Fabric driveshaft universal discs needed

[Dave Young]

Can anyone out there steer me toward a shop that can make new universal discs for the driveshaft of my 1928 Chandler?  It's currently running on wobbly homemade discs which have got to go.  I've given up on the idea of finding NOS, and need to have them custom made.

[46 woodie]

Wilber, is there any way you can post a picture of the discs that you need?

[60FlatTop]

Here is a company local to me that has been very helpful with rubber products over the years. They probably have a source for laminated or solid stock that you can make a proper replacement with.

http://www.websealinc.com/

 

Bernie

[hddennis]

See if this would work: http://www.colletizer.com/store/p72/Universal_Joint_Flex_Disc.html

 

 

Howard Dennis

[ply33]

I've read that the fabric driveshaft discs for the early Plymouths are the same as used on some John Deere tractors. And someplace along the line I read that Rapid CNC in Wisconsin had made some, though I don't see it or any indication they make them on their website.

 

Rapid Cnc 
W2992 Hwy 28 
Sheboygan Falls, WISCONSIN 53085 
Telephone: +1.920.287.2143 
email: r@colletizer.com

http://www.colletizer.com

 

HMMM. Howard found the link on Rapid CNC's website and found it faster than I.

[Dave Young]

I have been in touch with Rapid CNC/ Colletizer.  They sell one flex disc, which the get from an outfit in UK.  No luck with custom thru them either.  I'll try to get a picture posted.  It's surprising that there isn't a go-to source for these parts, as many of the early cars ran flex discs.

[Bud Tierney]

In my earliest years we just cut some from old belting, but they weren't show quality by any means...

Anyone who has an old fan belt catalog, check the back pages for a list; I sold such a catalog several years ago to someone who had a batch of NOS discs, but didn't note who.

As I recall, there were a small number of sizes, and each size fit a batch of cars...

[Bud Tierney]

Found note that then-now-auto.com had a line of flex U-joints for cars etc; note probably 5-6 yrs old, no info on prices.

[PFitz]

Gentlemen,

I make the rubberized fabric rings for Franklins and other early car drive shaft u-joints. Plus, I rebuild the rubberized fabric clutch disc hubs and Franklin cooling fan hubs installed with original sized rivets. Just made a set of 8 for a big Cunningham driveshaft.  All are made on special jigs so that the rings and their mounting holes are concentric and do not throw off the balance of rotating parts. And all are made from reinforced synthetic fabric and rubber to withstand road water, dirt, oil, and grease far better than the original rubber and canvas rings.

 

If I don't already have that size jigs I'd need a good original ring, or crisp tracing of the flanges and bolt holes, or drawing of accurate measurements.  

 

See my ad on the Franklin Club website here.

http://www.franklincar.org/forsale/service.html

 

Paul Fitz

airiscool@frontiernet.net

Edited November 28, 2016 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Dave Young]

I just happen to have some old belt catalogs.  I'll take a look.  Thanks.

[Dave Young]

Paul, I'll gather up the proper information for you.  Do you have a book that would give you the dimensions for a particular model car?

[PFitz]

Bill,

No book that I'm aware of.  

 

And in 30 + years of working with these rubberized fabric rings, I've never heard of them being offered as an aftermarket part, So, they might not somehow be listed in one place, like other parts were. The Cunningham set I just did, the owner was lucky enough to have found one NOS ring and sent it to me. And even though the rubber in it had turned hard and brittle with age, luckily it was found that had not shrunk when it was compared to the drive shaft flanges. I was able to make the jigs by measuring that. Otherwise the best way is to send me a flange, or have a draftsman, or machinist friend measure your car's flange and make a drawing I can work from.

 

All I need to know is, how many rings needed,  the thickness of each ring, the outside diameter of the rings, the diameter of any inner hole, the number of mounting bolt holes, the diameter of the bolt's center line circle, the location on that circle of the bolt holes in degrees, and the diameter of the bolts.

 

Paul

[Spinneyhill]

I have a 1934 New Zealand Motor Spec's catalogue. It lists "Vulcan-Vitalic" universal joint discs by size only, no application. There are about 30 of them. It also lists "Hillman" fabric flexible couplings by application, but no Chandler. Can't have been many of them in the country! Maybe you can get some info. from this?

 

[Dave Young]

Spinnyhill, that page is fantastic!  I think I can pull enough info from there to be very useful.  Thanks. 

[46 woodie]

Give McMaster-Carr a try, they have all sorts of fabric reinforced rubber.

[1939_Buick]

Chandler being a low production car may have used a third party suppler/manufacturer

 

May be of interest

http://www.gmspolymer.co.uk/flexible-couplings.htm

 

http://www.colletizer.com/store/p72/Universal_Joint_Flex_Disc.html

 

Quote

This fabric universal joint coupling disc will fit the following vehicles:   
John Deere 1940 tractor L LA LI,   
Plymouth 1928 1929 1930 Q U and 30-U up to 1561283 US built and all Canadian built,   
Oldsmobile 1924 1925 1926 1927 1929 1930 1931.   
Chrysler 1924 1925 1926 1927 four cylinder models 50 & 52,   
Flint 1924 1925 H40 B40 
Locomobile 1925 Jr 8 
Ajax 1925   

I believe this fabric universal joint disc may fit the following vehicles.   Please check dimensions before ordering.   If you buy without measuring yours first and find that they do not fit just return them for a full refund.   If you know of other years that it fits or if there is an error please help me update this list:   
Maxwell 1924 1925 1926 1927 four cylinder,    
Willys Knight,   
Gray T 1922-1925   
Federal Truck 1924-1931   
Reo 1920-26,   
Nash 1926-29 Light Six, Single Six   
Franklin1919-22 A-B and 1920-21 Series 9,   
Hupmobile 1922,   
Durant late 1921-26 A-22 four cylinder and 1922-24 B-22 six cylinder.  

