JV Puleo Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) I think it would be very nearly impossible to make the two ends match perfectly straight. Of course, I haven't seen the car in the UK and the gentleman who did it might be a brilliant welder but what you are describing would, at the very least, take an elaborate fixture to hold the two pieces in perfect alignment while being welded. If I were trying to do it with welding, I'd turn the broken end with the armature flat while holding the armature in a 4-jaw chuck and carefully indicated so that the shaft was running true. Then drill and ream a hole - maybe 1/4" or less in the center and put a sharp taper on the piece. I'd then make the extension piece, a tiny bit larger (maybe .050 or .070) drilling and tapering that. When the two pieces were pressed together, there would be a "V" groove that could be welded. Then the diameter could be turned taking a little off the surface of the extension piece which should compensate for any warpage caused by the welding. It would still be a very tricky thing to do. If necessary, the extension could be turned slightly smaller than the original piece putting a tiny shoulder in the shaft and the "V" groove pulley made with a slightly smaller diameter hole in the center. Fixing that with JB Weld is about as idiotic a repair as I've ever seen. Edited March 20, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 What @JV Puleo has outlined is a lot like a clock repivotting procedure.... except there is no welding in a clock arbor or pivot, just a spot of cyanoacrylate on the male end before it is pushed in. The clock wheels (or gears) run on arbors and the reduced size arbor ends, called pivots, run in the clock plates. When repivotting a clock arbor, one drills a hole in the original arbor a spot under half its diameter. Then turn a new end on your replacement rod of pivot steel to be a push fit into the hole. Push in with a bit of cyanoacrylate on it. Then turn the new pivot on the new piece. If you use a twist drill in a small arbor, you might break the drill - I did on my first attempt. Then I had to remove some arbor (shorten the original shaft) and replace it with my new pivot steel, then cut the pivot further along. Getting the length right took some careful measurement. My job was a 1.8 mm diameter arbor and 0.7 mm diameter pivot. I see no reason you could not use a similar procedure, as @JV Puleo says and weld it. The shaft might be case hardened though. Others might know what to do about that before you attempt to drill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Further to the issue of transmission fill level, Pierces of that period have a horizontally-split aluminum case with a hand-hole lid on top for inspecting gears and adding "liquid grease" (i.e., 600-W). The manual says to fill so that the smallest gear just dips OR no higher than the bottom of the shafts. On one occasion, I overfilled to the midpoint of the shafts, and the excess was quickly spread over my undercarriage. The manual also says to add one pint of gear oil every 1,000 miles, which is generally consistent with my experience--I inspect and top off every 500 miles. Consumption (actually, leakage) seems to be dependent on cruising speeds. I split the difference on the fill level--halfway between the smallest gear just dipping and the bottom of the shafts, This is a wonderful find, and I hope you'll have a superb time with it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 As to differential leakage and fill level, there was a thread in the forums in the last six months or so which essentially stated that felt axle seals allow "breathing" without a need for a vent in the rear axle assembly, but modern sealing devices (lip seals, O-rings) which do not breathe cause a buildup of pressure which pushes gear oil past the modern sealing devices. I agree with John Mereness that with these cars we should strive to park on level ground. Better to run the diff not quite full but check more frequently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) If the shaft is case hardened it shouldn't make much of a difference. The case will only be a skin on the surface of the shaft - maybe only about .010 thick. The center of the shaft should be soft so drilling & reaming won't be a challenge. When it comes to turning the shaft, the welding will probably have destroyed the case. That said, I've worked on a few armature shafts (albeit not always for cars) and so far none was hardened. Socket head set screws called the "Allen Safety Set Screw" were first marketed in 1910 so they aren't even anachronistic in this application. I'd also dispense with a keyway for a woodruff key on the end of the shaft and just mill a flat, then use a flat point set screw to secure the pulley. Milling the keyway is nice, but really not necessary as long as the set screw rides on a flat. The pressure developed is probably not sufficient to require a key. [edit] As a further to the above. It is very likely that the armature shaft has center holes in it. I would do the final turning on centers rather than holding the armature in a chuck. In thinking about this, I realize I did this with a very large 3-phase motor that I made new bearings for many years ago. It worked so well that the motor (which is likely close to 100 years old) has been in regular use for the last 15 years without any problems. Edited March 20, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 I wonder how long the JB Weld held. It would probably worked well so long as the generator was disconnected. Go to page 1 of this series to see the weld repair done by my friend. It's held up for some years. One of the "mods" suggested on the Overland is a vent on the gear box lid. This unit was never vented, and apparently it can pressurize and send fluids all over. Here's a photo of what he did. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 I'm about to work on the carburetor(s) to try and assemble a good one. One person commented about the crude spring which looks wrong. I discovered the reason it was installed. Note that a choke cable controls the choke. This seems logical, but I don;t think this type of wire-wrapped cable was used in 1915. The factory blueprints show the original design was a copper tube with a #22 (.048") music wire inside. Looks like I'll have to fabricate that part, also. The original Overland & Willys Knight factory blueprints for every part still exist, saved by the WOKR (Willys Overland Knight Registry) in the '70s. This is over 2 tons of materials which might otherwise have gone to the landfill. