1960 MGA Restoration

[hursst]

Jeff, I think spreading this unpleasant work out in small chunks seems to be working.  Minimal effort, but consistent progress.  

 

Got in another hour today, I think I can consistently get at least some time 4 of 5 weekdays now.  Today, I switched over to the other side of the front cowl shelf.  This area only had one section with welding and leading, but it was fairly large.  In this area, water or condensation pooled at a low spot and severely pitted and rusted out the far corner.  The metal is fairly thin in some of this area with the heavy pitting, but I think it will be fine, as much of it rests on the upper chassis and it's very structural.  I think if the car would have sat in the barn for an additional 2 years, this panel would have had to have been replaced, or at least a good chunk of it.

 

I cleaned up the area around the leading, sanded the entire left half of this panel further to get more of the green primer cleared out, thoroughly cleaned it, and hit it with more rust inhibitor.  I then hit the entire left half with a layer of filler, which should take care of the pitting (Photo 1).  I'll do the same to the right side the next day I get, then I'll finish the rust-inhibited areas last, to give them plenty of extra time to dry out.  Should sand down fairly easily since it's a flat panel.

[hursst]

Had extra time available today, but go too hot and I started sweating over everything, so only got a little over an hour.  Was able to finish sanding down to (mostly) bare metal, clean it all up, and apply filler to both the driver's side and passenger side of the front cowl shelf.  Did some sanding in the middle so far, still have more to go (Photos 1 & 2).  A little awkward, having to reach in from the sides to do the sanding, but doable.  Turning out better than I thought so far, but will require a little touch-up and detailing to make it look really nice.

 

I think I can get going on the primer on  the outer panels Saturday morning, should be in the 70's or low 80's if I can get some things done before about 10am, then it does up to about 89.

[hursst]

Today, got another hour+ in.  Mostly finished sanding, filling, and sanding again of the front cowl shelf (Photo 1).  Had to make a smooth transition between the leading and the heavily-pitted panel, the leading being a little higher than the panel.  The panel needs a little extra "height", plus this panel is quite thin anyway and "oil cans" when you push it in certain places, so a little extra filler should help it out.  Most of this will be rectified when it's bolted to the chassis.  Turned out pretty nice so far, but still have some details to smooth out.  It's also only sanded to 40 or 80 grit, so needs more fine-tuning before it's ready for primer.  Here's a photo from 2016, right after I bought it (Photo 2), to show where it started and to show how much junk is on the panel, which gives me a lot of latitude  if everything isn't quite perfect.

 

Tomorrow AM, I will try to get most of all the external panels in 3-4 coats of primer, so I can then do a final round of sanding and have them ready for a final test-fit, then paint.

[keiser31]

Fantastic work!

[hursst]

Got up about 0530 this morning and it was wet from the rain last night, hot, and humidity was about 136%, so no way I could even open the garage door, as bare steel would flash rust in about 5 seconds, not to mention everything would be covered in condensation.  Waited until about 9am and things were looking much better, although a little hot, and a little too much humidity, but not bad.  I was able to spray all four fenders, but had to stop after that, it was getting too hot and the sprayer was drying out too fast and spraying poorly (Photos 1 & 2).

 

Now with more primer on them, I see that overall, they are in really great shape, overall contours are excellent and no major problems.  However, there a lot a of minor problems, like pin holes, some deep scratches, some filler on the edges that isn't quite feathered in, some "dusty" primer that got applied a little later when things got too hot, and some big differences in the look of the primer based on whether it was applied to bare metal or filler.  I think this will sand out okay, but it may need a few more layers of primer after a round of sanding to really build it up.  The pinholes and scratches should easily go away with some glazing putty, and a little more sanding in certain areas should clean up some sloppy areas of filler.  Other than that, I'm hoping a few rounds with guide coat and some sanding down to 400 grit should clean everything up nice and smooth.

