Nick Galente

Valve Cage Removal

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7 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Kyle :

 When I re-did the horrible job they did on my 1925 Standard. They used steel split rivets ! DSCF1410.thumb.JPG.0eb3a4578e709047902e6eae1d1c7e2f.JPGDSCF1411.thumb.JPG.dd76151ad0392bbf6033f79a7736c94f.JPG

A happy thought of 20 or so steel teeth (on each wheel) tearing up your precious brake drums every time you applied the brakes. I tried to get them riveted locally with the correct brass tubular rivets.  No one near me would do the job. So I bought a bench mounted press. It still does not have enough "umph " to set them correctly. So I set up a staking arbor. I made a fixture for my drill press to do the drilling. It would be so much easier with the proper tool!

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the lower anvel in this machine must be a over center setter did you squeeze some rivets without the lining in place to set the anvil at the right height I have a lot of riveting tools for aircraft brakes but I would think that they would build them the same way  the foot pedal goes really easy when it passes center just as the rivet is set-face folds back over .is the lower set threaded to change the pinch point .-Kyle 

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

Here are a few photos of my 1922 Buick 22-45 that I have recently purchased.  Progress is moving forward but very slowly.  The discussions and tips have been extremely valuable.  Thank you everyone for the comments.

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9 minutes ago, Nick Galente said:

Here are a few photos of my 1922 Buick 22-45 that I have recently purchased.  Progress is moving forward but very slowly.  The discussions and tips have been extremely valuable.  Thank you everyone for the comments.

Buick 1.JPG

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Nick,

 

Always happy to help.  Many of us have been right where you are.  Use the Forum search feature and you will find lots of topics covered in detail.  If you get stumped, send me an email.

 

Also, I'm still amazed at how many of these early Buicks keep getting hauled out of garages and barns.  Crazy.

 

 

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I don't think of New Jersey as being full of barns but I guess there's still is a bit of farmland left in Joisey. Was it in a barn or garage?

 

And most of all.....WHAT EXIT???

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My tool was barely small enough to fit the exhaust cage nut, I thought it would be better to add another pipe in the middle.

 

Now OD of the tool is 2 1/4" and ID is 1 3/8"

 

If anybody wants to borrow this tool when I'm done just email me.

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Edited by Morgan Wright
give measurements (see edit history)
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On 1/10/2018 at 4:59 PM, Mark Shaw said:

Yes.

Here are some more pictures of my E45 in its new habitat, as requested by Terry...

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And a couple of views of its rehabilitated engine with nicely aligned valve cages!!

 

 

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I made it from these:

 

It's an impact wrench socket, size deep 1 and 1/4 inch.

 

Uses a 3/4 inch drive ...... I bought a 20 inch center-drive bar to drive it

 

 

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Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

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I made it using a hack saw to mark the teeth and a wheel cutter to cut out the metal. Then finish it with a large hand file.

 

 

DSCN2216.JPG

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That's for the exhaust valves. I have to make another one for the intake valves using this size:

 

 

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OK here they are. The grinding wheel is to increase the inside of the 1.25 socket. It was actually 1.28 but in order to fit easily over the spring and keeper it has to be about 1.30 or 1.31.

 

 

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Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)
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I'm not trying to be a wise guy here, but, it would have been a whole lot easier to have made the two tools from bar stock using a lathe and a milling machine.  The sockets have some degree of heat treatment making things more difficult than necessary.  The photo shows what I did for the tools.  I have been rebuilding the cages for several years now.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

JEFF KEARNEY CAGES 109.jpg

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I soaked the top of the head in Evaporust for 2 hours, then hosed it off with a garden hose (it's water soluble). LOTS of rust came off. Then I shot the excess water off with an air gun and poured more Evaporust on, and planned to soak it again for 2 more hours, but 2 guys showed up after only a few minutes, so we got right on it. With 3 guys......one to press down on the socket and 2 to turn the ends of the T-drive, we got the 12 nuts off in about 3 or 4 minutes. They basically just came off easy, not super easy but not bad at all. The exhaust nuts were easier than the intake.

 

Terry, I don't have a lathe or milling machine. Thanks though. Appreciate it.

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Terry, the reason I used impact sockets instead of hardened chrome sockets is they are easier to cut, and plenty strong but not hard and brittle like chrome or vanadium

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On 10/30/2017 at 1:40 PM, Mark Shaw said:

 

Liberally lube the cage vale with 50/50 ATF & Acetone for a day or more.

Re

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of people recommend this mix, but I found out that acetone and ATF don't mix. They are like oil and water.

 

I'm using 50/50 mix of acetone and brake fluid, which do mix.

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3 hours ago, Morgan Wright said:

I found out that acetone and ATF don't mix. They are like oil and water.

 

Just shake it to mix prior to application and it works perfectly.

