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1915 Overland Model 83


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A visit to the engine shop yesterday showed the motor nearly assembled and the valves timed. He cleaned the oil pan in a heated tank especially for aluminum, and then put it atop a propane heater that caused the oil trapped in the crevices to bubble out. Finally, a treatment of lacquer thinner and a coat of Glyptal to seal it. Experience told the rebuilder that this prevents sludge from sticking to the poor-quality casting. Word is that it may be ready next week. Meanwhile, Bob Knaak is restoring my leather clutch with some improvements. I'll report more on that when it returns.

 

Phil

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On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 2:53 AM, Luv2Wrench said:

Either Fred is a small man or that's a big engine.

 

Jeff, I think you are correct in your assumption that Fred is a small man, seeing him, yet again, in another photo with the engine! Judging by the size of the ring gear he must be about 4-foot tall! :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm working on the body, doing the painting while the weather still permits. Today, I sprayed the fenders black after numerous priming coats. I also applied primer to the stripped body. As can be seen, I have little room in my shop for this job, and I'm unable to spray. Therefore, I decided to try to apply the finish with roller and brush using boat paint. This sounds hoakey, but there are some high-quality paints designed for hand application on yachts. I'm using "Alexseal", a German paint system. Will it work? Stay tuned!

 

Today, I applied 2 coats of primer using a 4-inch roller. The primer is an epoxy or urethane (not sure which) that mixes 1:1 with a catalyst + about 15% solvent (all rather pricey). Anyway, I will let the primer set overnight and then sand it with 400 paper. The prep involved paint stripper, cleaning, application of Ospho (phosphoric acid) to neutralize rust, sand again, and tack. Incidentally, I began by using a foam roller (see photo), but switched to mohair after the foam started to fall apart! It didn't seem to do any harm, but the solvents in this stuff are powerful.

 

Phil

 

 

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Edited by MochetVelo (see edit history)
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I'm very curious to see how this comes out. A lot of people seem to forget - or maybe not know - that spray painting wasn't invented until about the 1920s. All brass cars were painted with a brush originally. The only real problem is that the paints aren't readily available any more although they sell "coach paint" in the UK and it's still done there. I don't have a place where I could spray paint either which is why I'm curious about your materials and the result.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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PPG used to (and may still) have a line of roll-on primers.  They were really only intended for spot repairs so you could use them in an open shop without creating overspray or having to tie up a booth for something minor.

 

 

23 minutes ago, MochetVelo said:

The primer is an epoxy or urethane (not sure which)

 

You really ought to find out because with automotive primers, urethanes are not supposed to be applied direct to bare metal without first using an etching primer or otherwise prepping the surface.  Epoxy can be applied over properly prepared bare metal.

 

 

19 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

The only real problem is that the paints aren't readily available any more although they sell "coach paint" in the UK and it's still done there. 

 

I've tried to buy that stuff from the UK before and won't ship to the US.  I'm curious about what it actually is.  The words "enamel" and "varnish' and such are used so generically that whatever they're selling may be things that are still commonly available here.  Try buying "Spar Varnish" in just about any store you can walk into today and virtually all of it is urethane. 

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The Alexseal 442 primer is designed to be applied to bare metal. I think it is an epoxy formula. Their finish colors are rather nice, I suppose because they are marketed for expensive yachts. I'm using their "dark green" which looks like Brewster Green, in my opinion. The finish coats are applied with a roller, then "tipped" with a good brush to remove the roller texture. After it sets, it can be wet sanded and buffed, if desired. Of course, I may be an optimist!

 

If it works, I'll give more detailed information.

 

Phil

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I purchased the Alexseal finishes from Hamilton Marine. It's a rather complex system. There are separate primers and topcoats for spray and brush applications. For the gray primer (ALS-P4423Q), you need also the catalyst (ALS-C4427Q) and the solvent (ALS-R5015Q). For the topcoat (Premium Topcoat 501), there is a different catalyst, but the same reducer. Alexseal also sells high-build primers plus a few types of epoxy-based fillers. Alexseal also has an online manual which is not as clearly-written as it could be. You may be able to purchase these in the U.K., as they are made in Germany. 

 

For a simpler but nice-looking finish, I suggest Epifanes Yacht Enamel. These do not need a catalyst, but they provide a very smooth (though not quite as hard) finish. Check Jamestown Distributors for a long list of similar finishes and supplies. Good luck!

 

Phil

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3 hours ago, MochetVelo said:

There are separate primers and topcoats for spray and brush applications.

 

The reason for this is sprayed finishes have calculated into the final equation the necessary solvents for "dispersion".  In order to get the paint or primer to leave the gun and land properly on the panel the formulation is different from brushed-on finishes knowing that certain elements will be lost as it travels through the air.  This is why people can seldom obtain satisfactory results when trying to apply by brush automotive finishes that are designed to be sprayed.   

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Well, I cheated a bit today. I moved my 1921 Peugeot which sat about 10 inches from the Overland. Seems I was asked to display it at the Simeone Museum in Philadelphia later this month, and this has opened up a bit more space around the Overland. Today, I brought over my HVLP sprayer and applied two coats of Eastwood primer/surfacer atop my epoxy boat primer. I like the way this primer/surfacer sands. I used it on the fenders, and I can user 220/320/400 grit papers and then apply the finish coat. The HVLP system (using a bleeder-type gun) has very little over-spray and is quite low-tech (ie; no compressor, regulator, water filter, etc.).

 

Phi

 

 

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Edited by MochetVelo (see edit history)
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  • 4 weeks later...