 

Too hot today to continue.  93 degrees and high humidity, it's just too oppressive to even be out there now.  Ended up taking a drive in some of my other cars today.

 

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Looking good.  A few heavy coats of primer and sand it back to get it flat and smooth.  You will be painting soon.

[hursst]

Today turned out really well.  Started out very wet, but mostly dried up and stayed cloudy, so had a nice window mid-day to finish priming the rest of the pieces (Photo 1).  Didn't break 80 until noon, then went up to about 92, when the sun came out.

 

Wanted to keep going with this momentum, so ended up sanding all four fenders over the last two days.  They all look great, with no major issues, I'm actually a little surprised.  They will all need another 3-4 coats of primer as I had to sand thru to bare metal in a couple spots and around many of the edges, in order to get everything very flat.  Sanded all fenders out with 220 grit; plan on going to 400 grit as the final sanding.  Hoping that one more round will allow me to carefully sand down to 400 grit without breaking thru the primer.  Will probably just stay away from the edges at this point and just hit them with some very light sanding so I don't sand thru any more.

 

The panels I sprayed today have already been thru multiple rounds of primer and are already very straight, so I'm hoping to do only a final careful sanding to 400 grit.

 

I should be able to blow thru the body very quickly, as most of it is already ready for paint (areas that can't be seen and don't need perfection).  The trunk, front cowl shelf, and front header shelf just need a quick touchup with maybe 180 grit, and they are ready for primer as well.  They will definitely need additional rounds of primer, as I know there will be a LOT of gremlins with all the repair work I had to do in these areas.  

 

I will start buying some equipment to make a de facto paint booth when I go to Carlisle and Hershey next month.  I may be able to start painting before the end of the year, but if I do, it will be a test run, as some of you have suggested, with some panels that won't really be seen.  Will probably have to wait until spring before the weather is nice enough to do any real painting.

 

Can't wait for Hershey.  after not having it in 2020, it's going to be a big deal for me this year.  Will probably break the bank buying junk!  Let's hope they don't have to cancel it because of this damn Delta variant.  So far so good.  Hope to see some of you there.  I'll be the guy walking all 25 miles, or whatever it is.

 

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Looks good so far.  When you sand don't use too much pressure or all you will be dong is sanding and spraying and that can get costly quick not to mention wasting your time.  

[MjSieler]

Hello Hurst,

Found a discussion page about using an aluminum impregnated compound instead of leading. Thought it might come in handy for you. The author of this MGA restoration with a twist is doing some interesting work in the power train and body work areas.

https://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,3898051,4391186#msg-4391186

[hursst]

Thanks for the post.  Didn't know aluminum-impregnated compound was a thing.  I'll keep it in mind, but I think all the leading for my car is finished.

[hursst]

Today I attacked the passenger side door and boot lid.  Unfortunately, the door appears to have a lot of areas with air bubbles in the primer, which was the result of when I first learned how to use the sprayer and I was producing silly string and a lot of very dry primer.  I had to sand everything down quite a bit, yet again, to try to sand thru the air bubbles.  I think I got it sanded down low enough, so I'll have to try again.  I guess it's all part of lessons learned during this process.  

 

I moved on to the trunk lid, where I had a similar problem, but most of it was towards the top, so it sanded down fairly easily.  I think I've been spraying in too much heat, maybe not mixing the primer thin enough (although I followed instructions and added a little more reducer to try to solve the problem), and the primer is drying in the sprayer slowly, and I'm getting a weaker spray as I go along.  No huge deal, but will be some extra work and more wasted primer.

 

Anyway, the trunk lid came out great.  I sanded it down to 400 grit with no sand-thru to bare metal or filler (Photo 1).  I'm going to take it to my bodywork mentor Thursday to get a thorough professional analysis of my work.  I think it turned out just about perfectly, but I'm still an amateur, so not sure yet.  I think it will get a thumbs up and then it will be ready for paint.

