Jeff Snook Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Hey all, I'm new to the forum, so hope I'm asking the right way. I inherited a 1933 Cadillac 355C from my father a few years ago. Took it to the Auburn Spring Meet this past May. The judges questioned the blue dot tail light lenses and it appears I got some points deducted (although it did get it's first junior!). Anyway I am interested where I could find a definitive answer to prove to the judges they were (or were not) original to the car. Thanks for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) There was a discussion about this a while ago. Here is the thread.... Edited February 23, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Those that know me , know that although I think that judging is a viable part of the car collecting world, I never have my cars judged as I find the most pleasure is in driving them. That doesn't mean I have cars that wouldn't win awards ( cars I have restored and sold and now have other owners are the ones entering them for judging). I do own a Packard from 1930 that had a AACA 1st place tag on the stone guard when I bought it 3 years ago, I changed the stone guard to a different style that I thought more attractive but never refitted that badge back to the car on display but put it in an envelope in the glove box for some owner in the future to discover. Regarding the blue dot tail light - if you like the look as much as your Dad did, then leave it, it is your personal statement for the car. If you get points taken off - does it really matter that you didn't get an award or if you got an award with them on the car does it matter how many points you did/didn't score. Life is short, enjoy what you have the way you have if if you like it . ' Miles of smiles' going down the road and thinking that an 80+ year old car is still on the road and can bring a great deal of satisfaction not just to you but to all who see you driving a magnificent car like you have. I recall a friend and his wife from England who attended Hershey with me in 1988, paused to look at a 1937 LaSalle sedan we saw driving past the "Blue Field" as we stood there not saying anything and the sedan came and went, he commented "old cars are best when viewed in motion". I will always thing of that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I remember having a conversation several years ago with an elderly gentleman. He owned an early Thirties Cadillac, and ran into the same incident with Judges that you had about Blue Dots. He said that Cadillac from that era, came with Blue Dot taillights on their cars. The best thing that you can do, is find a brochure, and or, an accessory catalog for your automobile to see what was, or was not available. Good luck. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Jeff, congratulations on your First Junior. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I find it interesting that the judges questioned you about the blue dots. If they didn't know and weren't positive, then they should not have deducted any points for it. They were just guessing. As kaiser points out, this was discussed and from what I remember reading, some cars of the era did have blue dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 If it's any help, here's a 1933 Cadillac club sedan I had a few years ago and it does indeed have blue dot taillights. This car was also a multiple first prize winner in a variety of clubs. I also have the car's build sheet, although it does not show anything about the taillight lenses. I'm inclined to believe they're correct. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) The blue dots are authentic for your Cadillac and probably 100% across the cars (sidenote, I know there were some funky laws and maybe a state had outlawed and you would have them probably had a red dot substitute). I would try to find an original factory photograph. Also, the accessory brochure may show a picture on the license plate frame page or luggage trunk page. Sidenote: you probably want to be prepared with factory engine photos if possible, an accessory brochure, an owner's manual, a shop manual (reprints are fine as I know originals are pretty rare), and whatever factory photos of exterior and interior that you may be able to get your hands on. By the way, I had a few people look sideways at my 1932 Rolls Royce Phantom I Springfield that had a "Blue" Stop Light Lens - it was a New York delivery car = Plaza -Savoy Hotel delivery to be exact. Edited February 24, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Boltendal Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Please find a scan of the pages in the preliminary service information of Cadillac regarding the blue dot tail light Johan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Maybe this will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 The Cadillac LaSalle Club Authenticity (Judging) manual (page 141) confirms the blue dot lenses were standard from the factory but were illegal in California, so there were some cars built with all red lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Well, Greg and John have your answer, tell the Judges you want your points back! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazA Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) On 2/23/2019 at 11:14 AM, Jeff Snook said: The judges questioned the blue dot tail light lenses and it appears I got some points deducted (although it did get it's first junior!). Jeff said "appears", not he did. No mention of judging sheet request, but even if...would just say category. Sounds like Jeff just getting prepared for any future meets, AACA or other such as CLC, which is great Team captain may ask questions, but doesn't necessarily mean points off....really no way to tell. 46woodie mentioned shouldn't take off if not sure, I would edit to wouldn't, per judging school. Edited February 26, 2019 by ChazA (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Snook Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 On 2/24/2019 at 6:40 AM, Johan Boltendal said: Please find a scan of the pages in the preliminary service information of Cadillac regarding the blue dot tail light Johan WOW I am so impressed with the knowledge shared on my tail light issue. Now I've got the answer and will be able to defend the "blue dots" at the National Meet in Auburn this spring. Thanks so much for the replys and the documents shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Snook Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 WOW I am so impressed with the knowledge shared on my tail light issue. Now I've got the answer and will be able to defend the "blue dots" at the National Meet in Auburn this spring. Thanks so much for the replys and the documents shared. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Jeff Congratulations. I'm sorry that your judges docked points for the blue dots. Hopefully a wide-spread note can be sent to judges regarding this, as Cadillac is not the only make that had them. You mentioned you got an AACA Junior award. Unless you obtain a Senior award, you will not be able to show at Auburn this year. This year the show is an Annual Grand Nationals, which is only open to Senior award-winning vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Snook Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 Sorry to hear the Spring Auburn is a Grand National and our Cadillac is not eligible! We've been working on it this winter to it get ready for Senior competition. Just have to wait until Auburn 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Hopefully 2020 will bring better vision to the judges. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazA Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, edinmass said: I have been a judge, and showed cars all over the globe in many different clubs and venues...........benefit of the doubt should ALWAYS go to the car......too many half AXXED experts with a hat or badge that says judge. Yes, I know and understand it's difficult to get judges, and I respect the work, as it isn't easy, but too many people "feel the power" and want to rain on someones restoration. Don't let it spoil your good time, its a great car.........Ed Again, Jeff said "appears"...not he wrote in for the judging sheet and the response back was "lights". Judge here too, and of course the benefit of the doubt should ALWAYS go to the car as you say and all judges that I have met know that Good point on West mentioning relaying to judges, but some assumptions on the thread here Sounds like Jeff had a good time (nothing spoiled), and won a first junior! Again, looks like he is just preparing for other meets, say CLC or Senior award. Edited February 26, 2019 by ChazA (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Jeff Snook said: Sorry to hear the Spring Auburn is a Grand National and our Cadillac is not eligible! We've been working on it this winter to it get ready for Senior competition. Just have to wait until Auburn 2020. Jeff if you did not see my edit you CAN go to the Charlotte Meet in April and get your Senior and then go to Auburn!! A whole bunch of people are doing this as it is a new rule for the club...you do not have to sit out a year as in the past. Most of the time our judges do the right thing. A couple years ago as I was judging national awards the team captain came over to me on this same subject (blue dots). Fortunately for a change I had the right answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/26/2019 at 5:08 PM, Jeff Snook said: Sorry to hear the Spring Auburn is a Grand National and our Cadillac is not eligible! We've been working on it this winter to it get ready for Senior competition. Just have to wait until Auburn 2020. You may want to look at your other AACA options - possibly something else available nearby or you may put it on a trailer and ... Also, you may want to explore your CCCA options, as well as Cadillac LaSalle Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/26/2019 at 4:08 PM, Jeff Snook said: Sorry to hear the Spring Auburn is a Grand National and our Cadillac is not eligible! We've been working on it this winter to it get ready for Senior competition. Just have to wait until Auburn 2020. Jeff, as Steve has noted, take your car to Charlotte this year, WITH a copy of the factory documentation showing the Blue Dots, be awarded your car's Senior, and register for Auburn to be judged for Grand National. Best of luck with your beautiful car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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