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 The brake shoes came back today, and they look a lot better with non-greasy lining! Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 On 3/20/2019 at 6:26 PM, MochetVelo said: One of the "mods" suggested on the Overland is a vent on the gear box lid. This unit was never vented, and apparently it can pressurize and send fluids all over. Here's a photo of what he did. That is a good idea to vent and you can do informally with a fine hole drilled or formally with a screened vent or ... installed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 On 3/21/2019 at 7:53 AM, MochetVelo said: The brake shoes came back today, and they look a lot better with non-greasy lining! Phil Perfect - this is the type of lining that will actually allow the car to stop ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted March 24, 2019 Author Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) The cylinders are now off the engine. I only broke off one stud from the coolant tubes (another had been broken by a previous restorer). The nuts holding in the jugs were plenty oily, and came off easily. I was having trouble accessing the rear nut. After trying various wrenches, I reached in and found it came off with my fingers! I guess the last guy couldn't get at it either. I'm taking them to the machine shop for a valve job. They were leaking oil, so it's also a good time to replace the gaskets. The pistons are the original cast iron type. I think the valve lifters have been re-made. The originals had pot metal. Note also that the lifter clamp nuts had no cotter pins. They do now. Phil Edited March 25, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) I picked up the jugs today from the engine shop (Fred's Engine Service in Coatesville, PA). He re-cut the valves, put in new exhaust valve seats and replaced all the studs (2 needed thread inserts). He painted them gray, but I will do them in black, which I think was the original color. He said the iron pistons looked OK, so I guess I will keep them. Valve seats have some grease on them to retard rust. Phil Edited March 30, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Here is the Stromberg KO-1. Looks pretty polished. I'm thinking the "O" refers to "Overland." Phil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) Spraying primer on the jugs yesterday. Note the handy roof "drying rack". Phil Edited April 5, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Looks great Phil. If you tried that down here at my place you'd have yellow jugs in about 20 minutes. The pollen here is pretty intense right now but I have a feeling it is just getting started!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) A couple odd revelations today. I drained the fuel tank and looked inside to find a loose rubbery film. I assume this was a previous attempt at tank sealing. I was also surprised to find that the tank (under the front seat) was held in place only by the fuel line and gravity! After disconnecting the copper line, the tank lifted right out. The inside of the tank looks rusty, but I see no holes or leaks. My plan is bring it to a local shop that does fuel tank restoration. My next perplexity was the piston rings. I removed the upper pair of 3/16" rings to check the slot depth only to discover a 3/8"- wide ring underneath. I've never seen this before. Any comments? Also, the rings are only about .010" wider than the pistons, which seems odd. Phil Edited April 7, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 The "loose rubbery film" may be a pre-ethanol tank lining coming loose after being subjected to ethanol. It happened to me with my previous Jeepster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 A friend had the same problem he strapped his tank to an electric cement mixer, put a length of chain inside the tank and left the cement mixer running for an hour which cleaned out the old sealant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 The rebuilt Bosch magneto arrived today from Mainely Magnetos. It had the coil rewound, new condenser, polished and repainted. Looks pretty. They also replaced the hardware store nuts with the correct brass nuts. Phil 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) Gas tank clean-out began yesterday. As per the photo above, the tank had been treated with an early sealant which was peeling off. I discovered the sealant dissolved readily in MEK solvent. After drying out the tank, I agitated a gallon of the solvent (a quart at-a-time) through the sealed tank, pouring out a liquid resembling cafe au lait. The MEK dries rapidly, so I was able to continue after lunch to vacuum out even more rust particles; perhaps 2 cups in all. The next step is the POR-15 fuel tank kit I purchased. Photos show the sealer after I drained it from the tank and the MEK has dissolved. It's still rubbery in texture. You also see me agitating the tank. Others have used cement mixers or the like. I'm getting a full work-out, however! Phil Edited April 14, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) The weekend was spent treating the fuel tank with POR-15 "Metal Prep" to ready it for the sealant. It's necessary for the tank to be "bone dry" before the sealer is applied, so I blew it out for several hours with a hot air gun. It sure looked dry, looking through the gas cap hole. However, baffles divide the tank into three sections, so I decided to de-solder the plug the previous restorer had placed on the tank. An old brass tag indicated the job had been done by a New Jersey radiator shop in 1963. I hesitated to do this when there was a possibility of explosion, but the clean-outs had eliminated all traces of gas. It turned out the repair tag covered another hole over the center "cell" of the tank. A look inside with a flashlight revealed it was still quite wet with the rinse water, and I was glad I hadn't applied the sealer. Phil Tag seems to say "04/07/63." However, on another hole was soldered a 1979 penny. Edited April 15, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) The re-sealed gas tank looks much better, especially comparing the interior to the earlier photo I posted. The sealant directions said to add a little water to the remaining liquid and put it in the trash. Here is what I discovered a couple days later: Edited April 22, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) I refinished 21 grease cup caps. There were three sizes. Six or eight more to go (i think; I keep finding more). Edited April 22, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 I also removed the fenders today. One had an amateur repair. