Consider your Estate Planning!!!

[nick8086]

http://www.wndu.com/content/news/Classic-Cars-in-Shipshewana-may-have-to-be-sold-off-430013343.html

 

 

 

Shipshewana now has a month to save a $4 million car collection.

 

Estate Planning -- I talked about this before..

 

 

[auburnseeker]

I think it's more town planning than estate planning.   It's tough to fix politics. 

[gwells]

More recent info on this situation:

 

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/08/18/threatened-with-closure-committee-working-to-save-hostetlers-hudson-museum/

[CarNucopia]

I have to agree this is an estate planning issue. Giving the cars away is not enough, you have to put in place the resources and structure to ensure your vision is carried out.

 

There's a very good documentary on the topic called "The Art of the Steal" about the Barnes art collection and how it was "stolen" despite what seemed like good planning. 

 

You can see the trailer here: http://www.imdb.com/videoplayer/vi852362265

 

And the entire movie: 

 

[nick8086]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brian_w_austin/sets/72157675329039283

 

I found this on line..

[Guest]

This is a pretty nice collection. It would be a shame to break it up.

[nick8086]

The car title is the key. It show who owns it.. He could of added his kid.. Before he pasted..

tenants in common. - 50 % owner or 20 % owner..
joints tenants with wros.

 

 

Your will or trust will not override what is named in the beneficiary designation on a life insurance policy, annuity, or retirement account (like an IRA or 401(k) plan). The beneficiary designation takes precedence, or as one poker player put it "the beneficiary designation trumps the will".

 

 

I have 9 cars.. in my name only.. I could add  Bob the guy down street . with wros.. My wife  would have no say, I got them before I got married..

I think Neb. has a law if you are married for 10 or more years.. It is common property..  But read the quote above..

 

We spent 8500.00 to clean up a 14.00 title .. Change..

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

On my way home from the Auburn auction today, I stopped to see the Hostetler museum. For a die-hard car guy who likes pre-war cars, it was worth the visit. Mr. Hostetler had some very nice cars and the museum has to be the only place you can see the evolution of Hudson in detail. I also stopped at the Studebaker museum in South Bend, so I have a little comparision of what $8 gets you in the way of a museum experience. I can see why they are only bringing in $25K a year. For the non-car folks, its probably a yawn whereas the Studebaker museum leaves you feeling like you've gained a little nugget of history.

 

With regards to it's current situation, it does seem like the town hasn't handled the situation well. Looking at the property, I'd guess the bulk of the money was spent on the half of the building that has nothing to do with the collection.  If they can't figure out a way to keep the museum open, the least they should do is donate the collection to the Gilmore (a place Hostetler had a connection with). If the city were to auction the collection, in my opinion, I don't see how it's anything but a money grab. Frankly, I think it would be a better outcome to have pros try raising funds for a Hudson building at the Gilmore. Better that, then to have the collection languish where few people will see it. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Buick64C (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

Is it possible to change the title of this tread? The story is a cautionary tail other people with collections should hear. No offense intended to the OP, but the current title isn't exactly click-bait.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Buick64C (see edit history)

[nick8086]

What is the Hudsons  club doing to help them?? 

 

That is a great collection..

 

http://www.gilmorecarmuseum.org/eldon-hostetler-noted-hudson-automobile-collector-inventor-philanthropist-dies-93/

 

The more I read,, the family and the hobby - lasted two years,, ??

 

 This  is sad,,

Edited September 3, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[R Walling]

 If the collection was to be sold and split up, would not more people be able to see the individual cars and appreciate them across the country, rather them being kept in an unadvertised museum?

 

 When I show my Essex, people ask me who made it. When I say Hudson, they ask well, who made Hudsons? At least now, a few people in my area know about them.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Roger Walling (see edit history)

[nick8086]

15 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

 If the collection was to be sold and split up, would not more people be able to see the individual cars and appreciate them across the country, rather them being kept in an unadvertised museum?

 

 When I show my Essex, people ask me who made it. When I say Hudson, they ask well, who made Hudsons? At least now, a few people in my area know about them.

