Nick Galente

Valve Cage Removal

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Hello Larry, I was told you are the man to speak to regarding the special tool necessary to remove the valve cages from my 1922 model 22-45, 5 passenger touring  car.  Can you assist me with locating the tool?  It looks like there are two sizes.  I'm trying to unseize the engine.  I loaded it up with Kroil and it's been soaking for a couple of weeks now.  I wanted to remove the valves to possibly get a better look at the top of the pistons, which when I discovered I need this special tool.  Feel free to contact me any time at 914-325-1914.

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

I made this valve cage from scrap 3/4" square tubing and a long bolt. 

Remove the castellated cage retainer nut and spring assy.  

Liberally lube the cage vale with 50/50 ATF & Acetone for a day or more.

Remove the top nut & washer from the puller.

Insert the valve stem into the bottom hole, place the heavy top washer over the stem & replace the keeper.

Turn the lower nut to pull the cage assembly. 

Some valves may require just putting a strain on the puller for a day or more with more lube and/or heat.

 

 

Valve Cage Puller.JPG

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, Nick Galente said:

Hello Larry, I was told you are the man to speak to regarding the special tool necessary to remove the valve cages from my 1922 model 22-45, 5 passenger touring  car.  Can you assist me with locating the tool?  It looks like there are two sizes.  I'm trying to unseize the engine.  I loaded it up with Kroil and it's been soaking for a couple of weeks now.  I wanted to remove the valves to possibly get a better look at the top of the pistons, which when I discovered I need this special tool.  Feel free to contact me any time at 914-325-1914.

 

Nick, 

 

Don't know if I am the Larry you are looking form but let me know some more information on your situation and please post pictures.  You should be able to call me.  I am in most of the car club directories or pm me and I will send you my number.

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

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Nick,

  A word of caution regarding a stuck engine.  On my E 45, the water pump was rusted solid, preventing the engine from turning over.  I would recommend you verify , or remove the water pump shaft, before you try and force the engine to move.  If it is the pump that is locked up, you could end up damaging the timing gear forcing the engine to move.

 

 Glenn Manes

Wheatridge CO USA

Edited by Glenn Manes
spelling (see edit history)
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Nick is one of our new BCA members after purchasing the 1922-45 at Hershey. I have spoken to him several times. He is very enthusiastic about his new project.

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5 hours ago, Glenn Manes said:

Nick,

  A word of caution regarding a stuck engine.  On my E 45, the water pump was rusted solid, preventing the engine from turning over.  I would recommend you verify , or remove the water pump shaft, before you try and force the engine to move.  If it is the pump that is locked up, you could end up damaging the timing gear forcing the engine to move.

 

 Glenn Manes

Wheatridge CO USA

Thanks Glen, I did think of that and it seems to be free, although the shaft is in rough shape.

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23 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

I made this valve cage from scrap 3/4" square tubing and a long bolt. 

Remove the castellated cage retainer nut and spring assy.  

Liberally lube the cage vale with 50/50 ATF & Acetone for a day or more.

Remove the top nut & washer from the puller.

Insert the valve stem into the bottom hole, place the heavy top washer over the stem & replace the keeper.

Turn the lower nut to pull the cage assembly. 

Some valves may require just putting a strain on the puller for a day or more with more lube and/or heat.

 

 

Valve Cage Puller.JPG

Thanks Mark, but I am looking for the tool to remove the castellated cage retainer nut.  Also, with respect to the 50/50 mixture what is ATF?

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While there is a dedicated tool to remove the nut, the usual method was to use a punch and hammer to remove the nuts.

