was a worn out coupler on my grease gun. With a new coupler it worked great this time. I refilled the front shocks and was confronted with an amusing (?) example of my stupidity. Removing the small square head bolt at the top filler point, I realized that when I tried to fill the rear shocks I had removed one of the cover plate screws instead! So after I cleaned up all the mess from the spring painting I revisited the rear shocks and found the correct filler plugs. Good thing I did as they were both down quite a bit on fluid. I did not get time to drive it yet but I hope to see some improvement in the ride.

 

My next chore is to replace the floor mat - any suggestions on a good way to clean up the old rubber without damaging it? I'm also going to try adding some thin aluminum faced insulation under the mat if it will work without raising the mat too much.

[TexRiv_63]

Kept on working today, I'm on a roll! Even though the original floor mat on this car is pretty well insulated with a thick jute pad I thought adding a bit more might be good. My main concern was heat infiltration since the floorboards and toeboard are pretty thin and the exhaust pipe goes right under the drivers side. I pulled out an old roll of double sided quilted aluminum faced information that had worked pretty well on a couple other past cars. The material is 16" wide and a little less than 1/4" thick with one pinched and tapered side. As soon as I rolled it out I knew it would work, I put a piece on each side with some minor trimming around the brake lever and dimmer switch and held them in place with some duct tape.

[TexRiv_63]

After adding the insulation I cleaned up the old original floor mat. I used some Mr. Clean in hot water, a scrub brush, toothbrush and lots of elbow grease and rags, it actually cleaned up pretty well. Not easy getting that up and over the shift lever but I got it in and situated with no additional damage, it lays down quite well over the aluminum. I put all the tools away and dusted off the car then I took it for a ride this morning. The suspension feel is definitely improved, still stiff but less bouncy and a more dampened feel probably due to filling up the shocks. Of course driving this car is a new experience for me anyway due to its tiny size and short wheelbase, quite a change from a 34 Packard! With the floor coverings in place it is also noticeably quieter especially the gear whine from the transmission. It's nice to be done with a checklist and actually have it all work out.

[keiser31]

What is the red handle on the floor?

[Gary W]

Maybe a master electric "kill" switch?  I mounted mine there as well.  

[John_Mereness]

If you ever need to make a new floormat for any reason, the fellow who reproduces the Auburn floor mats makes them like this:

1. Two approx 1/6" sheets of rubber cut to the size of the floor mat area

2. One mat serves as the backing

3. The second mat has all "what would be ribbed area" cut out and serves to provide all the flat area

4. Ribbed rubber inserts are cut

5. In your case the original Fisher emblem could be cut out and installed

6. Everything is all glued together

7. Add felt to backside

 

[TexRiv_63]

7 hours ago, Gary W said:

Maybe a master electric "kill" switch?  I mounted mine there as well.  

That is correct, the red key is removeable for security. You can see it better in this photo, the PO spliced it into the ground circuit with nicely made heavy cables, unfortunately with modern plastic finish.

[TexRiv_63]

I have mentioned that this car is mostly an original car but I forgot to include one big item that is new - all the window glass. I asked the selling dealer why it had been replaced and he pointed out at least eight small sharp dents in the passenger side sheetmetal that appear to be bullet strikes but not bullet holes. Why no holes? I found out that during the car's barn storage from 1952 to 1975 someone had used the barn for a lot of target practice. The bullets had apparently gone through the barn wood and hit the car but their velocity had been slowed enough that they ricocheted rather than penetrated. The glass, however was not so lucky and had to be replaced. The strike dents indicate good sized bullets and the pattern on the hood and A-pillar is tight and progressive so I am assuming they are from a Thompson submachine gun. I have absolutely no proof of this but that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[TAKerry]

Great Looking car! We had a '35 chevy pickup at one time. You need to update the story on the bullet holes though🙂 Bank robbery, prison break, etc.

[Gary W]

I would love to hear the back story of the bullet holes!  I got my Buick with decal bullet holes all over it!  Glass, valve cover, all over the body....  You got the REAL THING!!