 

If the collection was to be sold and split up, would not more people be able to see the individual cars and appreciate them across the country, rather them being kept in an unadvertised museum?  - Not sure on this one..  It is a yes maybe  or No.. They just park them.. Never to be seen again.. 

 

 

[Buffalowed Bill]

Five years ago I was through the collection and very impressed! Collection is a treasure trove of the style that allowed Hudson to survive the Depression. The independents that survived the 30's had to be doing something right, and the museum really highlights why Hudson was one of them.

 

Tried to go through it in May after the International Studebaker meet in South Bend, but I forgot that everything would be closed, in Amish country, on Sunday. It's hard to imagine a more out of the way place, or a less hospitable location for the museum's survival!

[mercer09]

article is confusing-Innkeeper tax has been removed? if that's the case, then they should be better off...................

[CarNucopia]

7 hours ago, mercer09 said:

article is confusing-Innkeeper tax has been removed? if that's the case, then they should be better off...................

 

The innkeeper tax was removed and subsequently reinstated. Apparently, the county removed it when the bonds that financed the Center were paid off. Turns out, the bonds were paid off by new bonds that have a lower rate. This means the tax is still justified. 

 

What I'm not clear on is how the city can justify selling the collection and keeping the money. Hostetler donated $4M worth of cars. But, he also donated a $500,000 parcel of land and created a $500,000 endowment to care for the cars. If I'm reading the articles right, the city spent $8M on the building and then sold it later for $2.4M. It would not suprise me (though this is a guess) if much of the money they claim they need to spend to keep the collection is for paying rent to the folks they sold the building to. If they can't afford to maintain the cars, they need to find a home for them as a complete collection. Offering the two options of keeping the museum open or selling the collection seems like a false choice. 

[alsancle]

On 9/2/2017 at 11:21 PM, Buick64C said:

Is it possible to change the title of this tread? The story is a cautionary tail other people with collections should hear. No offense intended to the OP, but the current title isn't exactly click-bait.

 

General forum etiquette is to use titles that give people an idea of the discussion inside.   Always amazing the amount of  "You won't believe this" or "Guess what I did today"  thread titles.  I skip all of them.  I ended up here by pure accident.

[nick8086]

12 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

General forum etiquette is to use titles that give people an idea of the discussion inside.   Always amazing the amount of  "You won't believe this" or "Guess what I did today"  thread titles.  I skip all of them.  I ended up here by pure accident.

I am living this right now.. Just as the son of the Hudson cars..

Edited September 5, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[mercer09]

The Barnes was a royal screw to the original owner. The courts did everything against his wishes.

 

moral of the story, if you make a will, make sure the dispersal comes within a short period of time, say 10 years, so your wishes are granted.

 

otherwise a millennial will be deciding the fate of what you own......................

[nick8086]

Do not have a Bank  Trust dept look after your stuff.. Here is my story.. They did not winterize the old cars.. and they do not trim trees.. 

 

Take a look at the last picture.. not good..  The second picture is the same as the last one.. 

 

Just heads up if you put your stuff in a trust. Your kids may not have rights to it or be on the property. The bank is the new owner, even if you leave the  stuff to your kids..  

 

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, nick8086 said:

Do not have a Bank  Trust dept look after your stuff.. Here is my story.. They did not winterize the old cars.. and they do not trim trees.. 

 

Take a look at the last picture.. not good..  The second picture is the same as the last one.. 

 

Just heads up if you put your stuff in a trust. Your kids may not have rights to it or be on the property. The bank is the new owner, even if you leave the  stuff to your kids..  

 

 

 

Nick,

 

Two thoughts:

 

1.  I was well in to my 40s before I realized that houses, property and cars require constant attention or the earth takes them back.  I'm a slow learner I guess.

 

2. If you are saying trusts are bad.  I agree.   There are usually good intentions behind them, but ultimately you are not doing anybody any favors.  I understand the need with minor children,  but once they are adults best to give them the assets and let the chips fall where they may.