 

Will be switching jobs soon, so taking 9-days off in between,  3-4 of which I'll be able to stay home, so I plan on continuing to sand, spray primer, sand, and hopefully get all of the exterior panels ready for paint.

[Zimm63]

On 8/22/2021 at 11:50 AM, hursst said:

I am using a Devilbiss kit with two spray guns that I bought from Eastwood.

Turbine?  I have old style guns running off regular air at about 30-50 psi.  Looking for a solution with less overspray.  

[Luv2Wrench]

I had issues with dry primer and SPI recommend their urethane retarder which worked great.  Adding reducer did not work for me and I kinda feel like it made it worse.  They recommended it for over 80 degrees. They also said if I didn't get the retarder to mix less and shoot faster.

[hursst]

Today was just about a perfect day, weather-wise.  78 degrees, sunny, and very low humidity.  Perfect day to try applying primer again.  I was able to get home from work early and hit all the panels one more time, except the boot lid, which is finished.  This time, I got a flawless application down.  Nice and smooth, uniform texture, it worked like I thought it should work.  I think I was spraying earlier in too much heat, which was giving me a much "drier" spray.  I don't know if humidity has much to do with it, I've heard both angles, but it definitely cuts down on the heat.  Thanks for the tip, Jeff, but I think it's more user error on my part, not a problem with the products themselves.

 

I think I'll be able to sand all these panels with 400 grit and have no problems from here on out.  I'm sure I'll find a few more small flaws, but now it should just be touch up and not re-spraying entire panels.  Once the panels are sanded and finished, it will be time to assemble everything again and see where I stand with panel alignment.  I should be in pretty good shape as I think I got most of the bugs out last time.  My only concern is that the chassis mount holes for the center of the car are about 3/8" off on both sides, as I think the body stretched a little width-wise whilst removing the body, moving the body, and everything else, as I did not put any supports in width-wise, only length-wise, which I should have done, in hindsight.  Should be pretty easy to flex back into place, but body will have to be off the chassis to make sure it is a little wide and not just hanging up on something, and to make sure I can get it back to the correct dimensions.

 

No photos, as it's just more of the same with the body panels.

[John S.]

hursst, your work on the M.G. is really coming along nicely.  Great restoration.

[hursst]

Quick update for today, got the doors sanded and most of the rear driver's side fender sanded to 400 grit.  As expected, I found a few small nicks and sanded thru to bare metal in a few small spots around the edges.  The doors will just require a few quick touch ups in the problem areas, not a full respray.  Hoping to have all the panels sanded, touched-up, re-sanded and done by the end of the week, although it may be tough, as I'm going to be quite busy catching up on many other things while I have the week off.

[hursst]

Well, no chance I'll have anything finished by the end of the week, went back in time this week.  Took my driver's side door to my friend to get evaluated.  He said overall, really good work, but he found 3 relatively minor problem areas, towards the top of the door.  I could tell the areas he was taking about after he pointed them out, but I missed them originally.  

 

Resanded with more guide coat to see exactly what I was dealing with, put in some more filler and sanded, but of course, I ended up chasing low spots for multiple rounds.  I went back to finish my driver's front fender, and now with a better education on what "perfect" is from my friend.  I noticed some moderate problems at the bottom of the fender, where I welded in the patch panel.  Not terrible, but required a lot more filler, as there was a gentle valley in the lower middle of the door.  Had to do some hammering of high spots around the edges, which helped a little, but generally, had to redo the entire lower 1/4 of the fender.  

 

Went over the other door with the same procedure, and I thought the door looked and felt really good, so moving on.  Will repeat the process with all the other panels and take a closer look.  I thought I had this skill pretty well down, but I need to work on it a little more, I'm not there yet.  Will probably re-apply guide coat again to the panels I think are ready for paint and check them again, as they were probably okay at first glance, but at second glance, they will most likely need some more work.  Most panels will need a lot more primer, too, and probably another round or two of sanding and priming before I get it right.  After all is said and done, I'll get a total evaluation of the body from my friend, which will undoubtedly result in some more work, but I think I can get really close, knowing what I know now.

