Guest cpmaraziti Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 What is the best outlet to sell titles to old automobiles; EBAY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grumpy's Auto Shop Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I am fairly certain that this is frowned upon by the constabulary pretty much everywhere across the fruited plain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Maybe I'm just old and grumpy or stupid, but what does post #3 have to do with either our hobby or the op question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick8086 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I got it. from post #3 . It is a bad idea... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 It is not illegal to sell titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Selling titles is not against the law. Using a title to register a vehicle by changing the numbers on the vehicle and using the numbers from the purchased title is illegal. I see titles offered at many swap meets and if you go to Hershey you will see them for sale. Most vendors will post a disclaimer sign saying that "titles are not to be used to register a car, for collecting purposes only". There are a couple on E-Bay now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55chevy Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I received one as a gift once, they are called "Historical Documents". I have a few, one from a 70 Nova I parted out, and one from a 66 Mustang Fastback from Florida, when I registered it in Alabama they gave me the title back, as they don't title cars before 1974. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 There's a reason guys charge $500 for an old title for a popular car (say, a '32 Ford roadster or a '34 Ford coupe), and it ain't because it makes neat garage art... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cpmaraziti Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 From what I'm seeing here I'm probably better off donating the titles to auto museums based upon the make of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 re post #5 old and blond but NOW I get post #3. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily rag Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I have some framed titles with photos of the car or ones like it. I also have some framed old stock certificates along pictures of the factory or company head quarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cpmaraziti Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I have some titles to vehicles I've never heard of before: DAF, Humberhawk, Hupmobile, Rehberger, Wartburg, Checker Cab. Maybe I will find picture to match and frame with the titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 I just had to look up some of those cars in a book that I have, thats about 2" thick, and has every car ever made. The DAF was produced in the Netherlands between 1958 and 1975. DAF stands for Van Doornes Automobielfabriek NV. Don't ask me, thats what it states. There is a Humber listed but not a Humberhawk. Hupmobile is common. Rehberger is not listed. There are two listings for Wartburg's one between 1898 and 1904 and the other in 1956. Checkers were the taxi cab of choice in New York City for years. Hard to believe but the book states that there were almost 5000 different brands produced over the years. Quite a collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cpmaraziti Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Thanks for the info. I looked up the Humber Hawk on Google and it lists it as a British car produced from 1945 to 1961. The Rehberger tuned out to be a truck built in Newark NJ from 1923 to 1938; pretty interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 ebay doesnt allow the selling of titles- but they are for sale on there daily.........................huh? Unless your titles are like those Matt mentioned-they dont generally hold great value. I have a collection of close to 4000 and the 32 ford roadster is about the most desired. they bring around a 1000. bucks Fords are the most in demand, followed by chevy and the rest-yawn.............. I do have 2 Duesenberg titles, and they are special to me and will never find another Im sure-but you still have to keep on trying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cpmaraziti Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I do have a 32 Ford Coup Model B, I'm guessing that's not the Roadster. I'm really enjoying looking into the history of some of the cars and how they were extremely popular for a while and then something new comes along and sales drop like a rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 worth a little less then the roadster-still valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cpmaraziti Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Any thoughts on the possible interest of a car museum in old titles? I have about 5,000 of them from my Father-in-Laws junk yard closed down I 1965 for the construction of a NJ highway. Titles date back to the early 20's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 PM sent rdz69@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grumpy's Auto Shop Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 20 hours ago, cpmaraziti said: Any thoughts on the possible interest of a car museum in old titles? I have about 5,000 of them from my Father-in-Laws junk yard closed down I 1965 for the construction of a NJ highway. Titles date back to the early 20's. Wowzers! I had no idea... My earlier remark was based on the fact that in the Great State of oHIo* the laws were recently changed and these changes suggest that... Well, let me put it this way: Somebody needs a bit more bran in their diet. *Round on the ends and high in the middle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 If you pass along vehicle title(s) either by donation or sale - if those title(s) are used to register a vehicle by creating a serial number to match the one on the title - you are potentially liable for civil and/or criminal fraud. The only monetary value a vehicle title has is not as an " historical document " but as an illegal way to register a vehicle that has no title. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cpmaraziti Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Maybe I'll just keep them for myself or possibly destroy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 On 9/30/2016 at 3:34 PM, cpmaraziti said: Any thoughts on the possible interest of a car museum in old titles? I have about 5,000 of them from my Father-in-Laws junk yard closed down I 1965 for the construction of a NJ highway. Titles date back to the early 20's. 1 hour ago, cpmaraziti said: Maybe I'll just keep them for myself or possibly destroy them. Donate them to a museum with the written stipulation they cannot be passed along & used to register vehicles. Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 There is no criminal liability attached to selling a title just like it is not a crime to remove a VIN. It only becomes a criminal act if the title is used to defraud. Same with a VIN. The seller of a title would not be liable unless he were knowingly involved in a conspiracy to defraud. Titles are sold all the time and they do sometimes have value aside from the obvious. Personally I would love to own a Duesenberg title if only for the conversational value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cpmaraziti Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 I think it's time for me to talk to my attorney on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Posted 39 minutes ago · Report post There is no criminal liability attached to selling a title just like it is not a crime to remove a VIN. It only becomes a criminal act if the title is used to defraud. Same with a VIN. The seller of a title would not be liable unless he were knowingly involved in a conspiracy to defraud. Titles are sold all the time and they do sometimes have value aside from the obvious. Personally I would love to own a Duesenberg title if only for the conversational value. x2! I collect them and trade them like baseball cards................... nothing illegal about it. almost like saying, if you sell a bottle of wine and someone has a car accident and dies, you are responsible-totally ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 mercer09 is absolutely correct. Don't let all these "armchair attorneys" frighten you into believing their nonsense of any liability on your part. There is none. Car titles change hands EVERY SINGLE DAY on eBay. If there was any legal issue eBay would be the first to ban sales. They don't, so you're OK. Good luck with your sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick8086 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Just put them in the safe. gift them to the family.. They would love to see what your family own.. "memories" I think we have a stack also.. I just looked at a box of old stuff.. I kept everything.. I have motorcycles surfing stereo Packard Studebaker Kaiser Buick Mopar Baseball cards.. Postcards.. Stuff and etc.. I Never got rid of any thing.. Edited October 3, 2016 by nick8086 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I operate a major swap meet event in Ohio. A few years ago the county auditor from this area stopped by to walk through our event, because he likes old cars. Soon I saw on-duty sheriff deputy cruisers pulling in, and learned that they were there to seize titles from a vendor who was selling them, at the specific orders of the auditor. The auditor told me it was strictly illegal to sell titles, but the vendor protested that it was perfectly legal, as long as they were being sold for collector purposes. After a few days, the titles had been returned to the vendor, and he had them back up for sale at our next event. The auditor doesn't like it, and says it shouldn't be allowed, but there is nothing he can do about it...as long as they are being sold as collectibles. Finally, ANY time ANYONE does anything with the intent to defraud someone else, they are subject to prosecution from the law. IF someone takes a title and uses it to misrepresent a car's identity or authentic ownership, he or she will certainly face criminal prosecution if they are caught. The key is committing fraud, or conspiring to commit fraud, as I understand it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Many titles for sale at Hershey this week...................... Hmm wonder where all the authorities are? shouldnt everyone be arrested and put in jail.....................? yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Whether it is right or wrong, good or bad. It puts you (the seller) in the chain of events. It is not that the seller is up to no good, but if a few different buyers use them for ill purposes. The seller can get wrapped up in the chain of events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I like the story about the auditor and the cruisers; out there saving the world from evil. Were caffeine and doughnut sugar contributors to this incident? I bought my Mother a car that had two of the title numbers transposed and asked a couple of friends to take it down to the Daley Plaza DMV and get it fixed. The game warden overheard and called it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjay Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 The problem is it makes it difficult for many activities in order to prevent fraudulent activities. Juggling titles and VIN to turn a generic car into something more valuable should not be allowed. However, there should be a way for someone who spends many years collecting parts to be able to put them together