 

Without being too inflammatory, the people I know with trusts seem to be dinks.    The steady cash flow takes away the motivation to step up and work your ass off.

 

 

[60FlatTop]

I had a dream that I was lying on my death bed and hear one of my kids comment on a tear that rolled from the corner of my eye.

One said they thought it was for all the things I had never said or done.

My Wife said it was a tear of happiness for the good things I had done without recognition.

I tried to nod to my Daughter, she knew. I had just slid my hand into my pocket and found my last dollar and knew I wouldn't be able to spend it.

Bernie

[nick8086]

It is sad to charge 1% and 10 % to mismanagement an estate . even if it not your stuff yet.. The funny thing is that the poa may be on the hook for the damage.. 

 

Before picture..

[nick8086]

If you are saying trusts are bad.  I agree. . They third party all this stuff  They do no have the resources to review  what was done..By law they did everything to make it happen..

[nick8086]

I love to do the work.. It took me 30 min to trim that stuff..

[rustybottom]

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 4:22 AM, nick8086 said:

Do not have a Bank  Trust dept look after your stuff.. Here is my story.. They did not winterize the old cars.. and they do not trim trees.. 

 

Take a look at the last picture.. not good..  The second picture is the same as the last one.. 

 

Just heads up if you put your stuff in a trust. Your kids may not have rights to it or be on the property. The bank is the new owner, even if you leave the  stuff to your kids..  

 

 

Nick,

You have started several threads implying your dissatisfaction with the predicament that you are in regarding your late fathers estate.

In particular, I infer that the many cars were not bequeathed to you is troubling, based upon a thread regarding acquiring a "lost" title, among other related threads.

May I suggest that your father was indeed a very smart man in his estate planning.  After all, he had acquired quite a collection of cars, so he had the wealth and knowledge to do just that.

You may not like what he did, but possibly you are living exactly what he had wanted to happen.

[hidden_hunter]

If anyone's estate includes a duesenberg, I'm more than happy to take if off your hands

[victorialynn2]

12 hours ago, rustybottom said:

Nick,

You have started several threads implying your dissatisfaction with the predicament that you are in regarding your late fathers estate.

In particular, I infer that the many cars were not bequeathed to you is troubling, based upon a thread regarding acquiring a "lost" title, among other related threads.

May I suggest that your father was indeed a very smart man in his estate planning.  After all, he had acquired quite a collection of cars, so he had the wealth and knowledge to do just that.

You may not like what he did, but possibly you are living exactly what he had wanted to happen.

Ouch. That's harsh. I can tell you from experience that there is a lot more to dealing with old car or any other estates than anyone could imagine. My father thought he was leaving me his treasures. He didn't account for the red tape he left me. He would not have intentionally caused me the grief I've delt with. 

 

Those of us who harp on estate planning are privy to the troubles no one can predict without expert advice. 

 

Please refrain from judging without knowing the details. (I didn't think this was Facebook after all.) Not trying to be mean, but there are two sides to every story. 

[nick8086]

He was a mechanic in the korean war. Not a lawyer..

 

He did not plan  for:

Family Drama.

alzheimer's

mismanagement

and etc.

 

I had the family attorney tell me I did not get any cars from the estate.. Five years  later I found out my name and his was on the title.. with WROS.. on four cars..

 

My father title them not me..

 

Since the attorney told the estate they owned the cars..I got free JC nn Taylor. on my cars..

 

 

 

PS - Do not forget about the medicare 5 year rule.. This  maybe another topic on estate planning..  

 

and personal representative is only good for 1 year.

 

 

You have to spell out in  your will.. . It is common sense...  Storage, insurances, maintenance  on the cars.. You need to fund the cars also..

 

You can not will a car,, it cost to own it..  Who pays for it??  You give it to a grandson.. Does his parent have the funds to support it..or storage ??

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[mike6024]

Yes that's true. Joint bank accounts, and things with a title that have more than one name on the title do not need to be listed in the will and do not need to go through probate.