 

This will set me back quite a bit of time, but oh well, as much as I want this car finished, I don't really have a time agenda, so it takes what it takes.

 

Cheers,

Chris

[Luv2Wrench]

While frustrating, it is a lot cheaper than painting the car multiple times which is basically what I ended up doing.   I don't really think there's any way around it.  You can't see what you can't see.  You need someone to show you what you can't see and/or paint the dang thing and then have to paint it again (and possibly again).    I think my biggest lesson learned was that little "hope" you have that some area will be OK or it won't be that noticeable is just yourself being tired and trying to ignore the obvious.   Having your friend go over it is a great help and in the long run it will save you a lot of time and money. 

[hursst]

Haven't had much time recently, but still forcing myself to get out there when I'm home. Having a really rough time at it, as I'm now finding multiple small imperfections that need to be redone, based on the education I got from my friend on these panels.  I seem to be having problems mostly at the edges of the panels where rubbing my hand up vertically will reveal some low/high spots.  I've had to redo portion of almost every panel, quite a few times, to try to get a nice smooth feel to it.  Chasing a lot of low and high spots, requiring multiple applications of filler.  (Photos 1-4)  Not going very well, having to repeat a lot of work, but pressing ahead none the less.  Trying to find and fix these issues, then respray most of the panels, yet again, with primer, and hoping for the best.  Really hoping I can get these panels finished before the cold weather sets in, when I can't do much of anything and will have to wait until spring. 

 

Very frustrated, but I know the only way to do this is to do it right, so it will have to just continue until it's right.  Started a new job this week, so time is now at a premium based on my work schedule and other responsibilities.  

[STEVE POLLARD]

2 hours ago, hursst said:

Very frustrated, but I know the only way to do this is to do it right, so it will have to just continue until it's right

Chris - I give you a lot of credit, I know that feeling of frustration.... once done, it's going to be perfect !  Not to side track from your thread, but my first restoration took 14 years and I didn't even paint it ( stripping, filler, sanding, primer, collecting parts, etc.... ) but, it turned out beautiful, now it's in a collection out in Ohio.... Your 1960 MGA will be beautiful once completed !!

 

Steve

[Luv2Wrench]

You'll get it right and then you'll be able to enjoy it forever.   If not too inconvenient you might paint a small panel just to go through the process and see the results.    I mentioned this before but the edges... oh my goodness the edges... lol, make sure those edges are smooth and no high spots on the edge.  If you have a sharp edge and/or it is high you'll sand through it in a heart beat when wet sanded and/or buffing.   I think I had one trouble are that wasn't on an edge, everything else was right around an edge.

[hursst]

Have been unbelievably busy over the last few weeks.  Maybe got a total of 2 hours with the MGA over the last 3 weeks.  Anyway, I finished re-reviewing and doing more work on all the panels.  They are mostly ready for primer again, but hoping I can find some time and some warm enough weather to get one more round in before it gets too cold.  No photos, as it's just more of the same.

 

Taking a lot of time off for Hershey, which will be great, but there will be no time for the MG.

[Charlie Allen]

Car looks great!

[hursst]

Haven't posted in a while.  Have had almost zero time.  The time I have had has been counter productive.  Having a lot of trouble with the primer on the body panels.  Just when I think I have the sprayer dialed in, I have another problem.  Lately, all I can spray is a nice full coat, but with way too much air, which is creating a rougher texture and a lot of small craters, for lack of a better term. Had to switch out some of the internals of the sprayer, went to a bigger aperture that is more appropriate for primer.  By the time I get it sanded smooth with 400 grit, I'm back down to the first layer of primer, and sanding thru to bare metal in a few spots.  I'm wasting an unbelievable amount of primer, money, and time.  