 

 

Love your car!  Beautiful lines and great write up.  Enjoy following your progress

 

 

Gary

[TexRiv_63]

Since finishing my checklist I have been driving this car more as (HOT) weather permits. I am expanding the length of my drives each time as I get more used to the car. The first couple of times the ride was noticeably smoother and better controlled but it had some very distracting rattles and clunks. I checked all around to make sure nothing was loose then looked behind the seat - I had left my small emergency tool kit with it's metal box on the package shelf right behind my right ear!  Well that went in the trunk and now it rides pretty quietly. I have been checking the temp gauge religiously in the summer heat, it cruises at 180-185, goes up to 200-205 at a light but then comes back down when underway again and no signs of overheating when I shut it off, so that seems good to me. Interestingly, the Standard model did not come with any temp gauge, mine is a modern add-on. I guess you just waited for the steam to start shooting out...

[TexRiv_63]

Everything has been going well with this car but now I may have my first issue. With Texas summer in full swing I have been taking it out for a weekly ride early on Sunday mornings when it is comparatively cool and there is very little traffic. I did this yesterday, it started right up and ran fine but I noticed the ammeter was not indicating a charge when underway. Previously it indicated over 10 amps positive with the engine revved up and cruising but now it stays at zero driving and drops slightly negative idling. I cut the drive short and put it back in the garage. My first plan is to check all of the connections and charge the battery and consult the shop manual but if anyone has any tips that would help.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Usually, with a good battery, there is no charge during a drive after the used juice for starting the engine is back into the battery. A small discharge at idle is normal, the generator is not supplying enough voltage in this condition.

What you had before, a 10 A charging curent during a cruise would indicate a battery in a not too good condition. I could be wrong; it would not be the first time!

Your shop manual is certainly describing what you should have as an output at the generator.

[TexRiv_63]

On 8/10/2020 at 11:49 AM, Roger Zimmermann said:

Usually, with a good battery, there is no charge during a drive after the used juice for starting the engine is back into the battery. A small discharge at idle is normal, the generator is not supplying enough voltage in this condition.

What you had before, a 10 A charging curent during a cruise would indicate a battery in a not too good condition. I could be wrong; it would not be the first time!

Your shop manual is certainly describing what you should have as an output at the generator.

Thanks Roger, that all sounds right. I have been researching this on the VCCA forum and found a lot of info. I will be doing more testing and will report what I find.

[Bloo]

As early as that is, it is a third brush generator with a cutout. There is no voltage regulator. The current regulation is set with the position of the third brush. It is a fairly limited system, and does not back down when the battery is full, it attempts to charge at the current it is set at no matter what. It is limited in this goal by the fact that it is only capable of maximum charge at one particular engine speed. Slower or faster and it does less.

 

These were set back in the day by checking the battery with a hydrometer after a few days driving, and turning the charge rate up or down as necessary. Driving habits mattered a lot. Night driving mattered a lot. It more or less amounted to setting things up so the battery would be full when the owner shut the car off for the day.

 

A car normally used for commuting with short trips and a bit of headlight use would definitely need the rate reset for a long highway trip in the daytime, or it would boil the battery.

 

Some 30s Chevys have a resistor in the generator field circuit that gets shorted out when you turn the headlights on, turning up the charge rate to offset the headlight draw. That helps a lot. There will also be a "half click" on the headlight switch that allows the driver to turn on the higher charge rate without the lights if he knows his battery is low. It is very useful if you know it's there. It may not be there on a 34 Standard, but you could check.

[keithb7]

Thanks for that explanation on the 3rd brush generator. It’s clearer to me now, the way you explained it. Quite an improvement when regulators were brought in to use. The manual adjustment process seems to be high maintenance depending on your driving habits.
 

I can imagine a person might find themselves on an unplanned night time trip in cool weather with the heat on.  Before you leave, you set the 3rd brush. Hopefully you get it right and can complete the trip! 
 