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Don, I spoke with Nick the other evening and cautioned him about getting a hammer and punch anywhere near those cage nuts.  The top of the block in the water jacket area is pretty thin and beating on those nuts can be hazardous to the block casting.  I am posting some photos of the cage nut tools that I made just for the removal/installation procedure.  The two different sizes are needed for the engines from 1918 and on.  The intake valve increased in diameter beginning with the 1918 models.  There was a cage nut tool in the tool kit of every new Buick just for this purpose.  It only had two prongs to engage the slots.  I like to think that I improved the design a little bit by putting four prongs on it AND I used 4340 material for the toughness.  Anyone can do what I did here with a lathe and a milling machine.  The handles really do help with the nuts coming out and going back in.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PA310093.JPG

PA310094.JPG

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I didnt say using a hammer and punch was good, just that it was done. On my well used '18, it is obvious the valve retainer nuts never saw a tool like yours for removal! They look hand forged - plenty of "character and patina".

The tool is better.

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Gearwrench makes a cage nut remover for modern cage nuts, in 4 sizes. Don't know which size to get. It's a handle with a yoked end, one side of the yoke is sharp for pushing, the other side has a hook for pulling. Push down on the tool with one hand and turn the handle with the other. Flip the tool over for tightening.

 

http://www.gearench.com/products/valve-cage-wrenches.asp

 

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1 hour ago, Morgan Wright said:

Gearwrench makes a cage nut remover for modern cage nuts, in 4 sizes. Don't know which size to get. It's a handle with a yoked end, one side of the yoke is sharp for pushing, the other side has a hook for pulling. Push down on the tool with one hand and turn the handle with the other. Flip the tool over for tightening.

 

http://www.gearench.com/products/valve-cage-wrenches.asp

 

 

Will not remove the valve cage which was the inquiry of this thread.  Not sure the spanner wrench design that you talk about that there is enough room to even loosen the valve cage nut.

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

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On 10/31/2017 at 1:10 PM, Nick Galente said:

Thanks Mark, but I am looking for the tool to remove the castellated cage retainer nut.  Also, with respect to the 50/50 mixture what is ATF?

 

 

Look again

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Penetrating Oils

 

Machinist's Workshop Magazine (March/April or May/June, 2007) actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*

None ..................... 516 pounds
WD-40 .................. 238 pounds
PB Blaster ............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ..... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

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18 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

Will not remove the valve cage which was the inquiry of this thread.  Not sure the spanner wrench design that you talk about that there is enough room to even loosen the valve cage nut.

 

I'm with Larry S..  Before you buy that wrench make sure you can make it fit and that you can return it.  Very little room between nuts/springs to 'swing' that wrench and find one of the 4 flats at just the right location/angle to do so.

 

I spent weeks last Winter re-doing my cages/valves/springs/felt washers/keepers.  Those looking for valve cage info can search my posts.  Hope it helps.

 

Terry W. has the sweet set-up.  Short of that, I'm lucky to get my brass drift on one of the nut flats in the correct location/direction to tap it with a hammer.  Often you can get at it from one side and then have to jump over to the other side of the engine to get the next 'available' flat all the while making sure the cage and the 'bird hole' is not turning on you.

 

Truth be told, I'm not the first guy (or last) to 'tap' on those valve cage retaining nuts by the look of them on my car.  Terry sold (ok, nearly gave) me some new cage nuts.  They look like jewelry.  New seal washers too.  Museums, Tiffany's, Fort Knox . . . .  call me asking if I would loan them one for display. :P  "The Doo Dah Collection"

 

 

 

Edited by Brian_Heil
typo (see edit history)
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And a COOL collection it is by the way.  New Year's Eve morning it was -9 degrees F.  New Year's Day morning it was -15 degrees F in Doo Dah.  We want you to know that that is damned cold here in Doo Dah.  Thanks for the kind words Brother Brian.  I have only been messing around with OLD Buicks for starting on 55 years yesterday.  As you say, it is all about friends, fun, and old Buicks.

 

Terry Wiegand

A COOOOLD Doo Dah

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Crude but effective!

My father made this from a pipe nipple.  A deep socket would have been a better choice.

He drilled a hole through the upper end to use a big screw driver or a piece of bar stock for a handle.

Valve Cage Removal Tool.JPG

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)
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IMHO, your time is better spent making the proper tool than beating on something because you don't have the proper tool.

 

How tall does the socket need to be to cover the spring, etc.?

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