I suppose you could run it through a homogenizer to keep it from eventually separating a few hours later, but most home shops don't have that capability.  

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2 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

 

Just shake it to mix prior to application and it works perfectly.

I suppose you could run it through a homogenizer to keep it from eventually separating a few hours later, but most home shops don't have that capability.  

 

I shook it too slowly and got butter.

 

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Obviously, the acetone is what does the work. If you use pure acetone, and then it evaporates in 5 minutes, you are back where you started. But if you use a 50 mix of an adjunct, it keeps the items separated after the acetone is gone. I doubt the ATF does anything other than that.

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7 hours ago, Morgan Wright said:

Obviously, the acetone is what does the work. If you use pure acetone, and then it evaporates in 5 minutes, you are back where you started. But if you use a 50 mix of an adjunct, it keeps the items separated after the acetone is gone. I doubt the ATF does anything other than that.

You couldn't be more wrong! 

Acetone has almost no lubricity, it is the carrier that dilutes the oil so it can penetrate into smaller spaces.  

It then evaporates leaving the oil behind to lubricate deeper into the joint where the oil by itself cannot penetrate.

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)
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On 8/11/2018 at 10:40 PM, Mark Shaw said:

You couldn't be more wrong! 

Acetone has almost no lubricity, it is the carrier that dilutes the oil so it can penetrate into smaller spaces.  

It then evaporates leaving the oil behind to lubricate deeper into the joint where the oil by itself cannot penetrate.

 

You could not be more wrong.

 

Acetone cannot dilute the "oil" (ATF) as you claim, it doesn't even dissolve in it. You say the acetone dilutes the ATF and acts as a carrier? You cannot dilute something without dissolving it. Does water dilute oil and carry it anywhere? No! Neither does acetone, and for the same reason. Water would actually get in the way of the oil and PREVENT it from getting in! Same with acetone. The acetone gets in first and blocks the ATF from getting in because they don't mix!

 

Lubricity has nothing to do with unsticking an engine which is glued stuck with carbon and hydrocarbon resins and glue. You need something which DISSOLVES the carbon and glue, not lubricates it. How can you lubricate something which isn't moving because it's glued together? Lubrication is for moving parts, not glued parts. Acetone dissolves most glues, all sorts of resins, it dissolves paint right off your car, and it dissolves most plastic. Try filling a styrofoam cup with acetone and see what happens. It melts the cup in 5 seconds and the bottom falls off. ATF doesn't do that. Acetone takes womens nail polish off. Try that with ATF. Try lubricating the nail polish off her nails.

 

In the acetone mix, the adjunctive, whether you use ATF as the adjunctive agent or oil or brake fluid, serves two purposes. First, it fills the spaces left behind after the acetone dissolves the glue and evaporates out. That keeps it unstuck after the acetone unsticks it. Second, it slows down the evaporation of the acetone so it stays there longer to dissolve more glue over more time. But ATF can't do the second one because it's not actually dissolved, which means it's not an adjunctive at all. The adjunctive agent has to be dissolved (like brake fluid) to raise the boiling point of the acetone so it doesn't dry up right away. Like salt raises the boiling point of water because it's dissolved in it, sand doesn't raise the boiling point of water because it doesn't dissolve. In the acetone ATF mix, the ATF doesn't do anything to keep the acetone there, it separates out and the acetone floats to the surface and evaporates away in 2 minutes, making it useless so the only good that acetone AFT mix did was in the first 2 minutes. The ATF by itself does nothing. Brake fluid dissolves in acetone and raises its boiling point and keeps it there a lot longer.

 

If you are looking for something really thin and penetrating that can dilute the ATF and move it into tiny cracks, as you describe, you don't need acetone. You can use gasoline to carry it in. But that doesn't work because only acetone dissolves the stuff it does.

 

I got $100 that says acetone/brake fluid is way better than acetone/ATF

 

 

 

Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

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Penetrating Oils

 

Machinist's Workshop Magazine (March/April or May/June, 2007) actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oil ....Average load*
None ............…….516 pounds
WD-40 ................238 pounds
PB Blaster ...........214 pounds
Liquid Wrench .....127 pounds
Kano Kroil ..........106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix...53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

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15 hours ago, Morgan Wright said:

where is acetone /  brake fluid on that list? 

 

Copied from: https://carcareguide.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/what-to-do-if-you-get-brake-fluid-on-car-paint/

Regardless of how many layers of protective wax on your vehicle or how careful you are, if you spill brake fluid on your car’s paint, the fluid can cause the paint to instantaneously discolor and begin flaking off. This damage can happen within minutes and cause irreparable damage to a vehicle’s paint job. Newer vehicles with a clear coat over the paint are somewhat more protected, but if the brake fluid is not attended to immediately, the damage can become much more severe.

 

Perhaps this is why brake fluid was not tested or recommended.

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)
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