 

I'll have to pause and try to do some practice runs and see if I can figure out why I can't spray a good, smooth pattern.  Very frustrated, I've basically taken a step back over the last two months.  Also frustrated at the lack of time I have; I'm lucky to get in 2 hours a week at this point due to slightly different work hours and just too much going on, especially with repairs and maintenance with my OTHER collector cars.  I'll have to push thru this, but I don't see the car being finished anytime soon.  I think I can get it figured out, I'll just need more time, plus, I'm up against cold weather, so the spraying season is almost over.  Maybe best to take a breather when the cold weather starts, and try again in the spring, when, hopefully, I will be retired, then I'll have a LOT more time.  I'm building up the supplies for the "paint booth" I will make in the meantime.  I'll also get some further expert advice from my friend who's painted many cars as part of various restorations.

 

Hopefully, my next post will be a lot more positive.

[Mike Macartney]

Hang in there - it can only get better! Most of us have hit low periods in our restorations.

[Luv2Wrench]

I had similar issues.  I made a lot of changes that all helped a little.  I went with a 2.2mm tip, "removed" the pressure regulator at the gun, dialed the pressure back to 22psi, added 10% reducer to primer, opened flow to 2.5 turns.   The bigger tip helped for sure, but I think "removing" the pressure regulator from the gun and reducing the overall air pressure helped the most. I didn't physically remove the pressure regulator, rather I opened it to full open position.  There is a gauge on the regulator and with the trigger pulled I set the desired pressure at the wall rather than with the regulator on the gun.  I read that the regulators on the guns are not true regulators but pinch valves that while they reduce pressure they greatly reduce air flow.   You need a lot of air to get a lot of paint out, if you don't have a lot of air (volume) you end up turning up the pressure and it sprays the paint so thin it can dry before it hits the surface.  I also added some slow reducer to thin it just a tad and slow the dry time.

 

One thing that helped my positivity is to feel blessed that I had a lot of other things to do that got in the way of working on the car.   A complicated life is often the results of a life well lived so you just have to be happy about that and the car will get done when it gets done.

 

[STEVE POLLARD]

11 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

One thing that helped my positivity is to feel blessed that I had a lot of other things to do that got in the way of working on the car.   A complicated life is often the results of a life well lived so you just have to be happy about that and the car will get done when it gets done.

I can relate to this.... I have done nothing with my project in months - after 25 years in this house, got a Home Equity loan and started a lot of over due projects for the house ( siding, deck, breezeway and that new kitchen that the wife has been patiently waiting for ) my goals of getting the car running this year went out the window, and then I went and purchase a vintage truck - I'm a glutton for punishment...LOL

Chris - it will get there, your doing extraordinary work and it keeps me motivated with my own projects !

 

 

Steve 

[hursst]

Thanks Jeff, I will make some adjustments based on your inputs.  I think I can do another small round Saturday (when I'll quickly run out of primer again).

[hursst]

Got in another session of primer for all exterior panels.  Did about 2 coats for each panel.  Hoping that will be enough for me to sand down without sanding thru or sanding too thin.  Spend some time with the sprayer on a junk fender and seem to have gotten it dialed in to "acceptable."  We'll see how it comes out after more sanding.   

[hursst]

Went back to my doors and a front fender today and started sanding.  It seems my last round of primer was better, although the primer is too thin in a few areas and there are one or two small areas of sand-through.  I also finished most of one of the front fenders, which should have some very thick coats or primer at this point.  The sanding seems to be going very well with no sand-through so far.  I may be back on the right track now, but I will still have a few more small rounds of primer to do to cover the few bare metal spots and the thin primer where I can see a "ghost" of some of the bodywork underneath.

[Laughing Coyote]

Looks good.  Light sanding and you will be fine. Leave more on than you take off.