Some simple generator work I can recommend: polarize the field windings and try driving again. Maybe start and stop the engine a few times before you go for a drive. Get the battery voltage down. Then see what the ammeter shows when you go for a drive. 
 

A clamp style digital multimeter with DC amps setting is handy. You can clamp the wire off the generator and see what the actual amp output is. You can work the throttle by hand. Rev up the engine and see if the amp output ramps up. It should if the battery needs topping up. 
 

Another tip I have done is wire up a  digital multimeter to the battery only. Measure voltage. If you run longer wire leads you can sit the multimeter on the seat beside you. Then voltage should rise as you drive, showing that the generator is charging. 
 

These are some basic things to do. However offer pretty good clues as to what is going on with your charging system. 
 

 

[TexRiv_63]

Thanks for the tips. I did a little more checking today. All connections were clean and tight, the cutout appears to be an older Niehoff replacement but inside it looks new with freely operating points. The battery, which I just charged, read 6.36 volts. I polarized the generator with the key off, a jumper wire between the battery and generator cutout terminals and I did get a spark. I then started the engine, the ammeter registered a small discharge which did not change as I increased the rpm. I pulled out the light switch to the first notch and the discharge increased to maybe 8, then I pulled it all the way turning on the headlights and it showed a discharge of almost 20 amps. These discharges did not change when I increased rpm. I then had my wife operate the accelerator and I measured current at the battery. It showed 6.23 volts at idle and did not change with increased rpm.  That was all I could do in today's 100 degree heat but my next step will be to file the cutout points a bit then drive the car around to see if anything changes. Even with a charged battery it seems wrong to me that the generator would not kick in when the lights were turned on to create a massive discharge. 

[Bloo]

On 8/11/2020 at 4:22 PM, keithb7 said:

 

I can imagine a person might find themselves on an unplanned night time trip in cool weather with the heat on.  Before you leave, you set the 3rd brush. Hopefully you get it right and can complete the trip! 

 

Those probably got adjusted less than I might have implied. Things were much better with Chevrolet's light switch kludge, and even better yet when a voltage regulator was added to the third brush generator, as done in Buick, Pontiac Graham and some others in the mid 30s. With a voltage regulator, the third brush is factory set to the most the generator can take (still not very much), and is not adjustable. The voltage regulator takes care of things just like it would on a modern system.

 

In the early 30s ("A" Fords etc. with no voltage regulator or headlight kludge), I don't think there was any expectation that you could drive forever at night without running out of battery. If the generator was set high enough for that it would boil the battery terribly during normal driving.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Bloo]

18 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Even with a charged battery it seems wrong to me that the generator would not kick in when the lights were turned on to create a massive discharge. 

 

On a cutout system the only thing that causes it to kick in is when it tries to charge. It should have kicked in when it got up above idle no matter what. Current flows in a charging system from the highest voltage point in the system. When the generator is charging or at least keeping up, the highest voltage is at the generator. When the generator is not charging, the highest voltage is at the battery.

 

The cutout just disconnects the generator when it is not charging so the battery will not try to run the generator like a motor, discharging the battery and probably frying the generator.

 

When the generator gets turning fast enough to start charging, the cutout should see voltage at the generator and pull in, period. It won't know about the headlights or care. Whether it keeps up with them or not is another matter.

 

What is the cutout actually connected to? Do you have a picture of the other side?

 

The generator's armature terminal should connect to one side of the cutout, and the other side should go to the car's electrical system, probably the ammeter. It looks like one side of the cutout is not connected to anything?

 

I see you have a ground on the generator case (good).

 

If you have the headlight kludge with a resistor and contact on the headlight switch, then there will be a terminal for that. An open circuit in that system would cause it not to charge. Is that an extra terminal I am seeing at the right in the first two pics?

 

More pictures would probably help.

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

On 8/13/2020 at 12:44 PM, Bloo said:

 

On a cutout system the only thing that causes it to kick in is when it tries to charge. It should have kicked in when it got up above idle no matter what. Current flows in a charging system from the highest voltage point in the system. When the generator is charging or at least keeping up, the highest voltage is at the generator. When the generator is not charging, the highest voltage is at the battery.