I applied the finish coats to the Overland last weekend. I got a new HVLP spray gun from Eastwood so I could use my air compressor. This applied the paint much smoother than my old bleeder HVLP gun. I wanted a Brewster Green, as stated in the Overland specs. I actually think Overland used a lighter green than I associate with the Brewster color, but I went with the darker green. At my local FinishMaster, I showed the guy some samples I got from auto touch-up sprays. He matched the color exactly, first mixing a small can to show me. "Looks like British Racing Green to me," he said. Come to think of it, what's the difference? I got a single-stage Nason urethane, a paint made by Dupont. Of course, it needs its own activator and solvents, making a gallon cost around $280 with everything needed. As I say, the paint applied very smoothly and I'm happy with the result. I think I can buff it after wet sanding with 1500 and finer. The side panels I sprayed with Eastwood's Boulevard Black, a paint I like also (plus it's a lot cheaper than the Nason).

 

Phil

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I removed the steel dashboard and stripped the layers of goopy paint. A previous owner crudely added a temp. gauge, so I cut a slug and tack welded it in place. using some magnets to hold it in position. The first photo shows the repair before priming. Hopefully, it will look more original soon.

 

Phil

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

I took apart the Overland oil "tell-tale" dash gauge today. Engine oil is pumped through, spinning the little wheel. The gauge was sealed with a generous glop of silicone. I'm wondering how it was originally sealed. It needs two gaskets: the first to keep oil from running out the threads, and one to keep it from leaking out under the glass bezel. In the photo, L-R, is the brass gauge and spinner, the brass spacer that fits under the bezel, the bezel itself (with a leather gasket ring?) and, finally, the 2 paper gaskets.

 

Phil

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Thanks, Bruno! Your car looks beautiful. Still working on mine; sidetracked on my '24 Citroen, but that's another story! Today, I wet sanded and buffed the Overland radiator shell. I hadn't even noticed it, but the radiator cap was missing. Only the inner brass casting was in place. It was originally encased in hard rubber.  I'd like to make a mold to reproduce this part. In the original blueprint, it's the part with the bold lines. Maybe with 3-D printing?

 

Phil

 

 

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Then-&-Now does sell vulcanized rubber products, but the Overland radiator car is a unique part. It's not actually a "cap," nut really a "bolt" in that it tightens down the actual cap. Here is a photo. The rubber is cast over the star-shaped brass knob.

 

Perhaps I could make a mold from another cap. 

 

Phil

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You could email them a picture of the brass knob and a copy of the print.  They should be able to do the rubber over the brass part just like the drawing. Wouldn't hurt to ask. They did my transmission mount. I sent them the old one and they made a new one and using the original metal bracket. They make the molds in house and do the rubber work.

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There was an article in the HCCA Gazette some time ago (maybe 2 or 3 years?) that showed a technique for casting Locomobile hard rubber radiator caps. It was probably the most useful article I've seen there. I am guessing that you could do that here although it would be a bit of work,

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I have been playing with 3/M black auto body panel adhesive - used to basically weld together sheet metal - pretty impressive stuff and also sands and polishes nicely.   

 

I was at my restorer's shop one day and they were fixing rust pits with it - I asked and then they showed me a bunch of other projects they had used it on via a Citroen, MGA, and ... - so i became a believer and .... - I love for black 30's steering wheel repairs. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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Here is my radiator cap project. It didn't come out perfect, but I think it's usable. I used "Smooth-Cast Onyx" casting plastic. It's jet black urethane, and quite hard. I was unable to brake a test casting with a hammer. It set up in only few minutes, which might be good or bad. There were some bubbles in the casting and molds, but it takes body filler well, and can be painted. A vacuum set-up could have eliminated the bubbles, but that was more than I wanted to tackle. 

The photos, in no particular order:

 

 

Here is the finished wood pattern after painting.

 

 

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Molding the part using drill press.

 

 

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The pattern (correctly sized) is glued onto the wood I turned on the lathe.

 

 

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A carving chisel fit the pattern nicely.

 

 

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The casting ready to be smoothed and polished.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've begun work on the windshield. The safety glass was installed with silicone, and required a lot of putty knife persuasion to remove. Fortunately, the glass was in poor shape anyway, so a few more cracks didn't hurt! The frames themselves are pretty rusted, but I think restorable. The adjustable top windshield frame mechanism is quite interesting.

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

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Looking to re-attach the wheels so I can push the car about, I'm not trying to restore the bearings and seals. The front bearing seals were a couple worn-out O-rings on turned steel plates. I'm sure they were originally felt or leather seals, so I cut some leather pieces and turned them to size on the lathe using my rotary sander. 

 

Phil

 

 

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The rear wheel bearing seals are a bit more complex. They seal the roller bearing oil from the brake drum. These were felt, according to the owner's manual, and they were replaced at some point with neoprene washers which had disintegrated, causing the brakes to get soaked with oil. Not only that, the seal holders have been mutilated in some sort of attempt at repair (?). The steel base is useable, but I must figure out how to straighten and/or remake the riveted cover pieces. I plan to use a modern lip seal here.

 

Phil

 

The brake drums have a good coat of bearing oil. In the center, the six machine screws hold on the seal.

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The seal holder with it's many bends and repairs:

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The top piece is really bent up. I'd like to replace it.

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Hello Phil,  What is the temp rating of the panel adhesive that you used for the radiator cap nut project?  Is that end result the raw adhesive or has it been painted?  Is it very UV resistant?  I have a couple of projects that I would like to make at home, similar to your cap lock nut.

Al

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