Edited November 29, 2016 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[ply33]

5 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

I have a 1934 New Zealand Motor Spec's catalogue. It lists "Vulcan-Vitalic" universal joint discs by size only, no application. There are about 30 of them. It also lists "Hillman" fabric flexible couplings by application, but no Chandler. Can't have been many of them in the country! Maybe you can get some info. from this?

 

That trigger a synapse: I just looked in my 1931 Chilton's Multi-Guide. Looks like there were two different sized fabric disks used in 1928 by Chandler. 1928 Big 6 has a Chilton interchange number of QH-5, while the 1928 Royal 8 used a QH-4.

 

The other vehicle that used a QH-4 was a 1927 Chandler Royal 8.

 

The QH-5 was used on 1925 Chandler 33, 1926 Chandler 35, and 1927 Chandler Big 6

 

So if that interchange guide is any indication, the only other cars that used the same fabric disks as the car in question were other year Chandlers. Unfortunately the interchange listing does not give parts dimensions.

[keiser31]

There was a guy on here by the name of Marvribich or something similar to that who had a lot of those discs. Someone else here may have his information.

Edited November 29, 2016 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[C Carl]

I see that Marv is still active here.  mribbich@wi.rr.com  or  362-392-2989.  I hope you are rolling soon.  -  Carl

[PFitz]

Good find on the literature guys. But to be safe, double check the measurements against your drive shaft flanges.

 

1939 Buick, I can tell you that in that second section you listed, those rings will not fit a Franklin. The measurements are all wrong and they list too many years that type u-joint was used on a Franklin. So, I would wonder about the accuracy of the other applications listed.  

 

To others. Beware of NOS rings. Like with old tires, the rubber turns hard with age. The rings will heat up from all the flexing they must do and they will fail - same as an old canvas-cord tire will split.

 

Paul

[Dave Young]

I'd love to have one NOS disc to compare to, but measurements are where it's at.  Paul,  I'm going to put a drawing together this weekend and get it in the mail to you.

 

Thanks,

Dave Young

Mays Landing, NJ

[Dave Young]

Number 84 on that Vulcan Chart provided by Spinnyhill is exactly the right size for my car.  I have two of these Chandlers with the big engine, a 28 and a 29, and they both use the same discs, even though the model designation of the cars is different.  They are identical cars.

[Terry Bond]

A lot of vehicles in the UK used these "fabric couplings" so perhaps that's a good place to begin searching.   My 1935 Morris uses them but they are a lot smaller than what you'd need  I'm sure.  Recommend take a look at this UK site http://www.gmspolymer.co.uk/flexible-couplings.htm. 

this company can also make custom discs to fit about anything.  They purchased original jugs and molds from "Hardy Spicer" which is the common name for that type of coupling.  Let us know how you make out.

Terry

Edited November 29, 2016 by Terry Bond (see edit history)

[PFitz]

7 hours ago, wilbur said:

I'd love to have one NOS disc to compare to, but measurements are where it's at.  Paul,  I'm going to put a drawing together this weekend and get it in the mail to you.

 

Thanks,

Dave Young

Mays Landing, NJ

 

Yes, that would be good to have,....if the NOS hasn't shrunk with age. But, more importantly, you have what any disc HAS to fit - and that's the flanges, which can be very precisely measured.

 

Then the only info needed is how many discs and how thick each disc needs to be to maintain proper total drive shaft length between the flanges. If the discs are too thick, a driveshaft spline may run out of travel if you hit a bump with a car full of passengers. Too thin and there may not be a problem with the spline, but the discs might have to use fewer plies and be weaker for what that application needs. By the way, the modern materials are far stronger than the original rubber and cotton canvas of the same thickness. And oil/grease softening of the natural rubber and wet-rot of the cotton is not a problem like it is with the NOS ones.

 

Dave, please include an email address. It's far easier to send/receive pix and drawings if need be.

 

Paul Fitz

[Dave Young]

Thanks Paul.  I added the email to my profile.  In measuring my old discs, they seem to be 5/16" thick and there are 3 at each end of the drive shaft.  Of course, they are buckled up and pretty ratty, so the 5/16" is only an approximation.  The stack of 3, still mashed together, measures a little less than an inch overall but definitely more than 3/4".  What sizes of material do you have access to?

[PFitz]

17 hours ago, wilbur said:

Thanks Paul.  I added the email to my profile.  In measuring my old discs, they seem to be 5/16" thick and there are 3 at each end of the drive shaft.  Of course, they are buckled up and pretty ratty, so the 5/16" is only an approximation.  The stack of 3, still mashed together, measures a little less than an inch overall but definitely more than 3/4".  What sizes of material do you have access to?

 

Dave,

As long as the thickness and number of discs your Chandler's have allows the driveshaft's splines to move properly with the total potential movement of the rear axle without the splines running out of travel, then that thickness is good. 

 

I can make any fractional inch thickness, or some metric thickness needed, or combinations to make up an odd-ball thickness. The most critical applications for thickness being instances like the Series  9 Franklin mentioned in 1939_Buick's listing above. It has two drive shafts - one is a short one between the engine and the frame-mounted transmission. Use even slightly wrong thickness discs there and the drive shaft will not fit.

 

Paul Fitz