 

The cutout just disconnects the generator when it is not charging so the battery will not try to run the generator like a motor, discharging the battery and probably frying the generator.

 

When the generator gets turning fast enough to start charging, the cutout should see voltage at the generator and pull in, period. It won't know about the headlights or care. Whether it keeps up with them or not is another matter.

 

What is the cutout actually connected to? Do you have a picture of the other side?

 

The generator's armature terminal should connect to one side of the cutout, and the other side should go to the car's electrical system, probably the ammeter. It looks like one side of the cutout is not connected to anything?

 

I see you have a ground on the generator case (good).

 

If you have the headlight kludge with a resistor and contact on the headlight switch, then there will be a terminal for that. An open circuit in that system would cause it not to charge. Is that an extra terminal I am seeing at the right in the first two pics?

 

More pictures would probably help.

 

 

 

Thanks for the explanation of the cutout operation, it sounds like you agree the ammeter should have shown some charge when I revved it up. The cutout is connected properly as shown better in this photo, the GEN terminal is connected to the armature wire and the BATT terminal to what I assume is the ammeter wire. All connections are tight and as I said this was all working properly until a week ago. Not sure what you call a "kludge" is. The generator on the Master model had a fixed third brush and the ground connection went to a resistor on the light switch rather than the generator body that apparently acted as a primitive regulator. My Standard model does not have that.

[Bloo]

The kludge (it's actually brilliant) is the resistor and the headlight switch wiring. I was wondering if it is master only. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Looks like your field wire is grounded. The generator should have tried no matter what. I guess the cutout could be burned out but that hardly ever happens. Most likely it is a generator problem.

 

I would pull the dust strap of of it and have a look at the brushes. Maybe they are just stuck in their holders or maybe the commutator is just dirty. If it is out of brush length, you should be able to see that too.

 

Might as well give the oil cups a little oil while you are at it.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

17 hours ago, Bloo said:

The kludge (it's actually brilliant) is the resistor and the headlight switch wiring. I was wondering if it is master only. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Looks like your field wire is grounded. The generator should have tried no matter what. I guess the cutout could be burned out but that hardly ever happens. Most likely it is a generator problem.

 

I would pull the dust strap of of it and have a look at the brushes. Maybe they are just stuck in their holders or maybe the commutator is just dirty. If it is out of brush length, you should be able to see that too.

 

Might as well give the oil cups a little oil while you are at it.

 

 

 

Thanks. I oiled the cups when I first got the car. How does the brush cover come off, is it screwed in place? Can't see anything from the top and haven't gotten under just yet. I'm going to lightly file the cutout points today and take the car for a short ride tomorrow morning.

[Bloo]

I was expecting that it wraps around on top of itself and snaps with a clip. Maybe underneath? Or maybe a screw and it tightens like a hose clamp?

 

 

 

[TexRiv_63]

23 hours ago, Bloo said:

I was expecting that it wraps around on top of itself and snaps with a clip. Maybe underneath? Or maybe a screw and it tightens like a hose clamp?

 

 

 

That might be the case but on mine that is on the bottom right where the draft tube support is so I cant see or feel it. I cleaned and sanded the cutout contacts and took the car for a ride this morning with no change so I will be loosening it up anyway to look. I also noticed that I have a nice new-looking fan belt but the generator is at the end of it's adjustment and the belt is a bit loose so I think I need a shorter belt. Anyone know a good website to compare Gates belt sizes?

[Ken_P]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:54 PM, TexRiv_63 said:

That might be the case but on mine that is on the bottom right where the draft tube support is so I cant see or feel it. I cleaned and sanded the cutout contacts and took the car for a ride this morning with no change so I will be loosening it up anyway to look. I also noticed that I have a nice new-looking fan belt but the generator is at the end of it's adjustment and the belt is a bit loose so I think I need a shorter belt. Anyone know a good website to compare Gates belt sizes?