and be able to enjoy it on the road. From what I know about a reconstructed title is you need titles and receipts for significant donors in order to apply for a special title. For many reasons, that is not always possible as the time passes unless you knew from the beginning that was your goal and keep good records. There should be a special class of reconstructed titles that provides a process of building a vehicle from parts and not necessarily one that matches anything original. Of course a reconstructed title has a negative effect on value and that is the key. These titles would clearly indicate that the subject vehicle has no value except what the seller and buyer agree upon. The title also declares that the subject vehicle meets the vehicle requirements of a certain age. I'm not familiar with PA Hot Rod registration, does it allow building your own car or do you need to start with a valid original title and VIN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) The whole point behind all this title madness, is the government's attempts to stop (or at least reduce) car theft. We've all heard about "chop shops" and other fraudulent operations which deal in stolen cars and/or parts. Many of these places steal cars, then alter VIN's and/or titles, and resell them in another state. And surely NO ONE cares more about clamping down on car thieves than people like all of us, who love cars. The trouble comes in when laws which were intended to hinder criminal activity bring unfair restrictions to prudent citizens who are merely trying to pursue a legitimate hobby. I am an involved member of SEMA, and I have met with government officials on more than one occasion to try and get them to enact legislation which is friendly to car collecting, and to NOT support new bills which make it rough for car folks. Once I even testified before the Ohio Congressional Transportation Committee, regarding titles and registrations of collector vehicles. The representatives that were on that committee that day were very surprised to learn that the car hobby is so large, and that the industry which supports and supplies the hobby employs so many people right here in Ohio. They had no idea that some of the laws here in Ohio are MUCH tougher on car collectors than they are on car thieves. They seemed like nice and intelligent people, but they knew NOTHING about us, and our wants and needs as legitimate citizens pursuing appropriate hobbies. If you belong to a car club, insist that your car club join SEMA's SAN (SEMA ACTION NETWORK). That way your club will be constantly updated on new legislation being proposed or voted upon in your state. Then, write letters, make phone calls, and VOTE for people who will support the old car hobby. Edited October 7, 2016 by lump (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I am glad to hear lump, that you are involved in making the car world a better place. I think we all try to make it a better place. (if you really care about the cars) But as I read your post, I have to wonder, if sh*# rolls down hill. And money flows up hill, how could all those fraudulent operations stay a float? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 LOL. Well, Xander, I appreciate your kind words. But as for your last question, I must admit that I have no idea what you meant. Sorry. But I can say this. There is a massive, eager and ready market for buying almost ANYTHING under its normal value. And when car which has been stolen (zero cost to the thief), is either parted out or re-titled and sold at a bargain used-car price, lots of illegal profits are made. And wherever illegal profits are available, there are plenty of unscrupulous people who will try to cash in. Ummm...is that a relevant response to your question? Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) About 10 years ago I went to look at two Shelby Mustangs for sale that were theft recovery. They both had their ownership changed but somehow they were identified and recovered. They were both from Quebec so that is a given that you have to be very carful on what you buy that comes from there. If you go to an Impact Auction and if they sell a burned out hulk generally it goes to Quebec probably for the title. Edited October 7, 2016 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 lump, I was just throwing out a comment, playing off of the chop shop comment you made. When you think chop shop, a dim lit building with a bunch of stripped down cars comes to mind. Something that would be easy to spot. If you had a fraudulent town/city, I am sure fraudulent shops would be in high numbers. That is what was the comment was about. I do thank you for any work you do, to make the trade/hobby/industry a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Granted that some state title laws encourage title fraud and there are a number of people looking to title their barn find beauty that will go the easy and sometimes only route to title and purchase the vin plate and title from someone else’s stripped to nothing parts car. But the boys and girls in the business of stealing big money cars for resale don’t shop car shows and ebay for used titles, they get fresh clean blanks from someone at the state, or the printer that makes them for the state. Some old car titles are valuable for historical or social reasons. They are collectible and have differing values for different people, for reasons that sometimes confuse my sense of understanding. The boys and girls in the business of stealing big money classics have different title needs than the new car crooks and they shop for old titles. In this dollar range they usually have an old school forger and all they need is the 20 year old piece of paper that was a title, to make a title that can be transferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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