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 I think the push rods had some pot metal and often failed. Mine were replaced at some point, I think. I'd be curious about any improvements. My Hupmobile also has the centrally-placed accelerator pedal. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 I got the fenders stripped. My sandblaster (Simpson's Metal Refinishing) turned down the air pressure and did a nice job removing the old lacquer and red primer. Some flaws were revealed, but overall not too bad. Phil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I wished that the wings (fenders) on my 1914 Humberette looked that good! Although my car was taken of the road in 1922, the fenders had seen some battering in the 8-years it had been on the road. I am enjoying reading your posts and seeing the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 Thanks. A few coats of paint can hide a lot of defects. I guess I'm lucky. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) UPHOLSTERY The Overland 83, even though an open car, was originally was produced with a grey wool upholstery. An Overland collector sent me a swatch from his original car. Here is what I have found in fabrics that are close. They're not cheap: $95-$120/yd. I calculate I'll need 10 yards. The original piece is in the center. Which would you choose? Phil Edited May 4, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 51 minutes ago, MochetVelo said: UPHOLSTERY The Overland 83, even though an open car, was originally was produced with a grey wool upholstery. An Overland collector sent me a swatch from his original car. Here is what I have found in fabrics that are close. They're not cheap: $95-$120/yd. I calculate I'll need 10 yards. The original piece is in the center. Which would you choose? Phil Personally, I would not do any of the above, as you will never be able to get these wools wet and as a result will hinder your fun with this "touring" car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I agree with John. If I was doing that car, I would get some leather or vinyl for the interior. I have never seen a touring car with cloth upholstery. OK....I have not seen ALL of them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I'm no expert, but here is my two pennies worth! Wool has natural lanolin, in the UK there are lots of sheep and they are out in the rain! Before man made material, wool was used for making outdoor coats. Of course with the process of making the cloth the wool may have lost it's waterproof qualities? With the samples try putting a drop of water on each of the samples, including the original, and see if any. or all of them, soak up the water. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 During WWI the army distributed grey, unbleached natural wool yarn with the lanolin still in it, to ladies knitting circles to be made into sweaters for the troops. Tens of thousands were made, all to a standard pattern. When I was in my 20s I was given one by a WWI veteran who told me he "wore it the winter of '17". I showed it to my mother who immediately identified it as an "army sweater". When asked how she knew, she told me that a friend of her mother's, Mrs. Morse, "knit one every week through both world wars." But, that said, I very much doubt you could find upholstery cloth woven from unbleached grey wool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 No upholstery cloth will have lanolin in it - passengers would have stains in their clothes! If you do use a wool fabric, make sure it is pre-shrunk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 After several weeks away, I've returned to the Overland. This weekend, I welded in a couple patch panels on the rusty fender. I'm not an award-winning welder, but I think I improved on the horrible job the last guy did. Phil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 I finally removed the engine today. After much prying and wiggling, my U.K. Overland friend informed me that the clutch cone must be unbolted from the driveshaft first. After that, the engine came right out. Photo shows some flywheel tooth damage, which may not be too serious... Phil 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hursst Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Good to see some updated posts. Keep up the good work. Great car! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 The engine is now at the machine shop for new pistons I purchased from Egge. The machinist says the rings are the same as big-block Chevy. I also found a replacement ring gear (see previous photo) which I will have installed at another shop that has a large lathe. The original gear worked, but I figured now (with the engine out) was the best time to replace it. Overall, the engine does not have heavy wear, and the new pistons are the original O.D. The fenders are now in epoxy primer and next will be leveled with polyester filler. Phil 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 A visit to then engine shop today revealed the crankshaft and bearing caps installed with everything clean and shining. Several steel shims dropped out of the engine while it was in the hot tank. These were apparently rattling around somewhere inside. The crank bearings (zinc) were adjusted to obtain the proper clearance, and the crankshaft turns smoothly. The next step is to fit the rods, which have babbet bearings. These bearings look OK, but I must wait to see how well they fit. I picked up the damaged flywheel and brought it to a machine shop to get a new ring gear installed. It must be turned down to 17-inches and the ring gear heated to 400-degrees and dropped on. I'll try to bring my camera next time. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted August 15, 2019 Author Share Posted August 15, 2019 Another visit to the engine shop, this time with the flywheel and newly-installed ring gear (done at a machine shop with a larger lathe). The engine itself is coming along. Fred has finished the connecting rods. He installed new bronze bushings on the piston ends. Turns out that two rods had been installed backward. The oil scoops should draw oil from the pan and up into the large bearings. Photos show them set up correctly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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