 

While you can't compare sizes, vbeltsupply.com has a ton of vintage sizes, and you can buy by size. The site walks you though how to order everything (what cross-section, etc) and they're cheap. Kudos to Matt Harwood for pointing me to the site.

[TexRiv_63]

Haven't posted here in awhile since I started my electrical thread in the Technical forum. My generator issues and the hot weather kept me in for awhile but the beautiful sudden fall weather has me back out driving. I had two friends over Saturday for a front porch social distance breakfast and to give them their first rides in this car. Probably went 10 to 12 miles and the car performed great. I was particularly interested in the thoughts of one guy who has two Model A Fords as to the feel of the Chevy. He said the Chevy ride is much smoother and he was impressed with the lack of squeaks and rattles from the wood framed body. He also said it was roomier inside and he was surprised at the lack of gear noise from second gear. I have never driven a Model A so he will bring his over so we can compare. He took a short drive-by video as I was putting the car away, enjoy.

 

[JamesR]

Love the video! It seems to run smooth, and I didn't see any smoke at all. The number of 1930's Chevy and Ford coupes that haven't been made into hot rods has to be very low.

[Michael Branstetter]

Have two 34 Master 5 window coupes. Enjoyed reading over your project, nice original car. 

[MikaH]

On 11/17/2019 at 9:25 PM, TexRiv_63 said:

Thanks for the kingpin advice, I will check them out this week.

Let me back up now and start telling you what I have done so far. First I'll share a YouTube video of the car coming off the trailer the day I received it:

 

 https://youtu.be/z4vnNpJCv1o

 

I took my 63 Starfire to its new storage garage home the same day and got the Chevy situated in the garage. Wow, it is so small! I haven't had a car this tiny in very many years, it makes it easy to work all around it even with the other two cars in the garage. A couple days later I unpacked a very large parts cache that was included with the car which filled the entire trunk to the brim plus a spare steering gear, column and wheel inside the car. As mentioned, the PO had bought a bunch of 35 parts left over from a hot rod project, the only items he put on the 34 were the wheels and gauges. The cache includes all the original 34 wheels, brake parts, window regulators, splash pans, engine parts, kingpins, shock absorbers, 5 carburetors, and more. I quickly moved it into a corner of the garage but still need to sort and catalog it.

 

You wouldn't happen to have any of these parts left and willing to sell? My project has stalled due to missing brake parts + a few others.

 

[TexRiv_63]

4 hours ago, MikaH said:

 

You wouldn't happen to have any of these parts left and willing to sell? My project has stalled due to missing brake parts + a few others.

 

Sorry, nothing for sale at this time. Check the Parts for Sale forum, there is a person there selling lots of 33-34 Standard parts.

[AURktman]

On 6/8/2020 at 3:05 PM, TexRiv_63 said:

I have mentioned that this car is mostly an original car but I forgot to include one big item that is new - all the window glass. I asked the selling dealer why it had been replaced and he pointed out at least eight small sharp dents in the passenger side sheetmetal that appear to be bullet strikes but not bullet holes. Why no holes? I found out that during the car's barn storage from 1952 to 1975 someone had used the barn for a lot of target practice. The bullets had apparently gone through the barn wood and hit the car but their velocity had been slowed enough that they ricocheted rather than penetrated. The glass, however was not so lucky and had to be replaced. The strike dents indicate good sized bullets and the pattern on the hood and A-pillar is tight and progressive so I am assuming they are from a Thompson submachine gun. I have absolutely no proof of this but that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

 

 

 

Having shot a full auto Thompson, it does remind me of the barrel rise when firing if you don't know how to shoot full auto.  Again, no clue if it is accurate, but it does remind me of that pattern.  That is a really cool "patina" feature to the car!

[TexRiv_63]

After enjoying this car for more than 18 months I made the decision to sell it in order to buy the 1960 Buick I just received. It actually sold last month and unlike almost every other hobby car I have owned I actually broke even on expenses! I had said previously that I was done with prewar car ownership but when this one popped up I could not resist and the experience was a good one all around. Thanks to all the people who encouraged and helped me with issues.