[hursst]

The extreme busy continues, but finding a little more time on the weekends, recently.  Finished sanding about 90% of the panels after the last round of primer a few weeks ago.  Finding much less problems than before, but still a few problems with a couple low spots, a few high spots, some sanding down to thin primer where I can see some bodywork ghosting, and some sand-thru to bare metal on some of the edges.  Overall, not too bad, I think I can just touch most of these areas up with some more primer on a targeted basis, instead of applying a whole additional round of primer coats.  Still a lot of work to do, but I'm slowly getting there.

[Luv2Wrench]

Sounds like you're doing it right.  I don't think there's much magic involved, you just repeat the process until it is all correct and move on to the next step.  If you have the patience to keep at it you'll have a outstanding result.  There may be talented people that can do it in less time but you'll both end up with the same finish.

 

[hursst]

Thanks Jeff, I think I'm on the right track now, but I'll be one of those "long term" guys.  I have the patience, so I'll just tough it out and hope for the best.

[hursst]

Just getting destroyed between work, other car problems, house maintenance, and other responsibilities.  I'm really hoping I can retire shortly; the current plan is for mid-March, but it will depend on more economic recovery.  I will have virtually unlimited time and I can finish this car within a year, I would think.

 

Did find 1.5 hrs today to leave work early (it was 72 degrees today!) and spray a little touch up primer where I sanded thru.  Seemed to go well.  Was able to spray all the panels except the passenger rear fender, which needs some filler rework due to some imperfections.  Will take advantage of any days that are warm now, so I can keep sanding on the cold days when I can't lay down primer.  

 

Of course, after I finish the detached panels, I'll have to bolt them all on again and see where I stand with gaps and alignment, then it will be time to remove the body from the chassis again and finish primering that.  I think I'm about 95% finished with the bodywork on the main body, so that should be quick, assuming I can get warm enough weather to spray it.

Edited November 21, 2021 by hursst (see edit history)

[hursst]

Found a little time this weekend.  Sanded down the filler work I had to add to the passenger rear fender (Photo 1).  Still needs more sanding at a finer grit, then some more primer.  

 

Moved on to the passenger door and sanded down the extra primer I put on it (Photo 2).  It seems to be ready for paint now, so hung it back on the car in prep for a final panel fit and gap test.  Once I pass this test, I will have to sand all the other sides of these panels to be ready for paint as well.  Since most of these areas will not be seen, it will just be working to the minimum.  

 

At Hershey, I found a set of original side curtains, which are for the correct era and even the correct top color to my car, an amazing find, but I guess I'm not too surprised about finding rare things at Hershey (I mentioned this find in October as well).  Problem was, one of them was missing a cross bar and both are missing the front Perspex panel.  Found repro parts to repair these units.  Before I do the repairs, someone decided to paint the mounting bracketry black, so I have to undo this and paint it the correct tan color (Photos 3 & 4).  These will need a little more work, I was in too much of a hurry to get it painted before dark, plus it's a little too cold for paint.  Should be an easy touch up when it gets warmer.

[STEVE POLLARD]

Looking great Chris.....you probably already mention this,  the light green color on the inner structure of the car, is that a etching primer ?

 

Steve

[hursst]

Steve, Thanks!  Yes, self etching primer.

[hursst]

Still fighting to get even a little time with the MG, but pushing ahead here and there.  Yesterday, was able to sand down the other door and place it on the car.  Now on to sanding the front fenders.

 

 

[hursst]

Got a little time today to work on one of the side curtain frames.  Was able to repaint the metal bracketry in the original tan color (Photo 1).  Turned out nicely, but I have to spend a little time correcting some light overspray and polishing the plastic window.  Next will be installation of the missing front "glass" for this piece.  This other piece will be much more difficult, as I need to weld in the missing middle bracket, cover it with fabric, repaint the brackets tan, and install the missing front "glass" on that unit, too.  This will just be a side project I'll do over time.  

 

Did not have time to do any sanding today.  Had a lot of work to do on my other cars to keep them in good shape.